In this episode
Show notes
Yoga in Mysore, India shaped Vijeth Kumar's entire life, and he sits with Michael to talk about finding his guru, his life as a yoga therapist, and unconditional love and gratitude.
Vijeth talks about his traditional upbringing in Mysore India where practicing yoga daily was part of the routine. He met his guru BNS Iyengar at 14 years old.
He talks about the importance of teachers and gurus. And how the practice of yoga is a gradual journey of being graced by your guru towards awakening. He mentions that service is the donation for the guru.
Vijeth talks about the importance of authenticity and a loving heart as you teach yoga, whether or not you follow the tradition. He describes being a yogi as being one with nature and allowing healing to happen. He says patience is necessary for any mindfulness practice.
Vijeth also discusses unconditional life — something that could sound simple in theory but takes a great amount of work and surrender. He talks about always giving thanks for the present moment, and for all that is.
The IN Movement Podcast was formerly the Going Pro Yoga Podcast — and before that, the Yoga Teacher Evolution Podcast and the Rat Race Rebellion Podcast. Same mission, evolved name.
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Hey there, Before we get started on this week's episode, I would love to ask for your support by reviewing this podcast. We want to share yoga with as many people as possible in this free resource. This podcast is one of the ways that we can do that, and the best way that you can help support us is by giving us a review.
So if you go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever podcast platform you use, Scroll down until you find that star review and then give us some love. Thank you so much, and let's get started with this week's episode. The simple answer is developing more love in life.
Yeah, the more love you feel in your heart, it gives you the strength to surrender to life. So either you can start awakening this divine feeling of love in you or you can step into the mindfulness practices and learn and see how you can hold space for something which is uncomfortable in you.
Welcome to the Going Pro Yoga podcast. If you love yoga as much as I do, then this podcast is for you. We talk all things yoga related for teachers in order to supplement and complement and even support after a 200 hour yoga teacher training.
Or if you've never done a training before, this podcast is all about just learning more about yoga in an authentic way. Together with Paul Tioto and Byron De Marseille, we put together this podcast to provide you with a free resource to learn more about yoga. Whether you want to share yoga or teach yoga or just practice yoga, this podcast is talking all things yoga related. And we're trying to talk from the teacher's perspective and also the students perspective to
make sure we get a full 360 degree angle on what yoga is all about and how it's evolved in the modern world. Welcome to our podcast Hello and welcome back to the Going Pro Yoga podcasts. Michael here. And we have a special guest who I'm very excited to introduce you to. We spoke about him many times and several episodes with Byron. His name is Vijay Kumar.
He is originally from India and he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. But for me, I met the jet a few years ago. Would you like the pen and paper he's signaling to me? So I'm passing in the pen in favor. But I met Vijet a few years ago when I did my first teacher to yoga teacher training and Vijet was the philosophy teacher and this was in 2020.
And since then, Vijet has been involved in a lot of the teacher training is that I've been involved in as a teacher and he brings in his knowledge and experience in some of the teachings that he's learned from India and his experience and just a beautiful soul. So I'm really excited and happy to have you here today for Jeth. So I formally welcome you to the podcast. Welcome.
Thank you. So the Jeth, I have never really told anyone about your story besides what I just mentioned now. So maybe there's an opportunity for you to just mention a little bit about where you're from in India, a little bit of your story, how you came to Bali.
Yeah. And yeah, something like this. Yeah, Thank you for having me here. First of all. And yet to tell a little bit about me is come from Mysore in South India. So Mysore is a very interesting place. It's very rich in culture, tradition, so you get to see people. Going interest to study music or Vedic literature or yoga and at the same time even my family members, they were all into yoga practice.
So I feel very fortunate that I was that kind of environment where practicing yoga daily became routine because everybody else in my family what they were doing it. So I just. Started following them but I think it was when I was 1214 years old, I met my guru who has been as anger who used to teach in a temple.
Did you say BKSI anger? BNSI anger Bnsinger. He's in Mysore and he's also student of Krishnamasharya, so I got. To know about him through my sister because she joined the Sharla first and started going with her. And yeah, I was doing yoga all the time while I was studying also, but never thought I'll take this as a profession. But after my graduation, I needed some time to really think about what I have to do and what I'm passionate about. And the only thing that was
constant was yoga practice. So it is both my family and my guru. They said it's OK if you take time off but continue to do yoga, maybe you can do some proper training. So I looked up and I got myself into doing yoga therapy post graduation.
So again, I was doing it for myself and during those time. I started to see the wonder of yoga while the patients were coming for the different ailments and how yoga was healing them and how grateful they were becoming. And it's very interesting that only when healing is complete that you become passionate about the spiritual journey.
And I was seeing that change in them. And this is really interesting that they continue to inspire me to do my practice. And after that I worked in different places in India and opportunity brought me here to Bali. What opportunity was that?
Well, the school that I'm working currently, they had, they were trying to integrate both Eastern and Western teachers, so they came to Rishikesh while I was teaching there to look for. Features that they can bring here to Bali. We had a conversation, but I was not really sure that I was going to come here.
At least that time in my life where I was actually looking for where I should go and life pointed me towards Bali. Yeah. And you're still here? Yeah. So how long ago was that? I think I came when you first came. I came in 2018 for a couple of months but.
Since 2019, I'm here beautiful. Thank you for that little back story. I have a couple questions that came up for me. So before I get into those, I should probably get another piece of pen and paper so I don't forget all my questions. But the one thing that came up was just when you mentioned in the East and the West desire to kind of blend together to to do teacher trainings.
And you know, you being a strong part of that East and the conversation of the current status of going through what we call yoga teacher training, 200 hour training or being certified as a yoga teacher. And you know what it was like before or what some of the experiences were like before.
And I don't know much of what it was like. I've never been to India before, but I've heard stories where, you know, to go through the process of becoming a yoga teacher and you can totally correct me if I'm wrong, but spending a lot of time in an ashram with a teacher.
And, you know, it's kind of like the somewhat of The Karate Kid story where you're doing lots of chores and you're kind of paying homage to your teachers and you're doing this for years, years. I don't know if it's like 1015 years or something like this. And you know you're learning as you're moving through and you're getting all these experience and teachings and lessons and all this stuff and then at some point in time it's you know you're considered I guess a yoga
teacher. I'm not sure how that works versus in the Western world or at least what is currently happening is within a 21 day period, 23 day period depending on the school, you know you can go through the process of being a certified yoga teacher which obviously has a lot of the the Western kind of touch to allowing that to be.
So, yeah, is do you have any thoughts on that or anything to speak out about with regards to first of all, correct me if I'm wrong with any of the how it works or what it's like to go through that process of kind of studying yoga in India and different places or at least what it used to be like maybe?
Yeah, definitely. It's, you see, the very understanding of when student relationship is very important to understand before we. Meet our guru. We are lost. We are going around and we know that we have issues and problems, traumas, everything, but we are not able to find a way to resolve them.
So we are eagerly looking for something and when you understand that things that are you are going through you cannot handle on your own, you need a support system, you need guidance and. When you reach to that place in your life and it is very interesting that if you can come to that place where I need help, I need guidance.
I think you have activated the guru element in your life, right. You're calling for guidance and guidance comes from the element of guru. Yeah, everything is teaching you but we are not receptive about it. So in India when you are in this state and. You get there.
It takes in our life experience. Eventually we all will get there and guru shows up and when you see that okay, this is the person who is going to help me throughout life. You just be with them. They become your family. Your guru becomes everything to your mother, father, brother, sister. You just see the whole world through him, and that's why the relationship between a teacher and a student is for. Not only this lifetime for many lives, right? There has been many instances
where yogis have went on studying with the gurus in different lives with the same guru. You know the one who is really enlightened and he is in the astrod farm and there are many yogis that still you can channel them and they can guide you. So it is more like the practice of yoga is to. Be receptive of this guru's grace and allow yourself to be awakened because that's why it's a very gradual and very organic kind of journey.
But there is no rush and you are in the presence of a guru where with the love that he is giving to you, the healing that he's giving to you, you're simply lost. You're not thinking about shall I become a your teacher? Also, you just want to be a student forever.
And once the healing is done and they see that you have come to a place where you have something to share and the guru recognizes that okay. Now you don't like very good in a very good place. I think you can continue to learn from me. You don't have to be around me all the time. Now you can go and share what you have and keep come visit, visit me anytime.
I'm always available to you. So it is more like. Guru trying to like he's seeing that whether his teaching has become alive in him and then when he notices that he used to give the signal like now you can go and share and again student who is going there to share is only doing it to service the Guru. He's not going there to consider this as a profession and be successful in it that he'll become a great master or something.
He's just there because he says like there should be an exchange. Guru is giving you something and what you can offer to him is that you go and help do the service. Service is the donation for a guru and that is the eastern perspective.
It's like a kind of a spiritual journey and when I see that 21 days teacher training and there is, it is different. You give techniques. You share the knowledge. You don't wait for the awakening. You have the tools that has to integrate in you and if it becomes alive in you, then even if you don't want to share, sharing happens, you end up becoming a teacher.
So at least for the people who is in the West, who are not aware of the tradition and the beauty of the subject, this kinds of give them. Motivation that I get to come and do 21 days and at the end you will be certified as a teacher. So I think we are in, you know the yogic tradition. We say that this is Kali Yoga where the consciousness has come very low and that's why it's very difficult to come out of the chaos and there is so much chaos in the world, so. Usually we look for instant
gratification in this generation, but I want to do something and want it right away. But it's good for a person who is a beginner and knows nothing about it and he will come and most of the teacher training where you will have the sense of community which is very important to see that when you are connected how you heal and grow together and also they will give some foundation at least.
They will know that they have yoga in their life. They can come back to it any time. That's what I feel like. Both have beauty in there. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Thank you for that explanation in the history, even for me.
That's helpful. And just to kind of like repeat what I think I understood is in a very simple way, if the student is ready, the teacher will appear, which I'm sure this might resonate with. Some people might have heard this saying before, but that's what I heard you say.
Basically, when you're ready, the teacher will appear for you. And then you, you know, there's an exchange that happens. There's a service that happens from both learning and then also giving to support the guru of the teacher.
And then there's this relationship that's established and built over a period of time. And then from that, you know, possibilities are many. And then with the Western approach, it's not so much that the students are ready, maybe some of them are, but it's more so they come in to use more of their left brain and more of the, like you said, teaching techniques and skills. And you know, the way that I see the Western world mostly viewing yoga is as a physical practice,
the Austin of practice, stretching, exercising without actually knowing the deeper roots and the limbs of what yoga truly is. And just to share my thoughts on it is, yeah, I mean, it's very different. And I also see that for the Western world, not having access to some of that same depth of history that, you know, you just described with India and how it's like this is kind of the cultural history of how, you know, when you're ready, a teacher will be there for you and the West.
I feel like if some people are ready, you might just be ready by yourself. You know, there might not be a teacher that necessarily appears. So then people will seek out and they might feel lost. And what they seek out might only be an access to a 200 hour teacher training in their hometown.
Or maybe they do come to Bali or maybe they do go to India and they only have a few weeks to be able to actually do this because of work commitments and responsibilities. And just, you know, the modern life now is very difficult financial perspectives to other types of responsibilities.
So I think it's great that they at least have an opportunity, whether it be through 21 days versus, you know, one day or zero days to be able to at least learn a little bit about what yoga is And if even if it's mostly concentrated on the physical practice, you know, Someone Like You or someone else can come in and shed some light that yoga is more than just that. And then maybe within a cohort or a student group, someone actually hears that and they
become more ready, more ready, and then all of a sudden they're more receptive and then more information or more depth might be available to them and for others, maybe not right away. And anyway, that's the way that I see it.
To some levels that's just an opportunity within these short periods of 200 hour teacher trainings because at first to me it's just short period of time that's like there's so much to learn in that major time and like it doesn't seem fair and it's like it's not really about that.
It's the 200 hour training is really just the beginning of something whether you accept it or reject it, which I think is really interesting. So yeah that's that's kind of way that I see that. And then with regards to this term impostor syndrome, which we we talked about before the the podcast began with regards to doing a training that's not in India or you know, studying with someone who is not Indian or who who was from India and has those deep roots and whether they feel
like oh yoga's not really, this isn't real, real yoga kind of thing. So maybe my question is, what is real, real yoga? See, there is a, you know, this great question that you asked. We have like India is a. Ancient spiritual land. For last 15,000 years yogis have explored yoga most beautiful way and still yoga is getting updated right? And now you do your practice, you have your own realization and you add that to the subject.
So there is one you follow the tradition. Tradition means that I have learned from somewhere from my guru. And I feel that his presentation of the teaching is so complete, I don't want to add anything to it or take away anything from it.
I just present it as it is. So this we call it the traditional yoga, where you just convey the same teaching from generation to generation and that also works, you know, if you trust in your guru and in the tradition. You will just simply follow and you can develop that one pointedness easily. But it's not only the way.
There is unorthodox path where there is no tradition like Gautam. Siddhartha happened in India where he didn't follow any of the Vedic tradition. He just went in his own path, made his own path, and today we have great teaching of the Buddha.
So it's all about you having the awakening. You embodying what you're sharing is very important to be a yoga teacher. Imposter is simply that. I'm not really feeling that way inside me, but I'm just putting up a show because I'm expected to be this person by the society. So if you really are a yoga teacher and you go no matter from where you are, which part of the world, but you go there with this and genuine heart and you have authenticity and originality.
And you continued, at least if you are not embodied completely, you are working towards it and you see that there is healing, there is beauty and truth in it. And if you feel that, I think you don't have to feel that need to follow the tradition because everything is traditional in that way.
That's great. And very permissive as well for those that maybe don't necessarily connect with other teachers in the ways that they do things. And yeah, I really liked the authentic, basically the embodiment. If you're not embodying it, then no need, no need. Yeah, Why are you doing it?
Doesn't, doesn't work for you. So embodying it? Embodying. Yoga. Yoga, lifestyle, Someone who? Maybe he's listening to say most of the people that listen to the podcast are yoga teachers, at least I believe there from the feedback that we get.
But you know, there's some of them might not actually be yoga teachers. They might just practice yoga. And if I were to, you know, just talk about because I'm thinking yogic lifestyle, this is where my question is coming Yogic lifestyle, like how do I, how do I be a yoga?
How do I live like a Yogi. And if we were to just take the awesomeness and push them to side for now. And not really focus on the physical practice. What does that actually mean to be a Yogi? To live, to live in harmony with nature.
You don't intervene. You're patient and you're observing and you allow things to happen, whatever that is happening within you. If you see that like for example if your body is hurting and any part of your body is in pain, you accept the pain, you be with that and you breathe and you do not try to do any stretch or do anything, just bring the awareness and allow the body to work with itself.
You will see the healing starts to happen. So the healing is not happening because I am intervening. I am thinking I can fix this to be a Yogi is that knowing that there is ultimately the grace which is working everywhere and he trusts and he feels that craze in his life and he slowly start to take him a step back. Interviewing directly takes a moment. Lets say an emotion is coming up rather than doing something about this emotion he allow that emotion to be there and he breathes.
So Yogi's dad, like he is constantly being effort to be in the state of balance, whether it is in the body or the mind or the intellect or in the spiritual dimension. And he is more in tune with the pranic energy, the vital force.
Everything has energy, and once you start experiencing the energy, you contemplate more on its transformations. It is more like you're allowing yourself to be a witness of what is happening and you're becoming more interested.
To be a witness of what? How the life is unfolding. You start to reflect the qualities of you, right? Or observing the word patience came up for me. Yeah, definitely. So a lot of patience. Lot of patience. Patience. Patience simply means that you are at ease, right?
You're not in a hurry to find something straight away. You are not in rush to heal yourself. You're at ease with whatever you are right now. That's patience. And that's very much required to any to do any mindfulness practice.
You might be having a stress about your work, but you now have come to do the practice for an hour or two and you're there. You don't have to avoid the stress, but you start to do the practice with the stress, right? The whole space for that.
So to be at ease with everything is patience easier. Said than done, I imagine and there's a lot of things that challenge our patients, I would say is, I mean especially. From what I see in more of the Western world, I mean because those practices aren't traditionally taught or I don't even say they're not traditionally taught, they're just not as abundantly available.
And then the culture, this is the the way of life is a little bit more go go go. You know, productivity, efficiency, which is basically a self afflicted time pressure which is like. The opposite of patients and allowing time and space for things to be settle or be observed, Yeah, that is the That's why it's very important for the people in the world right now to do yoga, that you can be deeply involved in everything that you're doing, but you can maintain that inner pleasantness.
You can be active. You can do everything that you're doing with the same energy and commitment. But deep inside you, there is the sense of calmness. And that is most required, especially if you're really in that kind of environment where you have to always keep solving the problem. You need to be in a very better place to do that. Otherwise, everything that you're trying to go through is going to affect your health.
If you're not balanced or if you're not in the right state of being that everything that after that will not be as graceful, smooth, efficient, productive, all those words that are more attractive to some, it won't go as well.
And I use the thought or the analogy my brain of preparation of, you know, the analogy of chopping down a tree and if you have six hours. To chop down the tree and you spend 4 hours sharpening the axe and then two hours to chop down the tree. It'll be probably more effective than if you only sharpen the axe for 5 minutes and then you start chopping down the tree for five hours and 55 minutes, right?
Because your tools, whether it be the axe or yourself, your patience. To me, patience is could be considered a tool, allows for a better outcome, better result. Mentally, Yeah. So that's beautiful. Cool. So let's see. What else is coming up for me is something that you said a couple days ago with regards to peace. And just to kind of give you an idea, we just finished the empowerment yoga teacher training last week like a few days ago.
And the death came in and spoke about a few topics. And not that we're going to go into those topics, but one of the things you said is that peace. Is the acceptance of life. And when you said that, I was just like oh, and that's kind of what we just spoke about to some level. It's like it's, it's it's not trying to change that around us, just observe what it is and kind of let things be to some level, right.
So I guess my question is, is what do you see is the thing that is challenging for people to actually accept life or to be able to find patients? You know what is? Why do you think it's so difficult for some people to do that? Well, it's because of how we have pictured our life as to be, and it's our desires, basically.
In Yogi terminology, we call it Ahankara. Everything that I think that I am and everything that I feel that I own, all this kind of makes us to resist life this natural way, because I'm always contemplating to live my life in certain way. But life keeps telling you, no, you have to come along with me. You cannot have your own wish, have better things for you to experience, and you're not even looking there. Right, right.
So that's the constant struggle that we being not open to the energies that is helping you to experience your life. We're kind of going against them and the more we go against then we feel more tired and lost. So basically it is slowly bringing few things. Let's say that things that does not go according to your wish rather than getting affected by it, learn the things from that situation, what was the teaching from that situation or adversity.
And ultimately you will find everything that you want. And Yogi says, actually you are already that which you are seeking, right? So you can be at ease again and explore life in your own way. The problem is this, that I want things to go in my way and sometimes it happens, but not always. That is our struggle.
Wanting things to go our way, my way and if it doesn't so the my way. Not to go too far into this, but I just the episode that was released. Recently I talked about the conscious, subconscious mind in my way. To me, I just heard subconscious mind, The stories, the patterns, the conditions, those are my way or are they even my way? Are they just a way that I I took from someone else? Right.
Parents or you know, environment or whatever coming up. So it's almost like letting go of those things as much as we can to just be the observer realizing that those. Patterns, those stories, those conditions are part of what is interrupting the process of being to observe the patience.
You'd be more yogic, if you will. Cool. I like that. That's great. So we're about 30 minutes in. I didn't tell you how long we go for these podcasts for, but we usually go around 30 to 40 minutes or so. But based off of what we've talked about so far, we've kind of talked a little bit about just very briefly about the history of yoga teachings and how it's kind of shifted involved. But also still given an opportunity for people. A lot of which who people who
are listening to this podcast most likely experienced some level of of yoga teaching or learnings. But then also talk, cultivating and talking a little bit more about how it's just the beginning and it's really just about. Allowing to be allowing yourself to be the observer of life and to be patient and acknowledge some of the challenges that might be in the way, the wants, the desires, the my way. Is there any thoughts that you might have about advice for someone who's you know juggling
with this. So we talked a little bit about what it is, but like what would be something that would be helpful for someone who's struggling with finding that balance, finding that patience, finding that ability to. Accept versus reject some of those things that are happening because of the pain or the worry or the fear.
Possibly, Yeah. I think it's a it's a good question. But you can give a very long answer for this. The simple answer is developing more love in life. Yeah, the more love you feel in your heart, it gives you the strength to surrender to life.
So either you can start awakening this divine feeling of love in you, or you can step into the mindfulness practices and learn and see how you can hold space for something which is uncomfortable in you. Yeah, and love and meditation.
This transformation is possible. Either you can integrate both of them, they will be more beautiful. Or if you choose that love is my part and to be in love and continue to allow my heart to be open. And our heart is very sensitive, it closes very quickly.
So the effort there is to bringing ourself to the love that unconditional love. These are the simple answers but have to put a lot of stuff for it to work on it. Yeah, I had a feeling you were gonna say love. And would you say love with your love for yourself?
It's just love with what is happening with you right now. What's happening with you right now? Whatever is present, whatever is present. And what are ways I know I'm keep asking you questions. Kind of the point, What are ways to, excuse me, cultivate a little bit more of that in the present moment?
Love. If someone finds themselves, maybe they're not even aware. But what's something that they can do in a moment to to try to cultivate more love in their heart? I think the best practice is saying thank you, continuously recognizing you don't.
This is the thing with the latest teaching I have learned when I was having a ceremony with the shaman in Guatemala, we all did the ceremony together and then you could meet him privately and talk about he will give you some instructions.
He is always channeling. He is great shaman and I spent with him for a couple of minutes and he actually told me how to cultivate love. In those thirty minutes that I spent with him. He used to feel the breeze passing and he used to say gracias.
He's recognizing the coolness breeze has to offer to him. He sees a butterfly and he's saying gracias. So I've heard him million times saying gracias, you know, It's not that he was trying to impress me, it was just coming to him very naturally. So finding reasons to be grateful in this moment. Yeah, you're sitting here in Bali, beautiful island and bring this beautiful conversation on about yoga. So it's assigning the mind to find reasons to be grateful. The mind can also give you the
list of complaints. Very easy, but you have to guide through your intellect that you allow to recognize the beauty. Finding more of a default pattern of gratitude and appreciation for everything. Everything. And I liked the simplicity of just saying thank you to whatever it is, even if it's positive, negative or neutral.
Yeah. Especially because with everything there might there may or may not be a lesson, especially with some of the negative things or perceived negative things. And the thank you thing to me is acknowledging what it is instead of allowing a control or a manipulation of it. Yeah.
Which kind of goes back to the allowing you to observe. I think it almost like creates space for this patients or at least this is what my brain is kind of cultivating from that done about right. You're nodding at me. So cool. All right.
This is really nice and really beautiful. I think we should. Probably just wrap it up for the time of the podcast and then probably, I'm sure I would love to and other people would love to do another episode at some point. But yeah, thank you for your coming in, taking the time and sharing some of the insights that you have. And you usually give yoga teacher trainings, but now having an opportunity for other people to listen to it that may not be able to come to Bali or
India or wherever you may be because it's such a beautiful experience to sit in front of you and allow you to share. What it is that comes through you. And I definitely feel that when I sit in your section, your sessions, that you're embodying what you say and it comes up as very true and authentic and and simplified in a way that makes it relatable. So thank you.
I appreciate you. I appreciate you. And yeah, if you had any final thoughts or words for anyone before we wrap up, then you can do that. Now, yeah, I just want to say thank you to you and to Byron and all all the team of going pro.
We are really doing great job here in Bali and I'm happy to be assisting with you all. Yeah, it's. Great to have you with us as a team. Feels really nice. If someone wanted to reach out to you or ask you a question or anything like that, is that something that's possible or something that they can do?
Yeah, definitely. They can reach out and through Instagram or Instagram. Instagram or what's up? OK, so we'll put your Instagram on the show notes. That sounds good. And yeah, if anybody wants to reach out, you can reach out to the Jeff.
And then as always, if you have any specific questions about the podcast or maybe you know something about this episode. And you can always reach out to us at podcast@goingproyoga.com. We always welcome feedback, suggestions, comments, questions, all of that stuff. Otherwise, thank you so much for listening. Thank you.
But Jeff, thank you to the birds. Thank you to the wind, the sun, the heat, Mama, Bali, to everything around us. Much love and appreciation. And we'll see you or speak to you next week. Take care, all right? Before you go, let me just tell you about the Goingpro yoga.com platform. So right now you can go to goingproyoga.com and check it out for free for seven days, where you can actually learn more about yoga in the ways of alignment, cueing, sequencing, yoga, anatomy.
So that if you've done a 200 hour teacher training and you want to continue to learn, practice and grow, this platform is definitely for you. So I definitely suggest checking it out goingproyoga.com right now. You can try it out for free for seven days.
