Perfectionism and Burnout: Breaking the Pattern with Ethan Brown

0:00 I loved it. Like it felt so good just to express and put myself out there and try something new. Overcoming fears. And then you realize that you do stumble sometimes and it's not so bad. And then in the future, when you have that voice in the back of your mind saying you might fail, then you just kind of stop listening to it because you realize that there is no such thing as failure. You can do your best and that's all that really matters. As long as you consider you, you

0:37 continue to put yourself out there. This is my view. This is how I kind of view life, overcoming fears. And just, it's just like constantly being surprised. It's like constantly planting seeds for your future self to maybe bloom or sprout in a new direction. All right, welcome back to the Going Pro Yoga Podcast. Michael Henry here, your host.

1:16 And today's a new episode with a new guest, which is really exciting. So the last few weeks it's just been me talking behind the mic. So it's actually nice to have someone else in the room, A friend and also a former student of our 200 hour teacher training, Ethan Brown is here.

1:34 And I'm really excited to have you on the podcast, Ethan. So welcome. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah. So Ethan, I actually just met basically maybe six months, maybe a little bit longer than six months ago, like last August, September of 2024 met you here in Bali and you joined our training, 200 hour teacher training.

1:54 And yeah, it was just a, a great opportunity to meet you and then kind of see your experience after the training and what you've been up to. And now you're back in Bali something like 8 months later, and you have a lot of experience and stories to share. So that's kind of why we're having you on here. And besides that small, little simple, let's say historical reference of who you are, I think it'd be great for you to kind of introduce yourself a

2:19 little bit more so people can kind of know where you're from. And then we can kind of go from. There all right well, hi everyone my name is Ethan and I'm from the states yeah and my journey really changed about two years ago when I was living in London at the time London, London and I was working as a software engineer for a big tech company Instagram and.

2:51 I've never heard of it. Well, my life basically changed when I, they had layoffs and at the time I decided to kind of take a break from my, my career and just go travelling. And so I ended up in Bali. And it was on this whole experience that I found yoga and essentially, you know, started to surrender onto this yoga path, started to find that it really resonated with me a lot more than the path that I was previously on. And, you know, one thing led to

3:30 another led to another. And I'm sure we'll get into all that, but I was teaching in Thailand and and now I'm back here in Bali. Right. Yeah, it's a little quick, little overview. And so like you said, you're from the states.

3:43 Whereabouts where the states you from? So I'm from Baltimore originally, OK. I spent some time in California when I was in university. I also worked a bit out there for Instagram. And actually, yeah, if we want to just get into it, then I can talk about the, you know, I essentially experience what people view as maybe success, career success, financial success. You know, my first couple years working, I was really doing quite well.

4:20 But then on the inside, I was feeling not so happy. I was really just, I was feeling anxiety, you know, I should have been happy, but I realized that I wasn't. And so that's how this whole journey kind of began because I, you know, I was experiencing everything I ever wanted, and I wasn't feeling how I felt like I should.

4:50 So that's when I started looking for another way. At first, I meant moving from San Francisco to London. And when I moved to London, that was me, you know, trying to scratch this itch of wanting to see the world, see other cultures, communities, travel in a Safeway where I could, you know, stay at my job. But then I quickly realized that that didn't really leave me towards, you know, fulfilling, happy life. So.

5:23 What is it that you did? You said you saw It's like a software engineer. Yeah. I was, I was, yeah, I was, I was coding on the Instagram app on Android and, you know, it was really like something that I really enjoyed. Like, I, I loved it.

5:40 I got into flow states. I was, you know, working on the app everyone uses every day, right? Which is really cool because you get to reach millions and millions of people with the work that we were doing. But over time, I started to think that, you know, I don't know it, it just wasn't so fulfilling.

6:04 It was, it was interesting work. It was very comfortable. We we got three meals a day. But you know, it wasn't, it didn't feel like my purpose. It didn't feel like it was really energizing me. It was actually quite draining.

6:21 Right. I'm curious because I know some friends back in like Ottawa and stuff like that who were like in the tech industry and like their office space was like curated in such a way that they didn't actually want you to leave.

6:32 It was just like super, like you said, three meals a day. And that's what kind of triggered it for me. But like I remember going into one of these offices and they had like a little go karts and stuff and they had like a mini little ping pong thing and like badminton and like a kitchen with just full of food. It's almost like they just wanted you to stay there, work and also have fun while you're doing it, but then also keep working a lot.

6:51 I don't know if that's a similar experience that you had or. Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right. It's, you know, show up 10 AM just in time for breakfast, lunch, dinner, coffee, snacks, ping pong, everything you can imagine, right. It's kind of designed to to keep you there, keep you happy and keep you working.

7:11 And it, it works and it's, there's a lot of camaraderie around you and your Co workers and, and it's really, it's an amazing job and experience. At least it was for the first couple years. But then eventually I decided that, you know, it wasn't really fulfilling like I was saying.

7:33 So I started to search for what was fulfilling for me. So is this when you're in London, like you started to get that kind of feeling a little bit more so because it sounds like you got it and then you went to London and just, you know, mixed things up a bit. And from what I'm hearing is like somewhere in that time is whenever you're feeling a similar kind of pull or push? Or was it after you had you had basically been let off like or was it somewhere before that?

8:01 Yeah, no, it's definitely, definitely well before that. OK, I experienced, let's see. I don't know, like it also goes back to my time in San Francisco. It was during COVID, I was living in a slightly moldy apartment and. So you were doing really well.

8:16 Yeah, which really, like if you ever live in a moldy apartment, get out of there because it really screws up your nervous system. And really my my whole body just felt off. I would wake up feeling fatigued and I had eczema breakouts all over.

8:35 And so I felt I needed a change, but I didn't know what. And so that's what brought me to London, you know, COVID things opening up and travel opening up and wanting to, yeah, just like, see what else is out there, try something different.

8:52 Because I knew that what I was doing wasn't necessarily working. Right. So did you start to practice yoga? Like what is it that you started to experiment with? Like what? Yeah. What were you doing like when you started to get those feelings? Or were you kind of like observing them but not actually doing anything with them?

9:12 And it was only after the the change of losing the job that that kind of gave you a little kick in the butt. Yeah, I mean, I was, let's see, in London, I was experimenting with how I spent my time and my energy, like the types of people I was around. I started playing soccer or football, as they say. And yeah, and then during COVID times and in London, I started to kind of take yoga classes here and there, but mostly like online YouTube yoga classes,

9:44 right. And I guess that was my first experience in yoga do. You remember what class you took or who you were taking with. I did a lot of the Peloton yoga app. Oh, OK. Yeah. Cool. So these are all like, you know, 20-30 minute videos and totally different from my experience taking classes here in Bali.

10:07 A lot of them are much more focused on efficiency and exercise and, yeah, building strength in a way that here in Bali it's much more than that. Inner strength. Cool. OK. And so, yeah, keep going. Tell me more like as you were experimenting and and kind of like the whole journey in London. I'll be a little bit of that.

10:35 Yeah. And so, well, what I would say is that in London I felt, you know, more and more, let's say, anxious and more bottled up and like just this itching need to change something. And so at the time, I wouldn't say I had the guts to really like quit and leave and make that decision because of comfort, because I was on a visa. I would have just been a lot of change at once to have made that decision consciously.

11:07 And I wasn't ready for that. And so when the layoffs happened, they closed the entire Instagram London office. And they, they said you can either come back to the States and work in New York or San Francisco, then they're done that or you can, you can take this as an opportunity to leave.

11:30 And I had a friend in London who had actually done some solo travel before. And there was kind of just like this pull towards that direction, like it was something I was interested in. I knew I like to travel. I knew I like to explore the world and different cultures.

11:48 And I was ready to at the time, take a step in that direction. Like it was no question for me. I just like sent on myself home and I flew directly from London to Bali and that's where this whole journey started. Wow, so that was like last August or July or something like that too.

12:06 When that August 2023? August 20, OK, Cuz I knew you were going in Thailand and stuff like that and you had met Akshay Shakshay's been on the podcast a couple times. So there's these funny little synergistic connections there.

12:19 OK, so 2023 ish time. Yeah, so I spent the first 6-7 months kind of just like travelling, seeing the world, experimenting. I started off in Changgu, and if you know Changgu, it's surf town, but also lots of partying. So I went out like 3 or 4 times in my first week travelling, thinking that's how I would meet friends.

12:42 It was super draining for me. Just after that I came to Ubud and I did my first yoga class here and that's when I would say my yoga journey really started. It sparked something in me. And So what I found interesting is that it was 90 minute class, 90 minute class by default, you know, like most of the classes are 90 minutes here, not 60. And I was like, wow, that's a long time. I've only really done these 2030 minute classes. I'm going to get quite tired.

13:18 But when I showed up, I realized well after the class I was like, I felt super grounded. And it's because we spent 20 minutes really dropping in, taking it slow, meditating and focusing on her breath and really just arriving in the space. And then it ramps up and you get your workout in. But throughout the entire class, you're guided to go inside as well.

13:50 So it's not just exercise, it's really, it's really you taking an internal journey and you're with a bunch of other people. But it's an opportunity to really to, to go inside. And, and yeah, since then, 90 minute classes have been the perfect length. Anything shorter feels quite short. Yeah, feels like you're getting ripped off a little bit. Yeah, unfortunately, I mean, you know, it's the same more the Western, like busier world or it's not Bali Bali's a different place.

14:22 Yeah, classes are 60 minutes or less. So there's in 60 minutes is a hard chunk of time to really deliver a full experience, not just the physical experience, but kind of what you're describing the more than that experience. You can call it spiritual if you want, or you can just call it connective, energetic, even mental. I would say it really helps you to settle your mind. So yeah, I get this.

14:44 I had a similar experience when I first came to Bali and started practicing and I was just like, oh, 90 minute classes, this must be the normal. And then I would try it like somewhere else. And I was like, oh, that felt super short and like, like I, I didn't get enough like I want.

14:57 I was like, I feel like there should be more, you know? So yeah, I have a similar feeling about that as well. Yeah. And I actually haven't taken classes back in, in the States or in the West since, but I remember because I have taken one or two classes here and there, like the, you know, the classes start on time and then sometimes people even leave during Shavasana, they have somewhere to go. And I've experienced that where it's like you feel rushed and then you can't really fully drop

15:24 into the experience. And so it's an amazing thing to be here in Bali where like you really have the time and energy to devote to your inner self. I guess there was a bit of a blessing with this whole losing the job thing cuz you kind of sounded like you wouldn't, You weren't really ready to kind of take that leap. And then the universe was like, here, we'll do it for you. And then that pushed you into this space, and then now you had more time to explore and just

15:52 open up to see what's possible, right? Yeah, it's the best thing that ever happened to me so far. So far, OK, that's good. I like it. So then you can, you kind of stayed in Bali for a little bit and then you continue to travel other places.

16:06 And then so throughout, let's just say that time and it's before you kind of eventually went to the training where I met you. Was there something within that time frame where you kind of felt more, let's say, connected in a different way to yourself or to something else that you didn't really have words for and that's what kind of kept you moving forward with like a little bit more zest versus, you know, what you were doing previously?

16:32 Yeah, it's a good question. Well, I would say the first six or seven months of my travel was more adventure mode, I call it. So small backpack, big backpack and just super mobile, easy to move around, moving around every few days.

16:49 So I got to visit so many beautiful countries and understand different cultures in Southeast Asia here. So I started in Bali, but I went to some other islands in Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, India, Sri Lanka. So I really got to experience something amazing just back-to-back to back, so many cultures.

17:14 And through that experience, learning about myself, learning how to be by myself in my own mind, how to travel solo, things come up. And so there's, there's a lot of like letting go and patience and surrender that needs to happen in that journey. So I don't know, I used to travel occasionally a weekend or a week somewhere in Europe and I almost had like check boxes, you know, like these are all the things I need to do. And that's how I started my

17:50 journey here because that's what I knew. But what I found is that kind of like the slower I went, the more time I spent in each place. It's all about the connections you make ultimately. So connecting with the locals, connecting with other travellers.

18:07 And if you're moving around every 2-3 days and trying to see everything, you're almost doing nothing in particular because you don't go so deep on any particular experience. Yeah, can definitely relate to that. Yeah. I used to, I used to do a lot of that, which was like move around a lot, like couple days here, a couple days there, move, move, move, move.

18:27 And now I'm just like, I just want to stay in one place for at least like 4 to 5 days minimum. A week would be nice, maybe longer just to kind of settle and actually experience what's there versus just like getting like a drive by like glance of what is actually occurring. Yeah, yeah.

18:44 And I still have friends who are saying I have 3 weeks to spend in Southeast Asia. I'm thinking of doing Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam. What do you recommend? Yeah, I usually tell them pick one. Yeah, pick one. But I need to do it all.

18:57 I'm like, you can't just pick one. Yeah. So those were my first six or seven months travelling. And then eventually I kind of realized, OK, this slower lifestyle really is more fulfilling to me. I'm like learning a lot more about myself and people. And so that's kind of when we met is like I came back to Bali, I was like ready to stay places for longer places I enjoyed on my first go around.

19:27 First of all, I feel so, so grateful that I'm just able to have this large chunk of time to explore the world and explore myself. And that's what landed me in Bali, just like the curiosity to really go within and find new versions of myself that were ready to come out and kind of just let go of old versions of me that were either conditioned or just parts of me that no longer resonated maybe.

20:01 So when I came back to Bali the second time around, that was the first time that I went to Yoga Barn. I showed up, my friend Christian brought me to Byron's class. I already knew Akshay. So there were like these couple little threads that that brought me to Byron's class in Yoga Barn. And after his first class, he mentioned the training that was coming up in August and I was already thinking about doing a yoga teacher training at some point. I wasn't really sure what or

20:31 where, but his style just really resonated with me. If you haven't been to Byron's class, the style is kind of walking around the room and there's always a theme. So you can get something deeper than just the you're doing the yoga, you're doing the yoga sequence.

20:50 But at the same time you you go deep in a specific area, maybe gratitude, patience, or whatever it is. You always leave learning something about yoga or something about yourself. And so Byron's class specifically sparked something in me that was like, OK, I've done now deeper yoga in Bali, but this was a whole another experience and I was ready to kind of dive in and and learn that style. And that's when you signed up.

21:24 And that's when I signed up. And that's when I met you. In comes my call. I actually think I ran into you before the training one or two times. I forgot, but I remember seeing your face multiple times and then at one point you're like, I do him, he's in the training or someone said he's in the training.

21:39 I'm like, yeah, yeah. You know, just 'cause I kind of knew you a little bit just from like running into you a couple times and then, yeah, I mean, I don't know if you've done a 200 hour training before. Not you, Ethan, but whoever's listening. But that's a, that's a whole experience in itself. We don't need to necessarily deconstruct that too much, but maybe we can talk more about like what it was for you and what it meant for you and what came out of it for you. Yeah, well, so that was, it was

22:06 two months between the time I took my first class with Byron and joined the training and the 200 hour training. I mean, it's it's just quite amazing. It's an amazing experience. You get 2530 people coming together from all across the world just to kind of learn and and experience yoga together. And to hear these amazing teachers, Paul, Byron, Michael, breaking down yoga in such a fundamental level that we can then go out into the world and share it ourselves. It's really an inspiring thing

22:46 to, yeah, like be able to experience, put into words like what I'm learning so that I can then share it in, in my example, Thailand. But then everyone kind of leaves and it's almost like the experience never happened. But you remember inside that, you know, all the things you learned. And then you can go out to the world and share that. Yeah, that is a bit of a challenge that I'd say a lot of people face.

23:19 It's just that post train, it's like the post training, like ecstasy followed by like the crash. And you know, we talk about it a lot. And that's part of the reason why we have the podcast is just something to like feel like you can still be connected to Bali if you're not in Bali or just like yoga.

23:36 If you go back to a place where you're like, there's not really a community here. There's not really a place for me to feel like I can explore more of this stuff or dive more into this because I just other people are not interested in it.

23:47 And we actually also want to do more like mentorship stuff as well to kind of like allow people to feel like there's a sense of community globally, not just like, you know, within like a local space. So that people like you and, you know, even the last training we did, a lot of people felt a similar thing. And we're over here being like we're, we're, we love to give the experience, but the other part of us is like, how do we continue to help support after

24:09 the fact? I mean, yes, it's great for you, you know, people to go out and figure it out on their own to some degree and like go through the the rough patches and, and that's part of the process, that's part of the tapas and the discipline and the purification. But at the same time, it's also really nice to have a little bit of, you know, someone in your corner or someone that you can kind of lean on here and there that's kind of gone through it, let's say a little bit more

24:32 ahead of you, like a few years ahead or, you know, maybe even a decade ahead. It just makes you feel a little bit more held, you know, so. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing I would add about the, the training, which is so great is that the, the specific 200 hours is focused a lot more on teaching than a lot of other 200 hours that exist.

24:57 So we do a lot of practicing, actually teaching in front of the whole group, which is so beneficial. I can't even exaggerate. I've met so many travellers who have done 200 hours but are afraid to take the next step to start teaching. But we got that in the training, which was so fantastic. We it's almost like half public speaking training because overcoming that fear of being holding the space of the room and the energy and the ability to teach a yoga sequence in front of the class is really

25:35 quite scary at the start. Yeah, absolutely. And we throw you in early too. Week 1, usually somewhere towards the end, we're like, OK, let's get in front of the class. If you were like, what already? Yeah, you got to do it and get it done, get it out of the way, you know, So that's great.

25:49 Thanks for, you know, reiterating that back. That's kind of our intention is to try to give more of that real life experience. You know, a lot of teacher trainings have their own ways of delivering what yoga is. And there's so many different ways.

26:04 There's no right or wrong way. Let's make sure that we understand that. But there are different ways depending on your goals. And then the one thing that we definitely pride ourselves on is teaching people how to teach yoga, like the physical awesome of practice.

26:18 And then all the other elements kind of come along with it to some degree. But without actually having that opportunity to see what it's like to do it to kind of, you know, trip and fall a little bit, especially when you're in a container that can feel a little bit more supportive with your peers who are also going through the same process.

26:35 Even though it's a bit scary, it's kind of like it just makes you feel like when you come out of it, you're a little bit more like prepared. That makes sense. And it sounds like that's the experience that you've noticed compared to other people who've done a training and probably we're wanting to take a similar path but didn't have that same, let's say, energetic confidence. Yeah, right.

26:57 Yeah. And, and I would say that like a big part of it is overcoming this fear of failure and realizing, like you said, like it's a it's normal, it's OK to trip and stumble. And to have the space to do that in the yoga teacher setting was, was really important to my journey. Yeah.

27:19 And. It really challenges the perfectionist, the perfectionist in all of us. Yeah. And I was going to say, yeah, my my background is that I'm very much a perfectionist. And so dropping that in my mind and just like having compassion towards myself and doing my best and just allowing myself to whatever comes outcomes out and was meant to come out in that moment, whatever I said. Not really after the class.

27:44 Damn, I wish I said that one thing differently or it becomes an exercise in kind of self love as well. Yeah, absolutely. It's that pressure to some degree that kind of like gets us dysregulated. But that's also the time in which we can help to what I would call improve our window of tolerance when it comes to the nervous system or just like our resilience to stress in a manageable way. And with a container of love and support and recognition of like, yeah, mistakes are great.

28:17 And we kind of laugh at it and giggle and whatever. Then that just makes it feel lighter and less compared to let's say the Western perspective in a professional setting where it's like mistakes are more targeted as like a spotlight of, I wanna say blame, but they're not as they're not received quite as well. Let's just say it's it's not in a lot of settings anyway. So I think that really helps with the learning experience. But then also just like the the

28:46 community experience, which to me is kind of one of the same, but the best learning experience is usually whenever there's a sense of community and belonging, cuz then you're more regulated and usually more open to trying things that are uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah.

29:00 And I would, I would also say that in the in the West, there's this attitude of perfectionism and also fake it till you make it. And I guess what I would say right now is that I'm in the process and it's OK for me to be vulnerable about that and say I'm not perfect and I'm learning constantly and I'm ready to share what I know, but I don't know everything. So part of my yoga journey is sharing where I'm at, doing my best to kind of take my experiences that I'm learning through travel and through

29:39 experiencing the world and my process of transformation and sharing that with the people in my class and the people who I connect with on Instagram in the world. A lot of it are little keys that people know, people know deep down, but often need to be reminded.

29:59 And so I do right now, I do some writing on Sub Stack. I'm writing weekly and about learnings that I have and a lot of people back home, friends, my parents, friends, my grandma is my biggest fan. They, they love to hear kind of these, these things that I'm learning because they're things that they know deep down but have forgotten.

30:25 Yeah, that's great. They're like kind of living vicariously through your journey and they get to share it. I don't know much about Sub Stack, but it's kind of like a private blog, kind of something like that. Yeah. How would you?

30:37 How would you describe it? Yeah, Sub stack. It's, it's kind of like A blog, social media. So it's essentially like it's a blog, but you can also connect with other writers. And yeah, I'm mostly just using it as a as a place to put my writing out there.

30:52 Right way of expressing your experiences kind of thing. So then like with your experience of, you know, going through this teacher training and you know, we talked a little bit about the up and down and but then you were inspired to go. I remember because throughout the training I remember you saying like, I think I'm going to go to Thailand and just teach for a bunch.

31:11 And that's exactly what you did, right? Mm Hmm. So tell me about that. Yeah, One thing that's interesting is when I signed up for the training, I didn't have the intention to be a yoga teacher. And I think that's a lot of people's experience as well. It's something that kind of came through the process of feeling the confidence throughout the training and the excitement to share.

31:36 And I was like, ah, yoga teaching. That's actually, it would be a great way to share what I know and and kind of give back. And I think we talked about this concept of not being a yoga teacher, but being a yoga sharer. Yeah.

31:50 So sharing yoga, sharing what we know from our own experience. So yeah, my, my plan after was basically I started teaching maybe two weeks after the training when everything was still fresh. I went to π Thailand, which is a small mountain village in the north.

32:08 And I taught at a hostel for about 5 months, four or five times a week. And what was amazing was that it was free yoga, so free for the community. And I got a meal in return. So it was really an act in kind of just like one. I found it to be an amazing opportunity. I would get these massive classes actually teaching out in front of the rice fields.

32:34 I loved it so much. How, how, How big were your classes? My. Or like range? Give me a range. Yeah, my, my, well, my first class was 12 people. OK. My second, that's a big first class. Yeah, my second class is 22. OK. My biggest class was 44 people.

32:51 OK, wow. That's great. Right, Right in the fire. Yeah. So, so all in that range. But what was interesting was I taught one class somewhere else that had just one person show up. OK. And that was a completely different experience.

33:07 So I got kind of used to teaching these big classes to the point where that felt super comfortable. But then when I had this smaller class, 135 people, it's a totally different experience to kind of guide in that environment. So part of my journey has been being OK with like and learning how to teach in different settings, different groups. Every time I taught, it was kind of a different energy in the room and flowing with that and figuring out how to how to guide.

33:41 Not coming in with an agenda like this is what I want to say, but just allowing the present moment to to guide me and just being there in the room. There was so much, there's so much to say about about teaching, but essentially like.

33:59 Well, just think of think of just think of some of the people that are listening might actually be in a situation where they're either on the fence of teaching yoga or they they're recently finished a training maybe, or maybe they did a training before, but they're like, I kind of want to get back into it or I want some inspiration or anything like that. Because, you know, a lot of people go through that mental blocking of self talk.

34:22 If I'm not good enough or I can't do this or I don't remember what to do or I'm not prepared enough. And one of the things that you just said is just like, sometimes, not necessarily the lack of preparation, but the surrendering to trusting yourself kind of actually lends to eventually kind of leading the way for you or clearing the path, which I can relate to a lot.

34:40 In fact, when I teach yoga, sometimes when I'm not prepared is my best classes. When I say not prepared, I mean like I kind of surrender to not trying to have everything under control and just see what happens in the flow.

34:52 Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, my advice would be 1 to just learn through experience. Like there's only so much that our mind can kind of hold intellectually without having experienced it. So just throw yourself in, throw yourself into the fire and see how it goes. And for me, my first class maybe wasn't so good. My second class was a little bit better. And slowly and slowly I would say that I became more comfortable teaching.

35:26 It took less energy each time. And part of that was also not trying to do too much too quickly. So a lot of new teachers seem to want to be really creative and change their sequences all the time. And I did a little bit of that. I'm also taught the same sequence, maybe tweaking it a little bit here and there throughout my first even, yeah, 2-3 months.

35:56 And I started like, I started very simply, slowly. I added in some music here and there. So you didn't have music at the beginning? I think my first class or two I didn't have music. Now that's great. And then I think that what comes across to people is kind of like the love and energy you put into it. So I guess authenticity.

36:19 I'll get a lot of compliments for not putting, not putting on like a like a yoga voice, like a soft, like trying to get everyone into it, but actually just being my authentic self and just showing up and not trying to be funny.

36:35 But like, if things were funny, if things just came out, we'd all kind of laugh together. I would get a lot of compliments just for being authentic. And they're like, wow, you're actually the exact same teaching as you are not teaching, which was really one of the things I aspired to do.

36:53 So yeah. So to answer your question, I would say throwing yourself in being authentic is really important. I'm not trying to do too much at once. Being OK with making mistakes. Yes, being self compassionate. My first class I forgot the name of triangle pose so. What do you call it this pose?

37:18 Yeah, I just, I just guided them into it and eventually it came, but it was OK. And the next time I made sure not to forget that, right? The other thing that I really I like to change a lot was the theme that I talked about.

37:34 So I talked about how how Byron and Paul like to incorporate themes into their classes. And so I would say I went a little bit overboard at times, but it was what it was exciting me. I would spend the night before kind of like prepping a theme, whether it was gratitude or presence. Or when I say overboard, I did a a whole class on honey bees, which was a beautiful theme about collaboration. And you know, we're all individuals that are working together towards the good of the

38:06 hive. But part of that is I'm going on a little bit of a tangent. No, I love it, actually. I, I, I'm going to keep going. Keep going. But but part of that is that we are all individuals and to embrace that individuality, to show our flaws, to show that, you know, we're all unique people with unique skill sets and not trying to conform to be the same person.

38:32 So allowing ourselves to express authentically who we are and also propping each other up and together we can come together to create something great, which is honey. Yeah, in case of bees. Yeah, that's great. The nectar, I love it. That's such a beautiful way of theming a class, or just not even theming a class, but just having a conversation or discussion, or whether it's with yourself or with the students. I think it's cool.

38:58 I also know you've experimented with a couple other things. And the reason why I was smiling when you started talking with the honeybee because I heard that you tried like a like a reverse class where you went from like, you know, instead of going from like a build up to Shavasana, which is like corpse pose, you kind of did the reverse of it.

39:13 How'd that go? That was interesting too. It was a, the theme was living life backwards, right? So it was like, you start off and I guess you're coming back from the dead. Yeah. Corpse pose. And then slowly and slowly you get younger and younger. You leave the retirement home, you're healthier. You're, you're in your job and you're, you're and then like each, each section of class is kind of divided into like, divided by some kind of breath work. So it's like the, the poses kind

39:45 of went along with the theme. And then eventually you end up and you're a little baby and you're unhappy baby and then once again Javasana. That's great. You know, what I love about that is that you're, you're kind of playing with it and I don't know how you felt it went or how it went, but I'm sure to some degree it was just, it was very playful and it was authentic and it was real.

40:04 And I'm assuming with a sense of like community yoga like it was in π was probably welcomed because it was just like, oh, this is fun, you know? And how was it for you? Was it fun? It was fun, Yeah. I think that for me it was an amazing space to try something out because I was surrounded by, like I said, 3040 travellers who had no expectation for what it was.

40:33 It was just called a yoga class. So I could come in and I could actually just craft whatever experience that I wanted to do, try something new every time. I would either change something small about the sequence, take some kind of risk essentially.

40:49 Sometimes it would go well, sometimes it wouldn't. But either way, the fact that I was kind of like trying something was a was a small win every single time. And something that I would also mention was I'd also like to say that like public speaking is not something that ever really came to me easily. And so having these, the, the fact that I was up there leading a class as someone who was an introvert my whole life, it was a big deal for me.

41:26 It was really exciting. And so, yeah. That kind of just unpacked something that you didn't know that was there. Maybe somewhat forcefully, but not really forcefully. You kind of put yourself in that situation to explore it, which is cool.

41:40 I also love that you said, you know, taking risks, which is something that we really push in our training is to tell people to take risks, But people usually don't want to take risks because they think if I take a risk, then what happens?

41:52 What's the worst case scenario? So when you said you were taking risks and someone hears the word risk, they think, oh, shoot, consequences of risk. But like, what's the worst thing that happens when you take risks? And, and yoga classes usually just, I mean, you can answer your question, but usually not much.

42:08 Either people just kind of like don't laugh or you're just like, oh, that didn't work. And you just, you try something else. You just keep kind of keep going. Do you have anything to add to that or any thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, when I take a risk and it flops, which happens, it's OK.

42:25 There's like, you know, you just keep moving forward. You forget about it, you laugh about it. People love when you when you make a joke that doesn't laugh and then you laugh about it and then they laugh. So it's kind of just letting you go, but risks are super important, not just when teaching yoga, but also it's one of my primary ways that I that I grow and transform as a human and try and like find different aspects of my identity that I didn't know about that excite me.

42:57 So what that looks like is looking kind of just constantly paying attention to what scares me and then running towards that. So before I started teaching yoga, and this actually probably helped, I had dabbled and kind of playing guitar the past couple of years, but there was no part of me that ever wanted to perform in front of people.

43:23 I was scared. I was like not ready to to share in that way. And at some point someone kind of forced me Slash. I was ready, I guess, to do an open mic event, not force me, encourage me. So I went up there and I, I did my best and it wasn't so good, but I loved it. Like it felt so good just to express and put myself out there and try something new.

43:51 Overcoming fears. And then you realize that you do stumble sometimes and it's not so bad. And then in the future, when you have that voice in the back of your mind saying you might fail, then you you just kind of stop listening to it because you realize that there is no such thing as failure. You can do your best and that's all that really matters. As long as you consider you, you continue to put yourself out there.

44:23 This is my view. This is how I kind of view life overcoming fears. And just, it's just like constantly being surprised. It's like constantly planting seeds for your future self to maybe bloom or sprout in a new direction. That's great.

44:42 I love it. And I know I saw some videos of you like playing the flute and stuff at the end of class and things as well. I don't know if you're a flute player or not, but sounded good from the clip that I saw. Yeah. Well, that's part of your risk taking as well, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:55 And flute playing, like I started playing when I started teaching, OK, started off with like simple melodies and then it basically it was always kind of simple melodies, totally unnecessary. I would say to, to play an instrument at the end of class, but it also adds kind of an element of fun and authenticity and heart.

45:16 So I actually I loved and I only did it because I loved it, but I loved kind of like going around. I kind of stole some pieces from the teachers here in Bali. I went around with some essential oil at the beginning of class and really like it helps the connection between you and the students because you get to kind of like go up to them, make eye contact and say like good morning, welcome, playing flute at the end, burning Palo Santo. These are all like little

45:43 touches that aren't necessary in a yoga class, but I find really help kind of create the space and and bring the energetic, the heart energy to the to the next level. Yeah, absolutely. That's great. This is, you know, whether it's risk or not, it's there's something about risk that's authentic.

46:03 I'd say in a lot of ways is that that's stumbling, that stepping, that kind of fumbling that's real. And people I think, connect more to that than they do with the perceived viewpoint of that's perfect or that's flawless.

46:16 Obviously there's beauty in that, you know, but I think people resonate more with to some degree that, you know, that rawness and then also that non attached like, OK, well, you know that that didn't work so well, but like, let's keep going, let's have some fun, you know kind of thing.

46:30 So I think that's great. And part of that I think is, is allowing ourselves to just stumble, like imagine we're children, like bringing our inner child out into the world and, and allowing ourselves to, to try new things to, to not feel so rigid to, to flow and explore.

46:48 And that's, that's a way that I like to express is like trying out new things. So if you look at my Instagram, I'll, I'll post a poem of me reciting a poem and then I'll post like a food blog. And it's so random, but it's kind of just like this energy that comes up within me that I then listen to and, and express it in some way.

47:09 And it's not consistent, but that's OK because in my opinion, we're not really meant to be on this like one path. I remember working at Instagram, one of my first meetings, my manager and I, we, he asked me, what is your five year plan?

47:29 And I was 20 at the time, something like that. And I had no clue what my life would look like 5 years from now. And now I would say, what is my one month plan? I don't even necessarily know. I almost wake up with a attitude of like, I feel different every single day. So let's kind of just try and flow with the energy, not necessarily lock myself in to a specific, yeah, a specific path. So I that's, that's kind of how I explore and allow myself to to flow through through life and

48:09 continue expanding and growing. And yeah. And it's been beautiful up to this point. And there's also more to share. But yeah, you seem to have a glow about you when I do see you or whether it be on like social media or just now or when I saw you a few days ago when I knew you were back, I was just like, oh, shit.

48:28 It's just really nice. And there's something about that versus having this like feeling drained or feeling kind of not burnt out, but unsatisfied, unfulfilled people have a different energy or different glow, let's just say.

48:42 So I love that about you. And I also love that you continue to just kind of explore things and try things and take risks. And one of those things was you got inspired or something kind of encouraged you to do more after Thailand. So what did, what was that?

48:56 Tell me more about that. Yeah, first of all, thank you for all that. You're welcome. So I taught yoga for five months in Thailand, but after a while, I felt like I can only really share from my own experience. I only felt like there was, you know, there's this fake it till you make it mentality that we talked about earlier.

49:18 But I really truly wanted to share from the heart. And it got to the point where I felt like I needed to take a step back and become the student again. And So what that looked like for me was I now spent the last, the last 2-3 months in India and I wanted to essentially my experience so far was in power yoga and vinyasa style and I wanted to try something different.

49:44 So in India, I tried Ayengar yoga, Ayengar style. And for those of you who don't know, Ayengar is a type of yoga kind of more based on alignment. It's like we're going to use as many blocks and blankets and props as necessary to kind of support our bodies and get into the position as best as we can.

50:08 And that was a amazing experience in and of itself. It would, it informed me of like the very kind of like the way that we, when you stretch your fingers or stretch your toes, it almost kind of like align your whole body in a very specific and energetic way. So it actually kind of informs and folds back into my vinyasa practice in a way that kind of improves myself practice as well.

50:38 I was also nursing an injury. So during that time I didn't do any vinyasa. I went to India and I didn't do any vinyasa or hatha yoga at all. So it was just very self compassionate and allowing myself to heal. And yeah, when that kind of ended, I, that's where I'm at now.

51:01 I left India a week ago and I came back to Bali and now I'm ready to kind of jump back into it with these new lessons that I've learned on that, on that little side journey. So in I'm curious a little bit more about India, did you besides setting anger, I thought, I thought you'd done something else as well and like you'd study like parts of Buddhism or something like that. I don't want to like plan to see that doesn't exist, does it? Does it exist?

51:28 Yeah, yeah, OK. That exist actually two weeks ago I I took a 10 day intro to Buddhism course OK as well. How was that? Yeah. And so that just ended. I'm actually still integrating that. And and what that means is I alluded to it earlier, but we get so much knowledge coming in, whether it's through self help books or trainings or whatever it is. In this case, for me, it was a A10 day Buddhism course with it. Like you just learn so, so much all at once. And so now I'm in this phase of

52:02 integration, which is bringing it kind of like from my head into my heart or my head into like my being. So trying to change my, my habits, my actions to integrate to a line with this new philosophy. And some of the biggest takeaways from Buddhism, a lot of Buddhist philosophies. And like I said, it was an introcourse. So I'm a beginner here, but a lot of Buddhist philosophies, at least on the surface, overlap with yoga philosophy in a lot of ways.

52:36 So a lot of it's just about being a better person. They have their notions of karma, of rebirth, which you may or may not agree with, but it's very like, not pushy. I would say very much like take it or leave it. You know, these are the ideals and aspirations of what it means to practice Buddhism. And something I learned which I didn't know before was there's different types of Buddhism.

53:07 So in Thailand they have one type of Buddhism and then in the north of India, in Tibet, Tibetan Buddhism and, and Nepal as well. The big difference being Nepalese Buddhism, It's called Mahayana Buddhism is about almost bettering yourself for the benefit of all beings.

53:33 And it's something that I'm sure you've experienced as well. But when, when I've been on this journey and kind of like shifting, transforming moment of the Phoenix, you know, like letting myself transform, the conversations I'm having with people, my friends and family and strangers have shifted as well. So almost through like purifying myself and becoming closer to who I really am, I, the conversations I'm having are shifting.

54:07 The way I spend my time is different. And so the people around me are also kind of coming on this journey with me as well, if that makes sense. So it's like the more I'm working on myself, the more it kind of through osmosis translates to my to my close friends and community. Right.

54:26 It's like the ripple effect of the water. It's kind of the way that I visualize that you're the stone or the you're the Pebble in the water moving and it's just rippling outward. And some people are receiving it if they're receptive and open to it anyway, that's cool.

54:40 So you're still on the you're, you're, you're in it, you're in the journey you're going through. And now you're back in Bali and doing a podcast talking about it. So what's next for you? What do you think? What do you think is the journey? I know I'm not going to ask you what you're doing next month or next week, but like.

54:55 Yeah, thank you for. That what do you, I don't know, what do you think? Yeah, I think part of the journey is me being here saying that I don't necessarily have a a strict plan. I loved teaching yoga and I'll continue to hopefully teach at some point.

55:12 But right now the answer is I'm not really sure. Like I said, I'm in this integration phase. I'm planning to be here in Bali taking yoga classes and, and just doing Bali things for the next month or so. And I plan to go back home and visit my family.

55:31 I have a 1 1/2 year old niece named Bella. Hi, Bella, if you're listening. So yeah, just spend the summer in the States, continue to express to write online to see where this life takes me and not have a fixed view for what that looks like. I love it.

55:53 That's so good. Amazing. Well, I feel like I know you a lot more now and I would say anyone who's listening probably feels the same whether they knew you before or not. So thank you for sharing all that, your experiences, your insights, your lessons, your stumbles, your falls, these things.

56:12 It's great. And that's what I love about this opportunity to kind of have this platform is to showcase not just highlights and like, beautiful things, but just also the things that wouldn't be necessarily deemed beautiful, which is like the other little things about risks and mistake and perfectionism. And just like the hero's journey, which I think is beautiful, but it can also be scary and uncomfortable. So I'm very grateful for you coming in for being here at this time.

56:39 And yeah, if you know, the audience that we have on the podcast is always a variety of yogis and people who might be kind of like wanting to try to figure out how to get unstuck or not really sure. And they're trying to feeling like unclear. So yeah, is there anything that comes to mind on what, what might be helpful for someone who's listening, who's like, yeah, I, I could use a little spark. I could use something.

57:01 Is there any words of wisdom that are channelling through you right now that might come through? I would say you don't have to quit your job, quit your life and move across the world to to follow this path. There are lots of small ways to to allow yourself to explore, to try new things, whether it's on the weekend, during the nights.

57:30 But if there's some kind of energy that's, you know, deep inside of you ready to let loose, try and listen to that. And if that's pulling you in the direction to teach yoga and there's some kind of fear blockage that's maybe in the way, allow yourself to just throw yourself in, allow yourself to fail. And through only through experience can you get there. And yeah.

58:03 Give it a, give it, give something a try. Yeah, give it a shot. Just go for it and just, yeah, life's too short, you know, just break the mold a little bit, ruffle some feathers, be uncomfortable, Yeah. Because there's, there's, there's no real, there's no real harm that comes out of trying something.

58:24 It might hurt the ego a little bit, but if things just try it, you know? If things don't go well, then laugh it off and try again. Yeah, beautiful. So if anyone is, I'm curious to kind of like hear what's next for you or follow you along or maybe on sub stack or something like that. Yeah.

58:46 What's the best way to do that? Yeah, so my Instagram is ETH. Pray love, like ETH pray love. But my name ETH. I love it. We'll add it in the We'll add it in the show notes. Yeah. And yeah, and we'll throw the sub stack on there as well.

59:00 Cool. But feel free to follow me if you if you want to DM me or have any questions or are inspired by my journey, I'd be happy to chat as well. So keeping that door open. Amazing. Cool. Well, thank you so much, Ethan again for coming in and sharing all that.

59:16 And thank you to everyone who tuned in and listened this week. We will see you next week. If you have any questions, like I said, you can reach out to Ethan, you can reach out to me. We'll put all that information in the show notes.

59:27 Otherwise, have a beautiful rest of your day and we'll speak to you next week. Before you go, let me tell you about the Going proyoga.com platform. This is an online learning platform that is suited for anyone who's interested in learning about yoga.

59:40 Whether you've done a 200 hour teacher training and you want to supplement your own learning, continue to educate yourself and grow, or you just are getting started with yoga. You're interested in the topic and you want to learn more about it. We have all the resources that are available for you. Whether it's learning more about queuing, yoga poses, sequencing, creating classes, the yoga philosophy and the lifestyle, or maybe you're interested in the

1:00:03 anatomy and the Physiology and learning more about the body, we have so much to offer for you. And right now you can go check it out for free for seven days. And if you like it and you want to continue as a member, right now we're doing a special offer for our podcast listeners where you can sign up for an extra 20% off. So upon registration, make sure to go down to that coupon code and push in Podcast Special 20.

1:00:28 Again, that's Podcast Special 20. That'll give you 20% off the membership. So if you're interested in that, I would not delay and I'd go check it out today because we're only offering this to the 1st 30 users. Again, Podcast Special 20.

1:00:42 Go check it out goingproyoga.com.