Show notes
Becoming a grounded meditation teacher meant letting go of the guru myth for Charlie Knoles, and Paul interviews the renowned teacher about a down-to-earth way to mentor without getting lost in the clouds.
They discuss his journey growing up as the son of a world famous meditation father, and finding a grounded approach to being a mentor and teacher without getting lost in the clouds. Charlie highlights his time working for Apple selling iPhones before he began sharing his message with the world.
The IN Movement Website: https://theinmovement.com/
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The IN Movement Podcast was formerly the Going Pro Yoga Podcast — and before that, the Yoga Teacher Evolution Podcast and the Rat Race Rebellion Podcast. Same mission, evolved name.
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Alright, welcome to the Rat Race Rebellion podcast. I am one of your co-host Paul Tio do and we created this podcast with the intention of letting you know that you can go after your dreams. So if you're stuck in some sort of a mundane life that is not consistent with your heart and your soul, we are bringing guests that will show you and tell you that you can go after your dreams and I'm Brent Collier. Another co-host also joined by Michael Henry behind the scenes, in the background.
Helping us produce this amazing podcast, where we share our own personal experience, of the hero's journey. The struggles that we've faced, and the challenges that we've overcome to live a life full of passion and purpose, we want to encourage you to do the same to travel to see the world to live your best life. And hopefully by providing you with some amazing guests and interviews.
We can encourage you to do the same. So thank you so much for listening. Yeah, and we're also going to, of course, have some Wellness tips on yoga. Meditation and dealing with anxiety dealing with lower back pain. So they'll be lots of fun tips for all.
You Wellness, professionals out there have a beautiful day. Thank you so much. All right, everybody. Welcome to the Rat Race Rebellion. My name is Paul chiodo and I am super excited to have our guest for this week. My friend, Charlie Knowles, Charlie knows, is a meditation teacher extraordinaire.
He is the founder of The Vedas enter Vedic, meditation yoga teacher. ER, in yoga teacher trainings, and he's also created an amazing online course. That is one of the first fully online, meditation, teacher trainings, correct. It is yeah, awesome.
Charlie spent half of his life in Australia half of his life in America and he is actually my inspiration. My wife and I we were inspired by him and that's why we moved to Bali. So I owe you that you are our inspiration. I was like, all right, this guy.
Can move to Bali with his four kids and and build the life of his dreams. Then I can do it too and so thank you for inspiring me. Welcome, I'm glad I did because now I've got some friends here her, you know, where it's a bit.
Lonely here. Being at, when you come in here by yourself at the first time, yeah, I'm really glad that you and Leah made the jump to come out here so it's good. Yeah, we absolutely. We love it here in Bali, it's been an adventure and a journey and we're going to get into that a lot. But yeah, let's let's just Begin. So you were actually raised in a meditation family. So meditation has been with you since the day you were born, correct?
Yeah. I actually, you know, it's funny, I was, I just had my birthday in July and July so I was talking with my mom, on my birthday, about the whole experience. She had while she was pregnant with me and actually had she was on a six-month Meditation Retreat, while she was pregnant with me.
Wow. So like in a way, it's Since before I was born. I've been trying fighting meditation. Yeah, like in utero kind of soaking up all of that energy so she was like on an advanced Meditation Retreat as it. She was already a teacher by then, but she was training with her Guru to like learn more like deeper techniques. And with this in India, no, it was actually in Switzerland. Yeah, so that they rented out this big hotel near Silas Berg Switzerland.
Overlooking. Think, like, with CERN and one of the one of Of the big lakes in Switzerland. And yeah they she she was pregnant with me. She was kind of soaking in all of his knowledge and experience and you know meditating for hours every day while she was pregnant with me. Wow.
Yeah that's pretty pretty cool. So you you've been absorbing this since option? Yeah, she she tells me, you know, that's funny. I always have tried. Try to take everything with a grain of salt. You don't know for sure, but she tells me that when I was born I came out laughing like I wasn't crying.
At all. I was like, and she said, the whole like birth experience is blissful and joyful. Wow, as I don't like, I've seen a few, I got four kids and a few birth now. So I'm like really well. That's what that's what she says.
Well my wife is six months pregnant so we'll just we'll see if the baby comes out Blissful. Right. I think my brother actually I know that for a fact. My brother came out and he wasn't crying. He was just kind of looking around and State of Wonder and bewilderment and they actually had to like just shake Him a little bit to make sure that he was, he was okay.
And that's, that's actually my and I should confirm it a little bit. Like my son was born like that. Yeah. When he, when he came out, he was the one who was born here in Bali. Yeah. So he when he was born, he, he was like, he came out and he was just, like, completely calm.
It is looking around and the Midwife who was with us with got a little bit freaked out, actually, because she was, she was like, is he okay? Yeah. She's so used to baby crying and like and she was like, don't do I have Kill him and get him to. And, and the other meet the assistant Midwife who was there was like, he's breathing, he's fine, just not just chill, you know, it's fun.
It's just, you know, I was like so, yeah, it's it's been part of my family law as long as your question, these things. But I have seen it with my own eyes, it is possible. Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe we can maybe that'll happen with a real good idea. I hope so I hope so.
Yeah, it is Leo meditating a lot one while his yeah, she is as light as much as she can. She's also, you know, I'll sleep just sitting with the baby. I'm playing music for the baby and yeah. Lots of calm relaxing, jungle vibes from it's very, very lucky to live here.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So then my, when I was five, my dad taught me to like a formal technique of meditation and I was fairly diligent with it as a kid, I can then they never forced it on me and I really appreciate that. I think one of the big mistakes people make when they Arrays are mindful, child is to be so strict and doctrinaire about at the kid ends up hating it.
I saw that happen with a few of my friends, whose parents were also a meditation teacher. Yeah, I was very appreciative my parents never forced me to do it, but I was fairly diligent with it. And then when I was 16, I remember, remember this moment when I was 16 and I was like, I really need to investigate if meditation is like, just a bunch of BS or if it's actually like good.
Yeah, you know, so I talked to my dad and I said Said to him like, you know, if I want to really determine how good this is for me, what I need to do and he's like, well, you have to do it every day twice a day for three months and here's his command to me, then was like, do that.
And it's like planting a seed. Yeah. And that seeds going to grow every day if you, if you watered watered and that will grow every day. And by the end of three months, it'll be like a tree. You know, it'll be really powerful and strong.
And then at the end of that three month, period, he said, If you don't love it, stop and never meditate. Again, it's a waste of time. I was like okay that's good. I think it's sales and it for meditation pretty but I actually say that to all my students. Yeah, I repeat that to every every time I have a class now always like, you know, three months, you know, plant the seed water, and if you don't love it in three months, thence don't ever meditate against top
basically 180 meditations. Yeah, you should like that should be enough. Yeah, you're out if it's good and you know, the the Research on it shows that there's actually changes that happen in your body and your brain is someone up that period of time. So it was it's a well-founded idea. Absolutely.
So I did that when I was 16 and and then from that moment on basically until now I've just every day, that's what I do. Amazing. How long did he tell you to meditate for at that time? So the instruction at that time was every for every year of age, you do one minute.
So it's 15 minutes. Okay, 60 Minutes in the morning. 16 minutes in the evening. Yeah and then every now and then every year you add another minute, basically a meditation practice is quite manageable. Like other thing too.
I mean for people with have kids like you don't want to overburden your kids and say okay you got to meditate for two hours. Every day I come on. Yeah. 10 year olds not going to do that. Yeah. You you are you give them a sort of reasonable chunk of time that they can practice.
Yeah. And I just Kind of loved it from there, really deeply got into it. Then I rebelled like everyone over and said there had to be a moment where you were like, fuck this side medications terrible. I'm gonna go to. I don't know, I don't know if I ever had exactly that. But it was like, you know, my parents had Raised Me In This Very sort of meditate meditation and yoga. Like remember when I did I did yoga as a kid and Like no one knew what yoga was.
Yeah. When I was a kid, like, I talk to my friend, like I never heard of this thing like, what the hell, you know? And so I forget that it was your childhood spent in Sydney or America in Sydney. Okay? That's what I thought.
Okay. Grew up in Sydney and then you move to America when you were well, it's like 21 or 22 something around that. Yeah. Okay, go ahead. So go back. So I was doing like yoga and meditation. That was kind of like it was part of my life and Yeah, as I braised meat is very alternative as a vegetarian.
I was a meditator I was you know, kind of aspirant Yogi and so on and then like I got to be 17, I ran away from home and rather than ran it running over Moment by joining hippie commune. I ran away from home and joined an advertising agency craft and that would be the heavy company like to go in straight into capitalism.
Right? Right. Yeah. Had a bunch of, you know, did a bunch of different things. Like you know, very Different kind of life, from, probably what my parents had imagined I would did they express? Dissatisfaction with that, or they kind of let you have your journey or opinionated towards them mixture. I think, I think I think my dad was fairly accepting of it. My mom.
I think it hit her pretty hard. She was the one who was really hoping I would grow up to become like the new Guru of the movement being, you know, it was, I think it hit her a little bit harder than than my dad did. But yeah.
And the most part, like, what are you going to do as a parent? You know, you sort of have to accept that. Your kids are going to be different and yeah, you know, move on, and let them be who they are. So I think, yeah, for the most part, they're okay with it.
So, was there where there ever moments as a teenager when you looked at your parents who have spent so many hours meditating and was it ever intimidating to maybe see how they were able to handle stress with a certain level of ease?
Or was there ever a moment where like, I don't know if I'll ever be able, Able to live up to this, right? Yeah. Like when I was a kid, I thought my dad was like, literally a wizard. Like, I, you know, to me in my eyes he was just like a person had magic powers, you know? And it was I was always wondering like, my parents read my mind.
Like they actually do. They have like psychic ability. I got it was it was actually to that level where I was kind of like you know, they were they were I didn't know how far that whole world went out, you know, and you probably watched other people treat your dad. Like they were wizard.
Yeah. So maybe the world's is reaffirming their belief. That my father is actually, this is like reverence and devotion and stuff to to them. And and yeah, it's an interesting. Like there's lots of different aspects of like when I when I talk to kids who had the same upbringing as me, even if they came from a different group. Like I had a friend who have a friend rather who was raised in the Hari Krishna.
Organization. And of course, like very different practices, very different, belief systems, but so many similarities in terms of, like, the way that we viewed our elders and the people around us that most people just can't relate to. Yeah.
If you had, if you had more of a normal upbringing, like you didn't just have like Indian rishi's like coming over to your house, not a normal thing. Yeah. There wasn't this expectation that you would like be able to pronounce unscrew it properly. As a kid do yoga and meditation and stuff like that. So that was yeah that was fairly normal from from my upbringing, to have that kind of vibe around. Yeah.
And and it did it. Yeah. So to answer your question, yeah, I definitely had that there was a sort of intimidating vastness to when a white, what I perceived as they are, sort of knowledge level and level of attainment of sort of Enlightened States Of Consciousness and so on. And then it was also, you know, there's also this juxtaposition because at the same time, you see the human side of it or you know, and it's like, oh, but hang on a second and I just saw you getting really angry at
someone. What's up with that? Yeah. You know, you just got really angry with me over like some minor thing like you're a human being. What? Yeah, I thought you were this, you know, person up on high but I think that that's so important just is especially just to say out loud and to share with the world.
That that meditation, teachers they can attain certain levels of amazing Consciousness and were able to respond to stressful moments, for the most part, really consciously, but we're still human beings. Totally. And I, when I, when I teach my yoga teacher trainings and my lead people through meditation trainings, and I always tell people at very quickly, like, please knock me off my pedestal, please recognize that I am still a human being and one of the The
things that one of my teachers said to me very early on was all the practice does, is it makes the moments of fear and anxiety smaller and smaller and smaller. And the moments of clarity are bigger and bigger and bigger. That doesn't mean this moments of insanity are ever gone. Yeah.
They're just smaller and less intense and the moments of peacefulness and calm, and it's a great way of putting it. Yeah, yeah. I I think of it the same way and I actually have a term for so you know, popping the guru bubble. Yeah.
Just something that I actually want to happen like when I teach when I teach large groups, I often do reverse staging where it's like, I want to sit lower than the audience I want. I want everything that would normally put the odds in favor of someone kind of looking up and seeing this Flex of deity level person. We're getting married That so that they're like, literally looking down at me.
Yeah. And I want to, you know, start without a whole lot of like flair and hullabaloo about like, who I am and how great I am. I want what I say to either resonate or not resonate and to win them over. I want, I want, I want to win over a group every time by just the strength of what I have to say and how much it resonates with them. And I think it's really important to let people know like, you know, You do these things and like there's in ments value to all these practices but
it doesn't make you into a different type of creature. You know? You're not like a different species. Yeah. You still have. We are these Divine Souls living inside of a monkey? Yeah, like we are, we are literally lightly of Olives, my client minimum actually with 20/20. I don't know for evolved.
I honestly have no idea whether we've actually Evolved. Yeah. Yeah. But we have all these same reactions. Yeah. And I like the way your teacher put that I like the way, you know, it's like think of it as being less and less. I've heard one of my future say it kind of from the same thing but from a different angle which is like your conception of yourself becomes so much larger that it's always still there. Yeah.
But it's it's like you're you have this expansiveness of Consciousness and this thing that used to be entirely who you are like your entire identity was wrapped up. In this one, terrible thing. Now that just seems like a little tiny dot in the midst of his vast State.
And, you know, it's If you, if you think about this from the, like, the theoretical construct of the most advanced level of Enlightenment, right? It's like a person who let's say theoretically like as is written in The Vedas.
A person could be so enlightened that their Consciousness is the universe. Yeah, right. It's like so, you think about like I'm Anna conscience is like a Galaxy, or it's like this vast interconnected spiral of gravity, and, you know, blah, blah blah have is vast great concept. And at the same time, it's like, yeah. But their Consciousness is also an alcoholic and their Consciousness is also like a dog. Yeah.
And it's like that the same thing and it's and it's like this this idea that like if you think of Consciousness is being infinite that is inclusive of everything including dark our stuff. Yeah. And the worst in the lowest in the dirtiest, in the whatever.
But it's like that's that's a tiny fraction compared to like the Galactica. Yeah. And, you know, yeah, and I think of it that way and it's a really useful framing, even if you don't believe believe in that way. If you don't believe that Consciousness can good that level, it's a good way to frame it so that you can just of understand conceptually that's the direction you're going where I was like, you want your your sense of self to not be so wrapped up in something, it's so
small. Yeah, like I meet people who are have a lot of my students. And my clients who are they come because they've gone through a crisis. Yeah. And the crisis could be An addiction. Let's say, like that's a really common entry point where someone's like, I need to learn to meditate some, I'm an alcoholic.
This is a compulsion. There's right impulsive things. A compulsive react reactionary way of living that we have to learn to untangle, right? Well, they or they fall into one of the two, the two versions of like the relationship addiction, where it's like, a the love addict or love boarded the SEC, the y-yeah that to bastard, even terms of like the sex addicted person and the relationship addicted person.
Yeah. Yeah, well and and it's like their sense of who they are. Their entire identity is wrapped up in like a bottle of vodka or like the genitals. Well like how is my heart feeling right now? You know, it's like the entire sense of like that's entirely me everything. Everything is just that.
Yeah. You know it's like could we expand that a little bit? So it was inclusive of just a little bit a little more than yeah very small conceptual idea what? I am. Yeah, the ice and my relationship. I am my addiction. Well, I am dying.
This bottle of booze, you know. It's like that's all I am. I'm my dick. Yeah. Like someone's like that. They literally have that that sense of like, that's the only part of them that brings them happiness. Yeah. And it's like, wow, could we expand that?
So that like more of your body experiences happiness? Yeah, could be expanded. So your entire body experiences happiness, could it really expand that to like you and your lover both experienced happiness? Expand up. So like you, your lover and your best friend also experienced happiness, and then you just expand it out from there, till you have a community of people and you're like, all of a sudden oh yeah, I'm still still might like booze or whatever. That's not entirely me and I
still might really like sex, but it's not entirely who I am. Yeah, you know, that that expansiveness of the sense of self makes those those moments of trauma or the moments of whether the compulsive aspects of I self-identity.
They Still be there, but they're not entirely you anymore. It's like there's a little bit of the space of intelligence in between that allows you to respond versus react. Yeah. And I love that. They're responding versus react thing is so huge.
Yeah. It's like now you have a choice. Yeah, you know, and I think like it said, like that the meditation men, it's not even just meditation. It's, I think just really looking being aware that you have a problem and being able to in being willing to look at the problem. Actively.
Yeah. You know, and being humble enough to just just kind of dissect it and then we can give ourselves path such as meditation, but that meditation is not. I've never, I don't know many people that have been able to get sober just from meditating at it's usually a whole process. Yeah.
You know. So I think that's another misconception that a lot of people have about the spiritual Community is that is that meditation can solve all of your problems and then it just becomes the new Addiction. Yes, right. It's like that's that becomes the new thing. Yeah, I always tell people that when they come to me, it's like meditation is not the thing that solves everything, but it's a great to the best first step.
Yeah, you know, if you can, if you can solve your thoughts and everything else arises from your thoughts, there's like every choice you make. Every decision you make to do something else can be made properly because you've got your thoughts properly arranged. Yeah, you know, and so that's, it's a really great entry point and then the people who Then treat it like oh, that's now the be-all and end-all.
I do, I'm done, you know, I don't do any more personal development now. I meditate, you know, the, they always run into more problems, but if you if you have it, if you say like, okay, we're going to bring this meditative awareness but thing that you develop and practice.
I'm going to bring it to more and more aspects of your life. Then all of a sudden you've got the capacity to be like to to make better choices about like are you going to choose the the salad or the chocolate cake? Yeah, if you're feeling really stressed and anxious, then you're Going to choose the chocolate cake every time. Yeah, you feeling like your minds calm. And at ease, then you can go like, hmmm. Maybe I'll choose the chocolate cake. Maybe I'll choose the salad, you
know? And it's like you, you've now got that capacity which he didn't have before they still have to make the choice. Yeah. If you still choose the chocolate cake every time, not bad to have it once in a while, but if you do that every time, then you haven't actually grown at all.
So you have to bring that to make make that choice, but it gives you the capacity to make the choice and I totally agree in one thing that I always say to my students is, I asked the question, A teacher training was like one of the last time you did something really stupid when you were calm, when you were taking care of yourself, right? So it's not my job to teach you anything. It's my job to allow you to give you tools so you can remove the ignorance from yourself and you
can trust that when you're calm and centered and taking care of yourself, we rarely make and we don't make dumb decisions. There's there's, there's an intelligence in a wisdom that guides us. I'm stealing that one, by the way. Yeah, please.
But I think that that that there is, and then people begin to have they trust their own intelligence, their own intuition, which is actually going to lead me to my next question. So what do you do when you're training other teachers? Do you have Frank discussions with them about? How dangerous it can be to start to believe your own hype. Oh yeah.
Like like that's something that's not discussed. Like, like a yoga teacher. Perhaps, like, a male yoga teacher is going to get a lot of attention from women. Oh, yeah. And that teacher needs to be able to handle that attention responsibly and if you're not mature enough, you're going to get yourself into a lot of trouble and you're going to hurt people.
Yeah. And I mean the same thing can go with meditation, teacher. Oh God. Yeah, whether it's weather. Using your power disruptively sexually or even just being manipulative or just starting to believe that you are this this wizard you know this person that is better than us people and it's so dangerous.
It really is and it's such a slow it's because I think I've had to learn to embrace my desire for excellence. I want Excellence, right? And then if I become really good at something, then my classes Are going to get bigger and then my trainings are going to start to sell out and all of this starts to happen, and then that's the dangerous part.
Like so I'm lucky to have had a really good father and other people in my life that like, you know, I'll call my friends from Chicago. They're like, ooh, you clean your guitar for your friends. You're going to make them cry.
And like I'm so grateful that they like make fun of me for being this pussy, hate to use that word, but being this like winsky new age guy, And, and it's so good for me because I'll have like a crowded yoga class and then I'll call my friends need. Like will you playing your guitar? I'm gonna cry in front of the girls. I'm like, thank God.
I have people like that in my life. Otherwise I might start to believe that. I'm like this special person. Yeah. So you have to answer your question. That's that's great. But it's like II. We do have these really Frank conversations about it and it's you know, like the I've I've watched it and it's like like I think we can all recognize that they're the people in the world, like the Harvey Weinstein's or whatever.
Who are like they just seem like an evil people. You know, it's like that. It's like it seems like at some point that like I've actually met him too and he just came across before all the stuff went happy. Yeah. But public but he just came across that way and I just like just seems like just wow like like bad to the core or last, you know.
And then, you know, you the, the mistake that people make they go into like a yoga teacher training and, you know, you mentioned wisely men, I think, but women as well like I've definitely seen this happen, it can happen.
It's not, there's no not a gender to this but where you go and shoot things like, what's not gonna happen to me, I'm not one of those people. I'm like, I'm a good person, you know. And like I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to go in like I have the best of intentions.
I just want to be like a help people to relax and be happy and so on. But But this process happens and I've watched it happen to people many times like over and over again. And and it is, it comes the adulation that you can get in the position where you when you're a meditation teacher yoga teachers in front of a group of people the same as being, like a rock star or whatever.
Anytime you've got a group of people who are all just like, and yeah, you know, just think you're the best, then you're literally On the pedestal and people kind of have this imagined idea of who you are, Which is far inflated from who you actually are and it becomes very easy, there's a point where it's not you where you the good person who thinks you're a really great person. You're sitting there and like there's an opportunity to be abusive in some way.
And I think, you know, you pointed out could be sexual could be Financial, could be, you know whatever I Collide like a logical. All isn't, it was an opportunity to be abusive in some way but would benefit you in some way right? And your and people are coming and they're like offering that up to you, they're offering their bodies, they're offering their bank accounts are offering like whatever you want, you know and it's like you don't have to say yes to it, you just have to stop saying no.
You know, it's true and it's such a slippery slope. Yeah. And people will stand up there and it's like, I'm a good person, I'm not the kind of person who would do that, but I'm just gonna let this happen, you know? I'm just gonna and then then it's like all downhill, so it can happen to people who are like, I don't know. They're not like evil people, you know, they like people who, like, who, like mostly like, decent people. But it's like without having
done an immense amount of personal introspection and then having really, really These strong guiding principles that you stick to the yours that you obey, even when no one's looking. Yes, then that that is it's a real easy trap to fall into. You feel like it's also really important to have people in your life that would call you out on your like, I find it. Yes.
Like I'm grateful that I know. Sure. Other men and women in my life friends, family members that like they'll start to tell me if yeah, you know. Yeah. And I'm not work. Oops, I think if you're if you are one of the people who sees yourself with being a good person, you know, it probably wouldn't work on like a Harvey Weinstein, double person.
Yeah, like, but it works on, you works on me if some, if if I was to do something and you and you will be like, hey Charlie, you know, that was really not cool. I'll be like, wait, Paul thinks I'm but, you know, yeah, I don't want that.
Yeah, and it would it would motivate me because I do see myself with me so it's like, in a way you have to work from that. The inner self conception, you know, like I think of myself as being a decent person. I want others to think of me as a decent person and as long as you have that sense of yourself and I think having other people around you to kind of help Corral you in the right direction. Super helpful.
Yeah, I think if you're a teacher that's not teachable something is wrong, right? Probably true. Yeah. And as teachers, we have to remain teachable or so. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of as an exception to that. I don't think there is.
I think that's probably very true. Yeah. So, within your personal growth, that how would you say? This is another thing to. So, so to kind of preface this Charlie is a very, he's not talking about, he's very successful meditation teacher, he's done very well for himself. But if you look at his Instagram, his Facebook, and all of the way that you put yourself out into the world, it's very humble and it's very you just look like a normal guy. So how were you able to build
what you've built and to have the reputation and not have to kind of Sir come to, you know, taking half naked bathroom selfies every week? I think that would probably cost more than yeah. Yeah, it's a good. It's a good question. What do you say to that?
Because, you know, I kind of told the line, you know I have my Instagram and it's called naked photos. Yes. You know they look good. You know, it's I think it's it's part of a, it's part of the game or my game and I don't I don't presume to Love it, or hate it.
But at the same time it's worked for me. Like, tell me to build my audience. Yeah, brand. But I always like to have underneath it. It being about transformation and changing yourself for the better. And expecting a big thing with me is like, hold yourself up to really high standards, not protectionism, which is that destroys you? Yeah, Excellence.
Empowers us, you know, really to set the bar high with out too high? Yeah, but bottom line is. So how do you see that in terms of being a teacher and like a whole like you need to turn yourself into a brand and and in like you need to you need to have this presence online and needs to be a consistent message and all of that like your kind of an example of like now you don't ya and I think I mean I want to come to this front position of like not judging
anyone. For what they do, of course yeah. It's like I have good friends who I think as people who have really high integrity and and do a great job and they're really good at the whole social media thing and they're like they know how to look sexy on camera and they are you know they yeah they sex it up.
Yeah and and it makes an entry point for someone who's not going to respond to like a high-minded philosophical Treatise that you post in. If I Academic Journal. Yeah, it's like there's there's there's definitely a case to be made to like how can you, how can you take something?
If you have that fundamental Integrity with what you teach, and what it, and it's really valuable and it's really going to help people. Like how do you get that out to as many people as possible and as part of that might be To, you know, kind of make a simplified version of it, where it's like you project an image out on social media, or traditional Media, or wherever you go and and bring have that Wide Open final so I can help people final into something.
And then once they're there, once you got them in the door then it's like you sell them on the high integrity. Stay. As long as really great. Yeah. And then and then their lives transform and it's awesome. And you know the sexy Instagram photo was just the thing that brought them in the door.
And so like I've seen people work that angle really really well and and I love it actually, when I see someone do that really well, and it kind of execute on that strategy really well, it makes me really happy because it's, you know, it's like, wow, I'm happy for your success and I'm happy that people are coming to someone who I know, has a lot of integrity and that they, you know, they happened to look good, you know, which is you use what you have for?
Sure, but I do I do challenge this idea that you need to do that. Yeah. And and and I'm glad you brought up that I am a bit of an example of someone who doesn't put much, I don't put much effort into social media. Yeah. And I don't have a huge following.
I know how to get a huge following if I wanted to have one. I'm pretty sure I could have a huge following pretty quickly. If you're friends with lots of people with you, ya know I've got tons of friends, I've got like, millions of followers right?
Yeah. And it's like, yeah, you know, and it's like, I know. I know how you do that. I know. I know what the steps are. Yeah. And There's you know maybe maybe one day I will that's I'm not writing it off as a possibility.
Yeah but it's a matter of it's like I think there are many different Pathways, to getting what, you know, what? Your gift out in front of people. Yeah, and for me, social media and that whole sort of public Persona thing, hasn't been something I've really pushed.
Like I barely have a brand. Yeah, you know, I had don't have a huge following. I don't try to build that up even though I'd sort of know how to do that. And I know people who know I could, they're at least Just a phone call away. Who could like Snap their fingers and make it all happen. Yeah.
And yet all of our classes are for all of our Retreats fill up. Yeah, we get people to come and it's because I've really put a lot of emphasis on other aspects of getting my message. Our yeah, you know and so and I think also you've been doing this for quite some time. How long have you been teaching public classes and public? Guiding public.
Trainings will 10. Is right. Yeah, took teacher training and I remember because like I quit my job right after Obama got elected. So it was like 2008 and of 2008 and right when the global financial crisis happened like willing to quit your job that much which it was. You didn't quit your job.
You detach from the material world. Yeah, that's like you did the and then and say, yeah, I decided to take that step of like, you know, trying to track taking Proper training. So I've been practicing obviously for a long time. Yeah, I wanted to actually train just like anyone else worth and learn how to do it.
Hang on, what was the question though? I kind of lost my thread, the question was you've had in your having a lot of success, but I wanted you to be able to know that you didn't. It wasn't handed to you. He looked at the kid does elements of it.
That was so there's like a good and bad side to having having like a famous, a meditation teacher Dad. Yeah. The good side of it. Of course is there's a lot of Embodied knowledge. Yeah, I didn't know how much I knew until I started teaching.
I like, wow, I actually know quite a yeah, of course. Yeah, that's kind of cool. Like, put me in front of a class and I can suddenly seemed quite profound. Yeah. Because this is all this stuff that's just been part of my life.
And in the end, the background of my life and that's super helpful. But the, the not helpful part of it is at first, when I, for the first few years that I was starting to get out, they aren't going to like, you know, Get students. And I was really kind of working to try to get people to come and take a class with me.
Yeah, it was anyone. I spoke to be like, oh yeah, that's so great. And always sounds really awesome and you're Tom's son, right? Yeah. Her like, oh, cool. And then click go and take a class with him. There's no. We wanted to teach your son, the son of the guy, the guy that good and bad. So I did have some parts of it handed to. I don't want to like like make out like I just kind of Pop from nowhere and all of a sudden yeah successful there's there's a certain amount of like Prestige
that comes with the name and comes with having people father whose established that. And he's quite quite wise and Brilliant and so on. But you did build it from the ground up and you weren't there and you weren't very hard.
Yeah, where you're at? So I guess with the whole with the whole Rat Race Rebellion, where were you working? When Obama got elected, were you doing something that you didn't like and then you quit and and exactly to teach meditation.
So let's talk about that aspect. Yes. Phase of your life. Yeah. So in 2008. So I had just my wife and I we had tried to live in Australia and not had much. Success. Yeah, it just you know we decided to go off grid live like live on a farm out in the middle of nowhere in the rainforest and everything and it was it was tough. Like we that bad idea like sometimes it doesn't work out. So the whole Rat Race Rebellion thing. Sometimes you go and try to live
in the commune Off the Grid and it sucks. Yeah, absolutely. So we had that experience for like a year when we had when we do this when we only had one kid and my wife got a All from her aunt and who lived in Atlanta. And she said, I, you know, I've got a job for you here in Atlanta, if you want to come back to America.
Yeah, so we went back. We got on just as we were about to get on the plane to go back to America, the job actually fell through. We'd already committed. Yeah. So you're in on America. So I was in America and all of a sudden it's like, okay, you know, we've got we luckily we had a place to stay but we had no money. We're like literally living on credit card with zero Bank. Balance.
Right? And part of the journey. I feel like most people that I know go through like a nice Financial moment of heart financial hardship. So art of the journey. Yes. And at that time I was I had didn't have any static. I had didn't have like a green card or any legal status in America other than I'd applied for my green card.
And so you get a life of a sort of little cards as you're allowed to give authorization to work in America. Yeah, that was all I had you were you were barely legal I was barely able to speak. So yeah, I tried to try to get a job at a bunch of different places and no one wants to hire you when you've got one of those cards.
Yeah. They're like but you know you might be deported next month so like why would we hire? Yeah. The only place I can get a jobs at the Apple Store in Atlanta. So I was like slinging iPods in the Apple Store. Amazing. Yeah. In Atlanta in Atlanta.
Wow. And then you're like screw this. I'm in a shitty thing is actually love that job. I look back at that time it was a funny as a really funny progression to go through its that had like more prestigious jobs before. Yeah.
But it's like suddenly being an American like working in retail, you know. But I actually love that job. There was so much that I learned from it and just seeing how this amazing company, operates course, and seeing it from the ground level, where you're interacting face-to-face with customers. The lot of things I learned from that, that I actually applied in my business.
Now that that, you know, Like what? I think one of the things is the art of anti selling. This is something that Apple does really really well and that I kind of I realize that's what they do and they don't really say it but they kind of make a policy that's like an unofficial policy. Yeah, it's like you don't you don't go in to sell the product. You just kind of stand next to the product and point at it? Yeah, okay, just put it is awesome. Yeah, it should speak for
itself. Yeah, you know, and I'd have people come in. And they believe that I'd be like, well, I'm and this was in the days, when, like, he sees Windows PCS were still, really, really popular hadn't come and Apple has destroyed. Everyone far from it.
Yeah, pull. It really just kind of that upward swing like you know, the iPhone had just come out. The first iPhone had just come out 2007. Yeah. So They were just on that had the iPod and I was like this beginning of an upward swing, but everyone's still very skeptical.
People come in. They be like convince me, this thing works, you know, and it's going to work, it's going to be one Microsoft Word and blah blah blah. And I talk to them like well, you know, it might not be the right product for you, you know. That's great.
Yeah. And I'd be like what? Yeah. And they'd be really shocked that I'd say that. I like, well, let's talk about what you actually need from this thing and see if it works. I don't know that it will work, you know, like, And then it immediately shocked people to like, wait I'm going to surprise gonna be honest with me about this thing that I think that that's the whole like abundance Consciousness.
So when somebody is interested in my teacher training, I always get him on the phone and I'm like, well I got to make sure this is the right training for you because because I would never want to sell someone a teacher training.
If they wanted a more gentle yoga teacher training in the come to my power yoga teacher training, like why would I do that? And my, yeah, exactly, my whole, Idea, is the right. People will find me and it's just grown as long as I have integrity.
And I believe in what I'm doing. Yeah. Then again, that's just sells itself. And it works really well when you've got something great. Yeah, the thing is, you know, the Apple products are awesome, they were really good, you know? And so when I had this conversation out and people would come from a position of trust there and if they knew, I wasn't trying to push something on. Yeah, then there's a like, okay well you know let me see if it would work.
Yeah and then they are kind of arguing the The side of it. And then at the other point I just got like yeah. Ok, cool. So you want to buy this computer? I've got yes, yeah, exactly. I really and I got quite good at that.
I learned kind of the art of sales. Yeah. But not from a, like, traditional sales perspective and I really, really enjoyed that. And I just enjoyed the kind of commitment to Excellence and I loved also something else. Another thing I really learned that up which I think you know, it's become much more relevant now is at that.
At time. It was like the home of diversity. Yeah. And this I have a different perspective on diversity, in businesses to what a lot of people have because I saw it in action there. Yeah. Atlanta It's George's a bit, you know the state of Georgia is a pretty conservative State and there was a kind of a joke at our Apple Store of like this is the place where in the closet Georgian gay guys come to come out, he would have all these new recruits had come to work at the Apple store and then come out of
the closet like after two or three months. Wow, it happened over and over and over again because they felt safe, there felt safe there. Beautiful. And and it was also like people with tattoos people who had Punk hairdo. Those are guy, who's to come to work in a dress. Yeah.
And, and, and he, and he had like tattoos and piercings and everything. And all he had to do was put the Apple t-shirt on over the dress and they're like, that's cool. Yeah. To work here. Yeah. So they accept that all kinds of people and but the One requirement is you had to be really good. You had to be really good at your job and that was it, and it didn't matter what you looked like, or what sexual orientation, you were what color your skin was you? You could work there, you get a
job. So it's a very very diverse. Yeah, transgender people and African Americans and Australians and Australians Australian immigrants with Otto. Yeah. Women organization. Crappy pseudo, right? Legal visa. And so like they were like if this person smart and they're good, they can work here and the amazing team that was there.
Yes. So inspiring to work with them. Every decks are all really, really good at their job and I realized that these people all of them couldn't get a job somewhere else. Yeah, you know, and all these other companies are missing out on this amount of talent because they say, if you have a tattoo, you can't work.
Yeah. Unwilling to look Beyond. Yeah, beyond the surface. Yeah, that's a my perspective on diversity is like, it's less about, like, filling up a quota and saying, like we have to have an Asian, you have to have a black person. We have to have a gay person below. It's like, dude, calendar, tap into this talent pool. That is so underutilized right now as like you're guaranteed to succeed, like hire really good, people treat them well they pay them well, trained your yeah,
yeah. It should be so obvious and that's why I there's a lot that I learned that and I kind of I loved working there actually. Yeah. But there was a point that in paid very well. Yeah. Okay, my wife's pregnant, for a second, second time. Now, another kid coming.
Yeah, I better find something that I say, I Love and secondly, that, you know, I can actually like expand and make into my own thing. I like, what am I good at? Oh, it's meditation there, you know, it's so beautiful that for you, your experience though, that because you grew up in the house that you grew up in that you viewed being a meditation teacher, as a job where you could actually support a family.
Yeah. Because like, for my perspective, yeah, growing up in the Midwest of Chicago. Yeah. As in as a musician. And yoga teacher. Like that's not a job where people are told like, oh you can actually like raise a family, right? But you were able to have that experience because you're because of your parents and they were able to actually write. Well I had that had particularly the model of my father who is doing quite well.
Yeah, you know he was both from like that Integrity point of view and being a great teacher. He's like really one of the best and also like he was successful like he was financially successful. Yeah. And And so I looked at that I was like, wow, I know, maybe I could do that. Yeah.
You know, had there was just that you know and having role models and there's a weird thing isn't there like In the kind of Wellness spiritual world of like you know supposed to be financially successful. Yeah. And if you are people kind of yeah they kind of look down.
It's kind of weird. Yeah it's kind of weird. It's like as though that automatically makes you like suspect or something like that. Yeah I think it's really important for people to like No no that is possible. You know like it's possible to both have integrity and also be financially successful and there's no.
There's it seems like there's no limiting belief is what they would say. You don't have that limiting belief because you were lucky enough to be raised in an environment where it just wasn't even really considered. Yeah, yeah. But yet having that model made it feel like, okay I could step into this world and get a try at least. You know, and it didn't work go back to working at the Apple Store.
So okay, so then you quit and you went then and your your background originally wasn't TM. Was it back? Was it TM back then? Or was it? Yeah, so my dad might both my parents. My mom was like the head of the TM organisation in Australia.
She was like the head. The top, the top person. Yeah. My dad kind of split from that group. He was also, he was considered to be one of the Premier a teacher. Yeah. He was like one of the top teachers I think, for a long time, he had like, the record for the most students that he had taught your father learned from the Maharishi. Yeah, okay.
Yeah. And what was he around, when the beetle was he actually around? Yes, I know. I know he went, he was like, at the ashram. That's what I thought and India. Yeah, while the Beatles were learning how to meditate. Yeah.
Yeah, I always think that like, really the first person who brought you over to the world, more than any one was George Harrison. Like I really like we're all kind of people got really into that because the Beatles, they were just such a worldwide phenomenon and then going there.
So many other people will like I got to go to India because the Beatles are doing all this stuff. And this music is amazing. Music is coming here and then and they just dive in. Yeah, still to this day. There's the ashram, where they learned in rishikesh, which is has been restored now. It was like a ruin for a while.
Yeah. I was there three years ago? It's beautiful. Yeah, it's really cool. It's almost like a little Museum. Yeah. Yeah. I've been saying the restored version. I've Just Seen photos. I've been there when I was still kind of like the jungle was taking it over.
Yeah. It's still kind of has like that. It's death. I don't know if it's actually usable. It's more like a museum. Yeah, was a tourist attraction? Yeah, come there to like see the place Rita's. Not the Beatles. Learn to meditate?
Yeah, she's kind of cool. Yeah, yeah. Now I think, I think you're right. I think George Harrison was a huge, huge door opening people to learn. And to, to realize it, like, this was a paw. Yeah, we take. Okay, so then fast forward from there.
You went and you became a meditation teacher, and you worked for a few years in Los Angeles. That's where we met. Yeah, that was, that's right. Yeah. Um, yes, I took, I took my teacher, the teacher training with my dad, like that called rappers like that. I want you to be as hot on me as you are with all the other students, I don't want any special breaks and he was like, well, Yeah, I was going to be he wasn't going to go easy on it. That's good.
Yeah. No nepotism. Yeah. And say, you know, I want to take I want to take you teacher training with a bunch of other people. And so we went to India for part of it. And up another part, it was done in Arizona, and then, yeah, then I basically traveled out to Los Angeles. And rented, a tiny little Studio that was like as big as like this.
This chair and out to where you are, literally had like two chairs in it and it's tiny little Studio near Venice Beach with your whole family or just you. So it was at that time as my wife and our firstborn daughter and she was pregnant and gave birth to our second daughter in that. Yeah, in that time period.
Yeah. And yeah, it was really difficult you know, like there were it took There was, there was a lot of times when I'd be like, I'd advertised one of my courses and have like no people show up. Yeah. You know, and it's like that starting out moment. It took, it really took like a couple of years before I got a really, any traction at all.
And there was a lot of self-doubt, a lot of questioning in that time, you know, I so necessary. Yeah, back, right. Like how necessary those moments were for the persecuted for us to Develop the quality of perseverance. It's like people want.
If people want a really amazing, beautiful life, they're going to have to work for it. Well, the other thing too, I find really interesting is the students. I had back then that when I'd get like one person show up to my class. Yeah, you know, and I still have a connection with every one of those students from now from that first year or two that aging.
And like, I remember every single one of them because they were at their worst So important to me. Yeah, yeah. Like like just like and and now it's like, I still care about my students of course, but like, if I teach a class, I'll have like, you know, 50 people or some Whatever by the end of the class, like, the classes over and I'm like, wait, who are those?
Yeah, I really like it's been thousands of people and I still love him and everything but it's like it's there it was a very special time. What I learned a lot of the skills of how to how to do it. Yeah. And how to How to teach. And I remember like, one of the big things I learned then was the art of simplification because I used to go into these classes and I'd just be like, I'm going to unload like all this wisdom to all the nose wins wisdom, the family. It's something that people
learning how to do things like that. After a few years of struggling, things started to pick up for you and I You would, your career was already pretty established when you and your wife decided to move your whole family to Bali, Indonesia. You were doing well.
Oh, totally. Yeah. So we had it though. The turning point for me, I went to New York with my Dad. Yeah. And at that time like I was kind of supplementing my income but helping to manage him. Yeah. And that right there is an opportunity for resentments.
To build up so much. Yes. We're lucky. We're both meditators. Yeah, it's good. That way. Yeah so but my dad's assistant that is just like well technically he worked for me. Really? Yeah yeah. So so we had we had an arrangement where he was actually technically my employee but but not in reality, I was on paper.
The so I went to New York, he taught a course in New York then he he, he went home again. Yeah. And someone on a friend of mine from New York was starring in a Broadway musical that was just tanking. Like, yeah, it was just, it was like, it was famously.
One of the biggest disaster stories on Broadway was this Spider-Man? Oh yeah, remember. Yeah. Let's play music. Horrible. Yeah, and it was just like they were having a people they have any accidents and like yeah. In a serious injuries and had a friend who like, you know, was on in that show. Yeah, she was like, look, we need you, like, you need to come and teach the whole cast had a minute, how to meditate, so, I did and we had this like, okay, I'm going to stay on for, for a couple weeks.
Yeah. And then like, it was like the Broadway Community became like my Mary's recruit. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, that's a like, the were going around. Like this is guy teachers meditation. He's, you know, and all these like different Broadway musicals that into like because they all had friends and they're all in other Productions and stuff.
And yeah, it's a very tight-knit group, super tight. Yeah. And so that was like the first success. You know, I was like, oh my God, I can do this. Yeah. And and then it kind of took off from there. Yeah. My career was kind of cranking Along by the time I decided to move out here to Barley.
Yeah. And so what spark that decision to move your family halfway across the world and come here and what was how is that Ben and yeah. So you know, this kind of fast forwarding quite a few years from where the story left off at this.
At that point, I had a lot of really like, you know, celebrity clients and very wealthy clients and so on one of my kind of very successful wealthy clients had wanted me to come to Bali and run a one-person Retreat for him.
Haha. Yeah, and so we actually rented a place not far from here. I just up the river from where we're sitting right now, we rented out. Really nice Villa oval over the overlooking, the valley? Yeah. And And yeah, we did like two weeks of like intensive meditation and Yoga and Fitness and diet stuff like it. And I was like working with him to like, get him feeling amazing.
Yeah. And as and that went really well and that the end of it at the end of that Retreat a one-person Retreat. I meant I called up a friend of mine who was already living here. Yeah and I came down and have a chat with her and she also was at, she was a single mom, she had some kids, but she was living in this beautiful Villa, you know, and she had a full-time Nanny and a cook and a housekeeper.
And I was like, I know, meanwhile, I we've got like four kids, my wife's in Florida were at where we were renting a house at that time. Yeah. And you know she we're like doing all look trying to look after changing diapers and no action clothes and dishes and like house getting I'm destroyed and getting crayons everywhere and like and then I call my wife up and and she's like yeah you know global warming, our house is flooding, you know, like the
water table is rising up and then literally standing in the living room up to their knees in water while you're in Vale in this. Like I'm sitting there with my friend who's got this like awesome setup and I and importantly like she wasn't Rich.
Yeah. Right. But she's Living this kind of millionaire lifestyle. Yeah, a beautiful Villa with a pool and a housekeeper, and a nanny, and all this stuff. And I'm like, a, my wife got like, oh my God, you're like really stressed out because she's able to manage for kids without me.
Yeah, I'm like honey, we're gonna move to Bali and she was cool with it. She was very ready. Wow. She was very she actually had funnily enough when she was in elementary school. I think she had one of her teachers. Took a trip to Bali and then came and did a slideshow for her when she was like a little kid and she at back, then was like, I'm going to live in Bali one day if that was like her own little. Yeah.
So when I said that she was, she was like, yeah, ok, cool. We're gonna get on a plane and and then there's like two months later, you said right? Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, that was my major. Yeah. So is the end of May that I had that in 2016, but I had that call. And then by the beginning of August, we had moved. Wow.
Okay, so you moved to Indonesia, he moved to Bali and I'm sure what, you know, what people always assume is that my life, is this 24/7 Blissful experience and everything is perfect here and yeah, and that is definitely not true.
So some of the the hurdles that you that you experienced here when you first moved here, it's it's wonderful here. But it's not perfect. Amen. Yeah, I think I love my life now. Yeah, much more than I did when I first got here.
Like now I feel now that I understand this Yeah, I'm like in the flow with it. I know what you can and can't do. Yep. I know, I know what the sacrifices are and I've learned to live with them and I know how to get around them in some cases. Like I love it now I'm here.
But yeah, when we first arrived, I mean, you know, it's like being in a developing country, you know, it's a beautiful developing country, but it's the developing country, there's no getting around it. You know you've got there's a lot of Like, a lot of things you take for granted.
Yeah. And a country like, you know, Australia or America. We just don't have here like, especially having kids here, you know, like one of the things that people do in America Australia is like take their kids to a playground. Yeah, can take the kids to the library. The beach is a playground here.
Yeah, the bitch is there is image is great but like there's there's no like Like there isn't that investment in public space here? That makes that easy and so like kids are like okay cool we're just like in a place where there's like always motorbike screw going around everywhere.
Yeah. Food isn't good? Yeah, yeah. Like that's what that's a huge challenge when you got can then finding a school for them that's like up to your standards but is also reasonably priced reasonably priced and not some crazy International Private School set up for diplomats or something, you know.
So all those challenges that you kind of just take for granted those things, there's worked out and in a developed country is really that was that was pretty difficult to manage. And then finding a place like, you know these, a lot of these houses here that just looks so beautiful and a great when you're here for like a two-week vacation.
Yeah. But then they have all these little things. You know what you know you know and there's all these little things that just don't work when you actually live in them. Yeah like oh God this place is like it's a dump. Yeah.
Like he's beautiful. It looks so good on Instagram. Yeah, that's all they need it. For exactly. They need to work for two weeks while someone's here than they can. Have. A repair crew, come and fix everything, stopped a little thing. Yeah, yeah.
A lot of a lot of challenges like that. And then, There's we were lucky in that we had at that time already built up an online meditation course business. Yeah. And so for us like, you know, of course there were Financial challenges and moving here but we didn't have to land here and then find a job.
Yeah, you know it was we had a sort of portable source of income part of portable business. Part of what made it possible for us to do that is we developed you know seven years ago. Now we started doing on In courses and so that.
That had gotten to the point where it was like a sustainable business. Yeah. And you know, we could manage that from anywhere. So that was a huge weight that was lifted from us. We serve we would expect a check every every quarter.
Yeah. That would be pretty good. That we could live like a king. Oh yeah, here, yeah. So but then you when you moved here, you actually took that course and built a much larger more, significant course, caress truth. Because not the course that you have now. Now, is you built that?
And you made that here. That's probably. Yeah. And that course is it's a full 200. Our minutes online, meditation teacher training. Yeah, and I've looked you showed me parts of it's incredible. It's incredibly thorough. Thank you. I think you told me like you like it almost. You must have a nervous breakdown. You said it was the hardest thing you've ever done. Right.
Yeah. I putting that one together and you know and it was it was me and my wife you know she was also my business partner and co-creator of the training. Yeah we works just in Saying, hours for about six months, creating this thing. And yeah.
So initially we had a course. We had some courses that were, we had a partnership with mind-body grain, there's the wellness website. And we've done courses with them before we never done anything on our own. Yeah. And so working with them, it was great because they hired like directors and head camera people and they, you know, had you had web development people and all this and marketing and, you know, 15 million unique viewers every month on their website. And so, like, you know, it's
like everything was ready to go. Yeah. And it was all done for us. Yeah. It's that was I mean, you know, thank you mine but I agree and thank you for giving us that opportunity was awesome. I'm really appreciative of those guys for giving us a jump start, but that came to an end we're there as often business agreements do it was there was there was a point was like, okay this is not working in a place anymore, you know?
And and so and it came between quite abruptly and it's like okay well we have to work out. How do you like do? Ecommerce? How do you build a website? How do you shoot video? How do you edit video? How do you do music? Had a new promotion?
How do you do it? Like all these things that were like we really had no idea how to do it and so we had to shoot like 300 videos for it had to edit 300 videos, you know have hosting website e-commerce always into things like and then and also and also to write the content like make it good.
Yeah there's a lot of challenges Like, how do you make a meditation? Teacher training? That is something you'd normally have in person and you get to know the people and see them face-to-face and seeing how they're managing all the material.
Like, how do you make that into a like, an online experience where there's one person in Florida and another person in one star? Yeah. Like Pakistan South, South Africa. Yeah, you know, Croatia and I was like, no. Absolutely. And somebody like you who wants to maintain Integrity but you don't want it myself.
I don't I don't want to do it. Don't understand that socks. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah we heard and so yeah it was six months of just, I think it almost destroyed us. Physically. Almost destroyed our marriage. Almost just like everything else.
But such as, when you build building something great, that's all his that moment. Yeah. So intense. But yeah, it was really good and it was a success from day one. Yeah, you know, like, we are really lucky that there was so much with the end of the Mind Body. Green thing that always people emailing is like wins. The next.
When are you doing a thing? Like, yeah. When, you know, was a really lucky. We had that momentum. Yeah. As the day we launched, it was like, we're like, okay, we'll launch it. We're not expecting much as like oh oh. Oh, that's doing quite well.
Yeah. And like, okay, we better shoot the rest of the course because there's people have bought it now, we've got the end. We got to put it together. Yeah. Like the first month of it. Yeah, you know get it all done. So yeah and it's become this great thing. Now it's become That teacher training has, he's like the main thing that I do.
Yeah. You know, and it's we have just this year. We've we've had over like 250 people take it and yeah, it's great. Yeah, and yeah, it's and you know, we've got another one starting in September. I think so Les. And I we know like I think 44 of our friends have done your training and love it. Yeah, love it.
Yes. It comes very, highly recommend. Yeah. Charlie's meditation teacher training and it's it's something that it was also a big shift for us because I did have this background in like The Vedic and Transcendental Meditation world. So it was a very specific philosophy you know, give it, give it like a 30-second synopsis of what that is. So first of all the Vedic tradition is the tradition of knowledge that comes from Northern India and it's actually kind of the origin of a lot of
what we think of as yoga and if people Ever studied like vedanta or like looked at the bhagavad-gita reminder these are all come from this tradition. Yeah and it's a traditional knowledge that really values. This idea of transcendence.
So Transcendence means a state of consciousness in which you go beyond thought, emotion superficial sense of identity and find the most expensive quiet and Blissful version of the self. Yeah. And as meditation techniques that create that State of Consciousness. Yeah the beautiful tradition.
Absolutely amazing. So much depth and richness. In and the techniques from but obviously amazing. It's very different to say mindfulness. The broadest approaches the past and things like that was then. Yeah, yeah. So did Polar Opposites and sometimes the instructions for the meditation techniques are actually opposite opposite and they disagree with each other disagree with each other. Yeah.
And sometimes you know, you'll find adherents of either Camp. Yeah. Who like those guys. All suck your heart. Really, really doctrinaire about. Yeah. So this teacher training isn't in Vedic. Meditation isn't Transcendental Meditation?
It isn't those things. It's, I did a, we rather? I should say we did a kind of systemic analysis of all the different schools of meditation and tried to figure out. Where are these contradictions? Yeah, you know, where where they contradict with each other, and why?
Yeah, you know, like, when you go, if you go to a Zen Monastery, which I've done on a few occasions and Take a meditation class there. They will tell me things that are exactly opposite. To what I learned as a child. Yeah. And yet the technique works.
But what does a different thing? Yes answer. Yeah. And the result is different but it does work. That's right. Yes. Really effective. And it works. And you have to. And if you've been trained in one school, you have to kind of unlearn everything you've learned and just say, like, okay I'm not going to fall on that habit.
I'm going to actually listen to My teachers telling me ended of a method and I I liken it to I think of meditation is music. And if you're like a TM guy, you're like rock and roll is the only music I listen to right? And it's like, well, what about classical like? Yeah, no, no, no rap, no country. And like, but it's all music and it all works, right? And different pieces of music.
Help you feel different things. Help you experience different things. Yeah. And I think Think it's always kind of funny when people are there. So adamant about like, this is my thing, this is the thing and if it's not the thing because then they can't they can't sell you the idea.
Right? They have the answer to your problem. Yeah. Yes. Away took the approach. That like after we looked at all these different schools of meditation? Yeah. We're like okay they all fall into four categories like the hundreds of different thousands of different techniques or in kind of four different categories.
Yeah that's what we want to. Is teach you the most teachable techniques from each of, those four categories that's great and teach and train you to teach those, but you're ready to go out into the world and do it. Exactly.
Yeah, and then also the second part of it is learn when to apply each technique, because different people have different. Like, some people are really drawn to like the Zen approach. And some people were they drawn to like, Transcendence approach, why? Yeah, you know, what is the quality of Mind in that person? That makes one technique work better for them. Yeah, you know, so I always was teaching one technique from work for most of my career.
Yeah. And it would work most of the time, but there'd be some students who just didn't get it. Yeah, you know. Yeah, absolutely. And what I know now, from the techniques that we have developed for this training, it's like there were queues that I was missing that I could have picked up on it, I'd taken the training that I do now. Yeah, could have picked on and I would have been like, oh, you are supposed to do this other technique because that's the technique.
Going to work better with your brain, but or your body or your and it's just like exercise. Yeah. You know, like some people are more like Runners bodies and we'll have more like a weightlifters body, the more into yoga some people it's like what you got to do?
What your body is kind of a tuned for or else you're going to be struggling with it? Yeah I know. And so it's really very similar. So that's like our approach that. It's we try to be very systematic and very non-dogmatic yeah.
In a very open and great to all the different approaches. And then try to teach people how to like systematically approach these things. So that when they go out as teachers there are like they're ready to teach in any environment to any group of people and yeah, I'm really proud of it. I'm really, I'm really happy.
I think I fell and I know just from everything that I know of, I'm sure it's fantastic. And I think a meditation teacher training or a yoga teacher training. They need to get you ready to teach the things. Yeah, you know. It's like otherwise it's just an immersion or it's just What it is.
But like the whole point is like and I and I and I know that that's a big thing for you is, you want people to be comfortable teaching. And I also know that you said in your training, you actually have to actually have to do the work and if you don't you don't pass your puss.
It's not everyone gets a trophy type, no teacher training. No, I'm real, and I'm really opposed to this, you know, there's a thing that it's in them, sort of meditation yoga world where it's like, pay for certification. Yeah, no. And I have a friend who went to like a well-known yoga studio, what does?
I won't mention by name but a, well-known studio and took their teacher Trac, the yoga teacher training. He got sick of it, halfway through and stops turning up to classes. And at the end of the training, they mailed him his certificate. He didn't even show up half of it, you know? And so that that whole thing undermines credibility. And so we are, we do have an approachable like you've got to show up.
You got to do the work, you've got to show that you can teach ya. I don't want people going out in the world if they're not ready and they haven't done the work. Like I will fail, you like little and I mean that would love light in for for yourself and for the potential students that you could be injuring. We have we have people take our training who don't pass yes and then you know we give them a special deal if they want to like do it again.
Take it again. Yeah. And then they graduate the second time and there's some of our best teacher, of course. But it's because they had that experience of feeling, you know what, my dad was one of those guys back in the day, and he went to train with the Maharishi. He failed his teacher training the first time and he's like, no, I'm not going to Not going to give you the secrets of the mantras at the end of it and he was like devastated, you know. Yeah.
And it's like, and it's like, you know, he went back, he went. And he was that I'm not leaving. Yeah, basically. I'm not leaving perseverance. Yeah. And he had like, had this be outside the gate? Yeah, they weren't been want to let him back in again that do like persist and and then ya became one of the best teachers.
Yeah, out there. And so there's nothing, there's nothing bad about that. It's great actually to have a standard that you have to rise to In order to be able to teach what it's needed. Yeah. In this in the spiritual Community.
Yes. This whole like everybody's perfect. Everybody's love and and I agree with all of that. Yeah. But like, we have to set the bar high and we have to maintain our integrity and commitment to Excellence and all of these, These Old teachers like pattabhi jois and you know, they were not like love and light P. They were disciplined.
Yeah. You were not serious and focused they would throw you out of their school. Well, you know, I think there's a distinction to be made between like a teacher training, versus a meditation course. Yes. You know like someone comes into a meditation course it's all love and light.
Yeah you know because we just want everyone. Like people come in like her. Yeah. Damaged him realistic sprinting. A lot of trauma. Yeah. It's like I'm not expecting that person to come and bring Excellence. I'm a surgeon to he'll. Let me feel first and then you can work on this is the hospital, but I want the doctors working in my hospital to know how to put a stitch in.
Yeah. When you go Do you want your doctor to be really? Really good. Yeah, and that's the way I say that the teachers were trainees, like we are training you to be really, really good. So when someone comes in their heart, they're going to Broken Heart, they're addicts, their experience trauma that high anxiety. They can't sleep.
Like, you can actually be the person who helps them. Yeah, you know. Yeah. So important. That's beautiful. Yeah. Well, on that note, I think we just went about 75. 80 minutes, effortless. That was, that was Easy. I feel like I can talk to you for another hour, but we probably have another another couple hours worth of stuff. Absolutely, but thank you so much, Charlie knows and thank you for inspiring my wife.
And I to move to Indonesia. Seriously would never happen without you. So you jave changed my life. It's amazing. Yeah. And thank you for being such a great inspiration to other people and check out Charlie. So how do we find you?
Oh really, here's your massive Instagram following, you just go if easiest ways Google my name because I come up straight away. Yeah. But if you just go to meditation teacher dot-org. Yeah it's meditation. Teacher or one word dot org and then you'll see the course and if it looks like the right thing, you can try it out.
Cool. Yeah. Alright, thanks so much Charlie. Thanks so much. Everybody have a beautiful, beautiful day. Thank you so much for tuning into the Rat Race. Rebellion podcast. I am your co-host Paul 20 do when Creek, we created this podcast with the intention of really bringing awareness to the gifts that come when you travel the world. And next year in 2021, I have a bunch of events coming up in February 20 21, we have a 200, our yoga teacher training in Bali, Indonesia.
And then, in June, I have to Retreats one in the south of France and one in Santorini Greece. If you're interested in any of these experiences, you can follow me at t0, do yoga guitar, on Instagram, send me a message or you can visit elements of Power Yoga.com for the teacher training. Have a beautiful day, namaste.
