Teacher and Student: Comparison vs. Connection with Byron de Marsé

0:00 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the podcast and today's pretty freaking special day. It's a pretty special day because I got, I got this guy Byron across the table for me. Yeah, well. He's back, yes, he's back. Super excited. I'm super excited to have Byron back on the podcast. I mean, he's always been on the podcast, but just been a lot going on over the last year.

0:22 So a lot of developments and yeah, there's things are going to be shifting soon, which is pretty cool. So we just decided to hang out and we're like, you know, let's get back in the podcast room and just get it going again, you know? But I am going by a different name now. That is true.

0:36 And should we start with what the name is or how you found the name? Satya Rishi, let's just let's just go there. Satya Rishi. Satya Rishi. That's my new name. Satya Rishi, I did. Just get back from India. Anybody listening? I just got back from India and that's actually not how the name came about.

1:12 You teased it well, though I must. Say yeah, and Satya means truth and Rishi would be something of a like sage wisdom. So just another name change, you know, just another day here in the the Ubud rice fields. I love it. I actually really like it.

1:30 Satya Rishi. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I'm trying it on. We'll see how it lands, Yeah. So let us know. Yeah, let us know. So Satya Rishi, thank you for joining the podcast today. I really appreciate your presence. Thank you.

1:43 And yeah. Can I just just say I'm just, it's, I'm so excited. Just, I'm relaxed yet excited. I'm just happy to be here sitting across from you in this chair. It's been so long, we've had so many podcasts recorded in this room and other places and it's been a long time. And I've been, I've thought about it. I'm like, gosh, I want, I can't wait to get back there. And I'm I'm looking forward to being more of a part of this here in the very near future.

2:11 What do you think? Yeah, I mean, we've talked about it off the mic and it's it's an exciting thing. You know, there's some changes that we haven't really, I haven't really talked about them on the podcast yet, but we've, you know, mentioned things in Instagram and stuff like that.

2:23 But there's a lot of cool things coming in the future with studio and just like getting really clear on, you know, everything, which feels really great and you're, you know, interest and involvement in the podcast is always wanted because you're such an asset to, you know, the listeners to me as well.

2:39 So it's just great to have you back. Basically, thank you, thank you, thank you. So Satya, we're going to be talking about how do you want to introduce it? We have so many words to describe this. Podcast. This is a near and dear topic to me just because I think about it a lot. And I and I'm very interested in the linguistics and language around the power dynamics.

3:02 And so when we're talking about power dynamics, basically talking about how our language can influence power. And in the setting of a yoga class, you have a student and a teacher, and that's what this conversation's about.

3:16 How did we become so accustomed to be called teachers or students? Why, for example, when I do an event for for Indonesia, they call me a coach. Whereas you might prefer a different language like a participant facilitator. There's, there's a guru, you know, master. There's all kinds of different ways to look at this dynamic. And what do they mean?

3:42 How is it influencing our culture? But specifically talking more about yoga. Yeah, beautiful. So what words feel most aligned for you to kind of maybe use? Like did you come across any words that were like, you know what this feels most aligned with? The way that I feel my relationship is with the students or the people that you, you know, facilitate whatever word you want to use.

4:10 Obviously I'm using my own words, but is there any certain words that kind of come through for you? Well, yes, but it's only through that process of elimination of what I didn't like that I could think about what I did like because I've always been called a student and a teacher based off of the people I've been surrounded by.

4:32 So trying that on over and over. I'm not sure the first time I thought about that. But you know, the first time I I thought about student teacher in general was just in school. I was a student and I had my kindergarten teacher and that was my teacher. Not pretty much persisted all the way throughout high school. In college, I think we might have called him a professor, professor, but either way, it was like a more advanced teacher in my mind.

5:00 So then you get into a yoga class and they call it a class. There's another word and a teacher and a student. So you assume that you're learning something there. So the teacher is in the role of, I mean, essentially this is about roles. What's the role of a student?

5:17 What's the role of a teacher? Well, a teacher is there to give a lesson of some sort, and that lesson is to be digested and absorbed and to be a learning process for the student. The student is to, let's say that'd be the digester of that.

5:32 Information. Receive something probably. They receive it and they are supposed to turn that into a learning process through the help of the teacher, the assistance of the teacher. And I started to think about that. I was like, what am I even learning in these yoga classes? It's sometimes we're just going through a little exercise and I lay there at the end and I'm like, yeah, did yoga today. Then once you start to dive into the deeper philosophies through the sutras and Upanishads and

6:00 various other place, other books that you can pick up information from, you start to realize it's kind of an unlearning process. Like what's the opposite of a teacher? You're kind of unlearning, you're unlearning patterns and stress and you're letting go of stuff.

6:14 So is it now? Is that a learning or an unlearning is, are you a still a student and the teacher is the one helping you with that? What if the teacher themselves don't, doesn't even know how to do that very well, you know, but you're, you're figuring it out through your life experiences.

6:30 So I started to, to gravitate a little more towards facilitator, like facilitate, you know, as a facilitator, you're facilitating an experience, maybe you play music, whatever various dynamics you have in the class, you're facilitating some sort of experience for a letting go or some sort of shift to happen, let's say. And then in that case they would be a participant. So that's, that's probably what I, I go for is the facilitator and the participant.

6:59 But I also like being, you know, kind of thinking of myself as a guide, like I'm guiding the class That's it. I'm a podcast. I used to say book on tape, right? I'm a book on tape that doesn't work anymore. So you're listening to a podcast. I'm the podcast host, and I am full of information. I'm going to guide you through a sequence, but it's up to you to listen because I may not be necessarily speaking directly to you all the time.

7:27 Who's speaking directly to you is you. So you got to listen to yourself during the experience, basically. How do you feel? That's great. I love it. So one of the words I don't think you actually said it was supporter and seeker were two synonyms.

7:41 So the teacher being the supporter and then the seeker looking or seeking something. Maybe it is a physical practice, Austin or something like that or maybe it's deeper so it has layers to it. So I actually liked it when we I like it. I saw those words.

7:55 I'd never really thought of it before. Yeah, but once, Once those words. Once you just said those words, supporter and seeker, it's pretty in line. Usually if you're in a yoga class or you have some sort of seeking based.

8:10 But The thing is, is just this, this whole conversation has the whole basically like it needs to be pre. There's needs to be a whole like pre discussion about how words get burned out. Some words are overused in America. For example, in the United States, using the word friend has lost a lot of its power.

8:32 Right, right. You're my friend, everybody's my friend, Facebook friends. And you know, so the same thing happens when you start talking about a seeker. And what is a seeker? And it might have like an energy behind it. For some people, that means that you are you're not complete and that you're seeking something outside of yourself. I'm just making this up as I'm thinking, but whereas A seeker more traditionally was somebody who was seeking more than the normal life would offer them,

9:05 more of a spiritual journey as a seeker. So I just wanted to bring that up because, yeah, I mean, every word has a different meaning to it depending on who's interpreting it. But there is like a more broad cultural influence that this whole thing has playing as well, right? So it's good to talk about the terms, you know, because whatever words we're using is kind of irrelevant. It's like whatever you hear the listener word, I mean, you can decide what word resonates most

9:35 with you. But at the end of the day, I think you understand what we're we're trying to talk about or we're moving into and I think that's the most important thing. So yeah, whatever words, whatever terms resonate with you, we obviously said a bunch mentor, learner, coach, teammate or team member, excuse me, guide or explorer, instructor, practitioner, supporter, seeker, things like that.

9:57 To think about like, why, why this conversation really matters is to go into why is why does power matter? So you're creating a power dynamic and putting someone potentially on a pedestal. You're putting someone higher as a higher rank than you. And I just got back from India and let me tell you, that's what they do there.

10:19 And there's nothing wrong with that. That has its place. Guru. That's what you call your teacher there. I've had many people call me guru over the years. So guru means dispeller of darkness. You are shedding light on something so it actually has a beautiful, beautiful meaning. What a beautiful thing.

10:41 I'm going to shed light on something that can't be seen. That's dark for this person. Whoa, realization, something so simple. Sometimes you're like, wow, they helped me see that. But what's, what do people think about Guru the listeners? Like, I hate that word.

10:58 I mean, some people might not have a problem with it, but there are a lot of people nowadays that do have a problem with that. Yeah, especially because there's been a lot of guru labeled people that have, you know, been in the spotlight in the negative way.

11:11 Yes, which kind of tarnishes the word to some degree. Master has that same similar kind of energy behind it. Just as in like, what do you mean? You're my master, you're going to control me rather than you're the master of your what your craft is.

11:27 Yeah, which is a beautiful interpretation of it. So, yeah. So I think because of the even playing field that I'm I'm interested in, I like participant and I like facilitator. It resonates with the experience that I'm trying to to have.

11:44 Right. And just for fun, what about the word sensei? What do you feel Feel. About that sensei, well, you know, it is like Mr. Miyagi and Karate Kid oftentimes sounds a little. Close to heart to the heart, that one is it.

11:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just for those of you haven't seen a Karate Kid, Mr. Miyagi from Japan, he's taking Daniels son the his his student, I guess you would say pupil through all these different exercises and helping him get better at karate and to prepare for the tournament.

12:16 And they're often lessons that are lessons in life and not actually in physical karate. So Sensei is pretty good. It's just Japanese. So I'm not sure when that'll stick right? Yeah, or how appropriate it is. Or possibly inappropriate, Nice, cool.

12:35 And having come back from India and you know, getting a little bit of a sense, not necessarily. I'm sure you didn't necessarily have these conversations with like the teachers practitioners. You were more so just kind of feeling into like what was actually happening? What was the dynamic a little bit. So seeing obviously you're you're watching the teacher while you're practicing and you're not only just practicing the yoga, but you're taking in the experience and very observant.

12:59 You are, especially with words. So you almost were able to kind of distill a little bit more of at least in the setting in which you went, like a couple of yoga classes, you know, certain interactions, you probably started to feel a little bit more of that traditional dynamic that you're kind of talking about. Like historically it's a little bit more of this pedestal type of feel.

13:19 Is that kind of true? Yeah, I definitely to some degree was in my sore and felt that the hierarchy kind of feeling of the guru that just the way they do things there is is different than the way I've done things. That's all. Essentially we're all after the same thing from yoga, which I believe is liberation to some level. So Moksha, liberation and just to live a more optimal and healthy life overall, the way that comes out and the way the strategy in which that needs to

13:53 be implemented discipline wise versus more relaxed wise or freedom is different culturally. So that's something I picked up on. And you know, it's just like it all comes down to like we are all very different and we're going to have different ways of, of things working for us.

14:15 We're going to have a different, different phases of our lives. We're going to need more discipline. We're going to need more structure. Other times we're going to need more freedom or more of like, let's say, to be embodied within a stillness practice or a feminine practice, for example, something that just has less structure to it. So I keep coming back to like, what's important, What's the, what's the juice here to, to talk about, to, to really go into the, the depths.

14:45 And we've been talking about how this kind of the semantics, you don't, you know, it's also kind of silly, right? You kind of kind of look at that side like, oh, I get caught so caught up in the words. It's still the same thing.

14:55 It's all the same thing, right? But is it, there's so much, there's, there's so many things that just get passed down from generation to generation to generation. I mean, you can look at every sector within that has suffering within it and anything that's had suffering, usually you can go back to the language of it. Racism, you know, anything that has to do with suppression of equal rights.

15:22 You know, it's, it's, it all goes back to the language usually and how we what those words even mean, right? Slavery, things like that. Like slavery. Exactly. So that's why I think this is super interesting because do we want to keep perpetuating things that we don't are actually not intending to do?

15:41 Or do we actually want, if we actually want to keep going in that direction, that's fine. But know who you are and know what you stand for. And you know, Krishnamacharya, we're going to, you know, the, the man responsible for all of our Western yoga practices for the most part, let's say vinyasas and Ashtanga yoga's and a lot of the physical dynamic practices, Hatha yoga. He he was basically, you know, it was all about the sharing yoga 1 to one, one person to one

16:12 person, not big groups necessarily, but more of like, yeah, I'm going to share what I have to you as a friend. So as from a friend to a friend. And then that's the, that's the energy to kind of carry like I'm just sharing and to, to, I'd love that because it, it kind of crushes that pedestal mindset and that even playing field. Some people need that.

16:34 I think we're in a movement right now where more people need that than they ever have. And maybe people have always needed it, but they didn't really know it. You know, that's the way I see it. So yeah, at least in my classes, my experiences, I'm, I'm hoping to, to have the answers really revealed from within rather than me giving them answers. You know, it's, it's mostly because I didn't like that, you know, I didn't like this.

17:07 So structured experience from education, you know, education is, is basically there so that you can have a process inside of yourself and understand it. That's why education is there. So if you're just copying education, then you don't truly unravel the whole purpose of education.

17:27 So I think education is failing us. So if it's been failing us, in my opinion, it has. And I'm sure some of you think it's working, but I know some of you and I know you're listening. And you're like, yes, education has been failing us. And systematically, you know, like we need to, we need to get it back on track, which is going back inside and and listening to yourself and learning the processes of yourself. Yeah, that's what I think.

17:56 Yeah, and it makes me think about. I thought you were going to say it, Mark Whitwell's. I think it's a yoga teacher is no more or no less a friend, no more than a friend and no less than a friend or something like that. No more than a friend.

18:10 No less than a friend. But he's also connected to Krishnamacharya, right? So I'm sure that's all connected. Some sort of lesson there that he's learned, right? Yeah. I mean, who's better to share a message to people of the Swahili? I've no idea actually where Swahili is. I'm just thinking like, I just thought of something that felt so exotic to me.

18:37 Who's better to share a message to someone in the Swahili culture? Is it me or is it somebody from Swahili? Right. And this is also Mark Whitwell's message oftentimes. And the answer is somebody from Swahili, you know, so are some people going to need what they consider the root, the actual root meaning like going to the, what am I trying to say, the essence, the actual origins. You know, some people think they're going to the origins of yoga by learning from a certain

19:18 person. And so in that case, especially if that person learned from somebody else from the origins as well, like, how far back can you go to the origins? I don't even know. But a lot of us are convinced that we're doing that. So yeah, your mind is a very powerful tool. If you believe something to be true, then absolutely it will be not wrong or right, just the nature of the mind. Yeah.

19:46 So if you need that origin experience and you believe that to be true and you think that somebody has it and you don't have access to that and people of your skin color don't have access to it, for example, then they won't.

19:58 Yeah, OK, that's my rant. That's good. No, it's making my wheels turn a little bit. So the other thing that we kind of have here to talk about a little bit is maybe some challenges or limitations behind some of this. You know, obviously we talked a bit about the the power dynamic. You know, there's some people have been in the negative limelight.

20:22 So obviously that has some of these negative things. But maybe just relationship wise, the, the language that's being used or the, the perception that's being created or the foundation that's being created from like a teacher student dynamic, you know, and from your experience as well, like people coming in and you wanting to create this dynamic.

20:41 Yet naturally for some people, they're gonna see you in a particular way. You know, there's this person facilitating, they're saying these things and it's making me feel things. I'm, I'm, I'm going deep within myself. It's evoking things within myself and I'm feeling certain things.

20:56 And then they kind of like tackle it. It's because this person's saying these words and they're the one that's actually doing this to me. And therefore they start to have this like attraction or pull towards that person. Like I need more of this, I need more of this, I need more of this.

21:11 So that kind of asked some what happens naturally. And I think about that it's, you know, it's more so just being the vessel of sharing the experience or the yoga or the, you know, the origins or whatever it is. It's not like you created what you're sharing.

21:26 It's something that was learned and it's just being basically delivered in a unique, authentic way through you, right. But when people kind of experience yoga in different ways that it can be delivered, sometimes they feel like I can only get this experience through this person.

21:43 And therefore I need to like move towards this person in whatever way I can, which could create a little bit of that guru dynamic, pedestal dynamic, attraction dynamic that could be, let's say, unhealthy in some ways. Any thoughts on that? I my thoughts are that this dynamic you speak of is not only present in yoga, but it's present in every relationship that you might have.

22:11 Your partner that you choose, who's responsible for that wonderful connection. Is it you? Is it your partner? Is it both of you together? Who do you give credit to? Or you're not just trying to recreate that experience that you've had that makes you feel so wonderful, whether it's comfort or passion or whatever it might be. So again, we're looking at the power dynamic of the language. So the language itself already softens the possibility of that happening.

22:57 So if you were going within a facilitator and you start to call yourself a facilitator, you're you're not calling yourself a teacher already or a guru teachers closer to guru than facilitator probably is. And no, you cannot control what someone else is going to do, what they're learning along the way. You can only hope that the facilitator has the skills to keep guiding people back to themselves, keep giving credit to themselves.

23:26 And naturally, you would only assume that people will continue to be attracted to the experience that they've had. They could be through that, that certain person, guru, teacher, but or otherwise facilitator. So of course they're going to be magnetized and pulled towards that experience.

23:46 But if they continue to give credit to that person, then that's their own journey of learning and unlearning the costs and benefits of that. Because eventually that rears its ugly head. At a certain point, depending on how deep you go into it, you may not, you may not ever, you know, go past the surface of that, but you could, you could.

24:08 And then one day you wake up and you realize that's just a human being. Somehow they show it to you. And maybe you feel betrayed by that. Maybe you, you get closer to a relationship of working together or you see them doing something that you would have never believed that somebody in their position.

24:27 We're doing, we're, we're doing because you put them in such a light and now they're out there honking their horn at somebody in traffic and or yelling at them or something. And you caught them and now you're like, no, how could you possibly? You're just just a person right now. So people are just going to move in towards that. And that is, I don't know, to call it human nature because it's based off of a, a void.

24:56 I believe it's based off of a void, and that void is trying to be closed. It's a gap of space and you're trying to get closer to the connection of the source of what you're giving credit to, giving you the experience. The truth is, is you did that, but that that supporter, and that's one of the words is they held space for you to have that experience, facilitated the experience.

25:22 They might not have talked too much or played the right music or whatever they needed to do to get you in that zone. And so much like a concert, you kind of trust that artist to put together the vibrational experience that you need.

25:38 So as long as you're not giving too much of your, you know, power away in those situations, I think it's completely natural to have a preference, right? And in fact, if you don't have one and you might be done with your whole journey, you might be ready to just, you know, go on the the top of the horizon and meditate off into the sunset. Right.

26:00 And now you're the guru for some people, for some people. Yeah, exactly. So that's just part of our untethering. Interesting. So then for people that are maybe more in the position, because you were kind of talking a little bit from the lens of the participant or the student. So what about the teacher person who's like, I am, you know, I'm listening to this podcast and I teach and I facilitate and I get this, this feeling sometimes when people give me this feedback and they make me feel

26:33 good because I feel so rewarded by sharing the yoga that how do I battle this negotiation in my head of like my my ego just like kind of getting a little like, Oh, this is me. I'm doing it. And it's all, you know, I'm a good teacher. I'm, I'm the best.

26:47 Like, look what I do to people, like I transform people. Like how to, you know, to keep that at Bay Obviously has to do with humility. But I think there's a conversation piece there for some people that might be just listening. Yeah.

26:59 Yes. So do you have any thoughts on that? Because, I mean, you are a teacher that has experienced that to some degree. I mean, everyone has to at some point. Yeah. So there's just things to be shared and talked about, I think.

27:08 Yeah. Absolutely. I think that at the end of the day, we need to have reminders, ways to remind ourselves to come back to humility. Like you just said. You can also dive into the certain subjects, like if you jump, if you dive into surrender, the word surrender, there's different phases of surrender based off of the Bhagavad Gita.

27:33 The Bhagavad Gita will kind of go through this process for you. Acceptance will be #1 of something favorable to devotion #2 will be rejection of something unfavorable or hurt or harmful to devotion. So acceptance, rejection.

27:53 And then it goes into things like complete self surrender, trusting that you are guided by the Lord or whatever you want to fill in the blank, the universe energy, you know. And then it gets into humility. I think it's the last one.

28:11 And so just by like memorizing those or like repeating those to yourself and like being like surrender, I need to let go. I need to let go. What is the purpose of yoga? That's right, union. I got to let go of something in order to to transform and become something new.

28:24 Got to go through something uncomfortable sometimes to grow. So how do you do that? Well, I've got to let go, got to surrender. Boom. Now it's important to you and you have all these set principles that help you let go. Humility being one of them.

28:38 You also having people around you that just aren't afraid to just be like, dude, you're not that cool. Or I think that's, that's something that's an obvious helpful thing, as long as it's coming from a healthy place. You know, I had a talk with Paul the other day and as we're developing all this stuff and sometimes we're in a bubble and he just took these pictures in Java.

29:01 He was teaching at this event. And man, he was surrounded by like so many people. Hundreds and hundreds of people wanted to take a picture with him. It felt like it was Justin Bieber back in the concert days. And I know what that feeling is like.

29:13 And it's like a, a high in a rush. But I had just gotten back from India and I saw that picture and I was like, and exploring that scene in India. I just remember like going through these torturous classes that were quite challenging on my, my body.

29:32 Like, like the sequence we were doing. I also had some really lovely classes, but some of the sequences were, were really straining my body to go like further than I want to go, or maybe that I think I need to go. And, and as long as I was honouring my, my boundaries, like I was walking or out of the class feeling really good, but I could, it was also challenging because they wanted, it was like everyone wanted to do the big pose and like go further and

29:56 deeper. And how much can you bend your body into this back bend? I'm going to snap in half you guys. But like I said, I, I really did feel great. So coming from that experience, then sitting at lunch with the guru, as they call him the guru, and some of the students, I realized, like, I'm just this inflexible white guy to them. I'm just this inflexible, you know, like American dude who, yeah, obviously practices a lot of yoga, but. But that's who I am to them.

30:35 Yeah. And and it's just so humbling. It's so important to have those kinds of moments. And then, you know, I went back to Paul and told him I was just like, we're in a bubble. We're in a fame bubble here. And we need to remind ourselves of that because this isn't about us. This is about future generations. This is about, this is so much more powerful than than we can just do with our skill sets.

31:02 You know, our skill sets that we've developed are cool and they're by products of all the experience we have. But that's not the reason that we're creating a studio, for example. And we're creating a whole school and studio. Look at me, I called it a school. We should call it something else. Sanctuary.

31:23 Sanctuary. I like that we're creating it because we want to be a differentiating factor that draws people back into yoga to make yoga accessible, meditation accessible for all walks of life. Not just focusing on the able bodied, the flexible bodied and really coming from a balanced perspective, not knowing what you need, but giving you lots of different offerings of our experiences that are just highly conscious and highly crafted by by the the facilitator. Yeah, which helps to build two

31:59 things actually, empowerment or moving towards and feeling empowered. And then the other one was Oh my God, was it structure? Structure. I think it was struct, not structure. I forgot what the second word was. Damn. I don't.

32:17 Know it helps them move towards or it helps them embody more empowerment and then the second one was. Self discovery no. No, it wasn't it. But those are all good words too. Liberation. It's the same thing as freedom. Now you talk and all, let it come pee.

32:34 OK, well, I think I, I kind of went on and on about that, but that's the humility thing. You were talking about how, how do you, as from a teacher's perspective, knock yourself off of a pedestal and like we're getting all these compliments all the time. I mean, that word narcissism comes in there. And narcissism is something that's prevalent in society. It's a byproduct of society, right Right now. We breed narcissism through our imagery, through competition. It's not like you're born with

33:11 the disorder. And narcissism's also kind of been thrown out there. It's losing a lot of its power as well because you could say every person has some sort of narcissistic tendency. If you look into a mirror, you could say that's narcissistic. But there's obviously levels to this and often times someone seeking power or control has narcissistic tendencies to be in a position of power or a leader or a guru or a master in these specific words.

33:44 There's just a higher likelihood that it's going to attract that type of person. So I can't speak for somebody that's not that's, that's not willing or is too blind to see or doesn't want to change and see things a certain way.

33:58 I can't speak to that, so but I'm hoping that we have a lot of more balanced people listening to this podcast and that they are smart enough to surround themselves with people who will remind them to that they. Yeah, we're just, we're all just on the same level here. Yeah, that's what I would say.

34:18 Did you remember what you were gonna? Say I did. Yeah, I did, in the context of the student experiencing 2 things. The first one was Do you remember? Not freedom, but empowerment. Empowerment, yeah. Then the second one I was thinking was confidence in their ability versus taking a class that's so physically challenging that they can only do so much of it and they only do so much of it. So they might have this negative self conversation towards them like, oh, I can't do yoga or

34:53 yoga's, not for me, or because I'm not good at it, I shouldn't do it or something like this, right? So the confidence in any of those scenarios gets kind of shot down a bit versus, you know, just the kind of highlight that this is, if it isn't already obvious to the people that listen to and have been a part of our circle, is that we're all about making things inclusive, making it safe, making it being accessible to everybody, you know, young, old,

35:16 everything in between. And that allows people to feel safe enough in their ability, confident enough in their ability to continue, which allows opportunity for them to go a little bit more inward, right, 'cause now the space is helping to support them physically in such a way where they can feel like, OK, all I need to do is just show up and follow along and sometimes do what I think I can do and sometimes don't because I have that.

35:42 I can feel that experience. It feels inclusive. There's lots of options being given and then that allows the next stage. It's kind of going in from the alignment. When people come into yoga, they often come for the physical benefits.

35:55 They're like, I want to stretch or I want to get a good workout, or I want to sweat or something like that. And when that's satisfied, then there's a sense of safety and confidence in that part of their experience, which doesn't always, but it can definitely lead towards the second thing, which is tapping more into the breath and how the breath helps with more inner alignment. And then from there you can go even deeper into contemplation and self reflection and all that

36:17 stuff. So what is the bridge, right, That confidence piece that people get when they can do something and they feel safe to do it. Yeah. I mean, now that you're talking about confidence, that had a lots of kind of flashy kind of thoughts happening that like this is very interesting to explore the link between confidence and this whole conversation around the power dynamic.

36:46 I bet there's some pretty interesting links there that, you know, if you just, I'm not sure, probably not studies out there to look up, but just if you study it yourself, for example, like going to the guru, the guru might give you a certain amount of confidence simply because his name's a guru. And if he's called a guru, he must be good. So he's already, he's like a celebrity in your mind. So obviously there's you just.

37:14 So what I'm hearing you say is we prefer to build a more organic or authentic approach to confidence, trying not to skip the steps. Whereas the power dynamic is a way to kind of skip steps in a way. But what's turned out or what's what it's turned into is it's creating resistance and a lot of people and it's, it's unconscious or subconscious, I'm not sure which one.

37:40 But it's people aren't aware that they're resisting because of the power of the language. They're just resisting and they're done with it. So they they repel or you know, they repel it away from them and they go into something else like a spinning class or. They just dismiss it all together. Yeah.

37:58 They're like, I think I'll just go to my spin class where my teacher dances on the bike and, like, we just play music and we don't think about shit that's deep and uncomfortable. And yeah, yeah. And it's like this weird spiritual person here is just like, they're just icking me out. Like, like, you know, I think they think of themselves like a guru.

38:17 I don't know, you know, whatever it is. So that's just more prevalent now than it's ever been. It has to be just with the IT just has to be just within my life that I've lived and seen just within the changes within my my decades here for sure. Yeah.

38:33 I mean, we can unpack that so much further. But yeah, I mean going into just like why people kind of seek a little bit more of that, Yeah. So it's like, but you know, we've been talking, we've been talking for a while, so.

38:43 Yeah, let's, let's, let's wrap it up. But I would just be interested if anybody has their own thoughts on this and like what you, what you lean towards and is there a different dynamic you prefer, maybe you like some something that has a little more control for some reason.

39:01 Yeah, send a message, let us know. I'd be super curious to add that to our our next time we bring this up. Amazing. Cool. So what did we actually talk about today? I mean, we talked about this dynamic between the two terms. We used a lot of different terms, but basically the energy behind we'll just use the student teacher and then all the little nuances in between of the language and what the words might mean to each individual.

39:28 But there's also this universal understanding which kind of is more trend based off of events in life events in the world. So that's what, you know, tackles on this association with guru in certain places in the world, like in India versus in like America. So obviously there's a lot to think about and sit with with that.

39:45 You know, we talked a little bit about the history historically, some of the words like guru, mentor, master kind of broke down what those actually mean. Now, again, it goes back to just like what does it mean for you? But it's just kind of nice to think about those things depending on what your dynamic and is, whether you're the student, the teacher, how you perceive those words, how do you perceive the facilitators that are within your professional or personal life or relationships.

40:11 Power dynamics, these types of things. And then what else did we talk about? Yeah, some of the challenges and the, you know, the limitations to some degree, that hierarchy. And then ultimately just kind of like coming back to like, what's important to you, Like the why, Like what are we doing? And any particular thing, whether it's teaching yoga or not, you know, is it just that we are trying to create this sense of accomplishment or the sense of like, pride of myself that I'm doing something for

40:41 these people? Or is it that I just actually want to help these people? And so these are, there's just things to reflect on, think about, sit with. Yeah. I'm just glad we got to, to talk about it. And I just think it's such an interesting topic and I know, I know people are interested in it. And it's also there's this little sensitivity around it as well.

41:01 And like, how do you talk about it? And do we really need to change anything? And this isn't really to say we should change something or shouldn't, but just to look at your own individual relationship with it and, and just to consider it.

41:14 That's basically it. Amazing. Cool. Well, any final thoughts at all besides you know what you just said basically? No, I just want to do another podcast. I know you do, I can tell, but. But but we'll probably wait. It's getting late, Yeah. But I'm glad that you're back.

41:34 Thank you. This has obviously been really fun. We, we aimed for 30 minutes and I don't know what we're at 4550 or something like that, but it's all good. Maybe I'll I'll explain my my India sharing empowerment, yoga and India experience maybe next.

41:48 Time. Oh, I thought you were going to share it now. Teaser. All right, open loop. I like it. Cool. Well, thanks Byron, and thank you everyone for tuning in this week and listening as always. Yeah, like Byron said, reach out to us on Instagram or whatever way you know how to. Otherwise that information will be in the show notes. Otherwise, have a beautiful rest of your day week and we'll speak to you next week.

42:09 Satya Rishi, thank you. No, that's all right. Satya Rishi, thank you for coming. Thanks everyone, take care. Before you go, let me tell you about the Going proyoga.com platform. This is an online learning platform that is suited for anyone who's interested in learning about yoga.

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