Teacher-Student Boundaries in Yoga: Consent After #MeToo

0:00 Welcome to the rat race Revolution podcast. I am one of your co-host Paul Tio do and we created this podcast with the intention of letting you know that you can go after your dreams. So if you're stuck in some sort of a mundane life that is not consistent with your heart and your soul, we are bringing guests that will show you and tell you that you can go after your dreams and I'm Brent Collier. Another co-host also joined by Michael Henry behind the scenes, in the background, helping us

0:39 produce this amazing podcast, where we Our own personal experience of the hero's journey, the struggles that we face and the challenges that we've overcome to live a life full of passion and purpose, we want to encourage you to do the same to travel to see the world to live your best life.

0:56 And hopefully by providing you with some amazing guests and interviews. You can encourage you to do the same. So, thank you so much for listening. Yeah, and we're also going to, of course, have some Wellness tips on yoga and meditation and dealing with anxiety dealing with Lower back pain.

1:12 So they'll be lots of fun tips for all. You Wellness professionals out there. Have a beautiful day. Thank you so much. My name is Brent and I'll be your host this evening. I'm joined by Michael behind the camera. Making everything happen and Paul t0 do a very well known successful male yoga teacher, who has a message, you would like to deliver. Yeah, my message is, don't sleep with your students. If you're a male yoga, teacher, don't sleep with your students. That's what this episode is

1:44 going to be about. I'm going to go on a rant about the power Dynamic and What? It's like to be a male yoga teacher and how unethical it is to sleep with your students. If you fall in love with one of them and you go into a relationship, that's a different circumstance versus being a predator. Let's get into it.

2:07 Yeah, so if that doesn't hook you, I don't know what. Well, we're going to talk about the power dynamics of being a male yoga teacher in a predominantly female industry. And what that's like, what the Implications are and how becoming this celebrity status has changes people and especially inflates their ego. Yeah.

2:28 And the responsibilities that absolutely you have as any person who is teaching teaching to a group of people. Right. Absolutely. And I know we've all seen changes over the last couple of years specifically with the me to movement and more attention towards male yoga teachers and What they do during glass how their actions are. I know there's been a few Netflix documentaries that have touched on this subject and we want to talk to you about it from personal experience.

3:02 And so let's dive into the responsibilities. First, what would you say? Is the golden rule for all just not male teachers. But teachers to have that relationship with the student I think the golden rule is to Practice sexual responsibility, which is one of the neom has of yoga brahmacarya, or brahmacharya.

3:27 I think it's how it's pronounced. It traditionally actually meant celibacy, but it's kind of been leaned into just being responsible with your Sexual Energy. So it's a skill that we're supposed to learn to cultivate. We're learn to cultivate a handstand, you learn to cultivate the alignment of one, cultivate gratitude, cultivate meditation, but also cultivate the ability to be responsible with your sexual energy and as a person who is teaching and as a yoga teacher, if you consider

4:04 it, especially if you consider it more than just a fitness class, we have a responsibility as teachers to be responsible with our Sexual Energy and to know how to Control it. Right? Right. Yeah. I see the relationships between the teacher and the students similar to a therapist and someone who's going to therapy absolutely especially if you're a teacher, who's also again teaching more than just poses, but it's not just a gym class to you, your teaching philosophy,

4:39 your teaching, healing your teaching meditation, people become very vulnerable in your class and That's when you have to be extra sensitive to their feelings. Absolutely, and why, as a student is important to be vulnerable in glass, that's how we heal.

4:57 It's how we make ourselves aware. Yeah, I've been to many classes. I'm sure you've had many classes where students are in tears in the class or have really struck important string and their body because of something you said or something that has happened previously, Ously in their life but brought up during class and I think that's a way for them to kind of dive into that address it and he'll yeah.

5:24 And I think that's the danger is you said somebody cried in a class because of something that I said. And if I start to believe that, then I'm starting to believe that. It's not the yoga but it's me. Okay, it's me this powerful. Healing, wizard person.

5:47 Yeah. And I'm doing this, and that's when we opened the door for, I think dangerous Behavior, right? So I've learned that, if somebody is crying in my class, they're crying. Because the yoga is doing its job, and yoga is bigger than me. And I am the conduit for which that is happening. I'm just creating a safe space, right? For that to be able to happen.

6:17 Doesn't mean I'm not confident in my my class, but the yoga is doing it. But if I start to believe that I'm doing it, then I start to believe that I am a person who is endowed with all these magical powers and it's very easy to fall in, love with yourself.

6:35 Yeah. And I find it, very lovely and beautiful. Now, when I'm in class and someone has a breakthrough or something because when I first started practicing yoga, and when come to class or With work or meditation. Someone's crying.

6:47 I'm like, what's wrong with those people? Like that's really weird what's going on and now I'm like yes like the yoga is doing its work. That's its releasing and opening up those previous tensions and they're getting a breakthrough.

7:01 So I actually feel happy for them. Yeah. That they're going through that. Now as a teacher, I think you pointed out that it's not. You you have to have that dissociation, that it's the yoga that It's what they are doing and you're just giving the space for that. Yes.

7:19 And how does that, how does that affect your ego? I yoga and meditation is really a lot about destroying the ego and reducing it down. I doing something like this. Going to class full of 60 students 10 times a week for years. This is really got to inflate your. Oh I'm great.

7:37 I can do this. Yeah, it does. And you have to I was really lucky to be raised by wonderful parents. Particularly a very wonderful father who taught me how to respect women and was very loyal and was very respectful. So, There is never.

8:05 A part of me that was encouraged to be. particularly egotistical with that being said, If you start to teach yoga and your classes grow and they get bigger and bigger and bigger, there's nothing wrong with developing more confidence and that's fine to be confident and to believe in what you're doing and to believe in yourself. But to allow that too.

8:36 Shift your perception, where you put yourself above other people? That's the really dangerous part. So, that's the ego. The ego is, I am separate from all of this. I'm better than than people. I am. I am they're crying because of me, you know, I'm making them cry and that's that's where it becomes dangerous and, and also as a man, if you're a man who hasn't healed, And developed enough emotional maturity.

9:16 You start to get this attention and it's intoxicating. Absolutely. And if you don't have other men around you who are in Integrity, particularly a father figure It's really hard not to take advantage of that. Right, right. And we live in a world that treats yoga teachers, like rock stars, and then when they behave like rock stars, everyone's appalled, right?

9:44 It's like, what do you expect? You know, especially over the last decade, we've seen yoga. Just yeah, blowed and blow up. And I remember years ago, I look at some of these yoga teachers, either friends of mine would become yoga teachers, or people who were yoga teachers on Mike. Got the life there to.

10:02 They start sleeping with a lot of women, some of them. Yeah. And I'd be like, yeah, that like look at them. They're getting laid by all these beautiful women, they're always surrounded by women. Like, that's amazing. And I would have friends who would joke like, yeah, yoga is the new rock star the way to get laid. And as I went through my teacher training and went through my process of going through yoga, I realized that the boundaries between that, that's not that's

10:30 not acceptable. It's not okay. Yeah, it really isn't and And, and as a yoga teacher that trains other teachers, I have a moment with all of my male teachers and just bluntly say to them. Look, you're going to be surrounded by a lot of young beautiful sometimes, half-naked 25 year old women and you need to be able to handle it like a man, right?

11:02 And make them look me in the eye, man, to man. This is like a, you know, healthy masculine. And I promise me you're not going to abuse your power, right? And if you abused your power, you have to tell me, right? I'm going to fucking lay into you because you have a, you're my student, you're graduating from my training, and we, an are Training.

11:19 We treat women with respect and And I think that's a moment that that teachers particularly male to male teachers need to have that. I need to have that blunt heart-to-heart moment of, you know Integrity. Right. What does that mean?

11:39 Right. And At the same time, some of the most wonderful men that I know are now married to women that they that were their students. But these are not men that had the reputation of being Predators, right? These are men, that taught a class and a student came to their class several times.

12:04 And then over a period of time, they developed a relationship that turned into a marriage. That's different than being a person who has a reputation for Being right with a lot of their students, it's very different thing.

12:17 It's like, yeah, it's a genuine relationship that organic exact wrong Precinct. Someone using their power to get laid. Yeah, because I've had friends asked me. So yeah, your yoga teacher, you're surrounded by all these beautiful women.

12:31 Like, how do you not, how do you control yourself? How do you deal with that? I would go crazy and it's, you have to have that understanding that there is that separation. It's so important and People especially males who don't practice yoga and aren't at that maturity level.

12:48 Don't quite understand that. Yeah, I think it's dangerous. A lot of times if dangerous but, you know, a 20. If I had started teaching yoga at 24, things might have been very different. I might have slept with a lot of women, right? You know, easy.

13:03 Yeah. Right there. Exactly. And and I might have taken advantage of that. I didn't become yoga teacher until I was 31, right? I had already been knocked on my ass a few times. Times. And I went through a period of my early 20s where I was promiscuous and, and it was fun. And there's nothing wrong with sleeping with a lot of women. That's fine.

13:23 As long as those women want you to sleep with them. And as long as you're not meeting them, as long as you're meeting them in a place where you're not in a position of power, I think that's totally fine. So if you want to sleep with whoever you want to sleep with that stuff, that's great. I mean, it's yeah, human natural human desire to do that. But you got Be have intention and conscious about. Yeah, it's done.

13:47 Yeah, you know, we're talking about this earlier and I really believe like if you're a yoga teacher or a musician or actor or whatever and the only people you're having sex with our people that you meet while while you're in the position of power.

14:05 Yeah, you that's not your not being a real man or a real adult like you. There's there's a lack of vulnerability. Are because they're not they're not seeing you there seeing you do your performance and they're seeing this idealized version of you, right?

14:24 So it's not acceptable as a musician or anyone to only sleep with a fan like it's the same thing. Yeah. And But if it happens once or twice and you genuinely care about somebody that's different or if it happens once and you were having a little bit of fun, that's different. But if you're, if you're creating a dynamic where you're placing yourself as a father figure or healer or therapist, and you end up having sex with your student, it's incredibly unethical.

14:59 Yes. And there's really no way around it, right? And I think it's something that needs to be said and I was Nervous doing this podcast because it's a very taboo subject and I'm sure I'll get some blowback on it, but I think fuck.

15:17 It needs to be sock about. Yeah, we need to talk about this because it's on people's minds people understand it. But they don't talk about it. Yeah. And so this is, I think a good way to open up and open up that conversation and to understand the male Dynamic of it because yoga's primarily a female world. It's mostly female, but it's changing. And more men are doing yoga.

15:46 More men are becoming teachers, which I think is very positive. Yeah. But if we set that precedent, that male yoga teachers are going to sleep with all the women that's going to cause just problems within your own relationship, but the yoga industry as a whole well and they always have been. Yeah I mean Bikram.

16:07 Yeah. Tobby Joyce. Yeah, both of these men. It's now been revealed have several sexual harassment and sexual assault, right allegation, right? You look there's lots of other teachers, right? That have that. So it's not like our Role Models have been perfect and we have to learn from their mistakes. You have to learn from their mistakes, and there needs to be a The bar needs to be set higher. And also, there also needs to be a certain degree of forgiveness around to because the, the me to

16:46 movement is a very emotionally charged movement, but it can go too far. Yeah, you know, it can be pushed where if somebody Made a small mistake 15 years ago and their life is totally changed. I'm not talking about like a massive like a rape or anything. We have been talking to somebody was behaving in a way that was a little bit misogynistic or chauvinistic and and they've such they've since then changed that that person has a right For redemption in to apologize and

17:23 to heal and towards human. We all make mistakes that everything's perfect. And it's not about making the mistake. It's not making the mistake again, and learning from your mistakes and growing as a person. Yeah, as long as you're on that path, I think things can be forgiven and moved forward, depending on the severity of it. It's going to take longer or more effort, but it's it's something that you can't like yoga teaches you to live in the Hasn't yet, sometimes have to

17:52 let go of some of these things that in the past has happened, as long as you're not repeating it again and again, and again, it's something that can be healed from. Yeah, and there's many women, especially here in abood many women and men who come to a booth looking for healing.

18:08 They've had some trauma in the past, some issues that they're working through, whether it be relationship or with a father or something going on, that usually draws them to Abu. Food. And yoga is one of the many forms of healing here. And so, these, women and men are exceptionally vulnerable. Yes, when they come to class and exceptionally vulnerable to Predators.

18:35 Right? And not every healer is a predator, but I'm not every years, a Handler. Oh, yeah, yeah. There is their eyes and I know those healers who I'm like a Yoni healer or a sec sealer and they prey on these 20. Two year old women who come here and don't know any better. Yep.

18:54 And unfortunately, they do what they do and it'll catch up with them eventually, but we need to set as all men. We need to set that precedent. That that's not. Okay, that's not how you conduct yourself. That's not how you treat women. Yeah.

19:10 And I think that's what the me to movement is really about at its core, is the relationship between, and, and coming forward about things that have happened. And to make men more responsible, and we've seen it affect the yoga industry, when the me to movement came out. And the teachers were, I guess targeted, I remember hearing women talk about God.

19:37 I'm not going to any male yoga class. I'm not going to this and brought so much more attention to that, and that's taking it too far. Obviously like not, every man is not, every man is the predator. And even a man can be slightly. Flirty and that's maybe a gray area, right? But doesn't need to lose his career over there that, you know.

19:57 And that's another thing too is like, you can be pushed too far and right, and I have no idea where the right places to be, but there needs to be discussions about it. And I think it begins with a more So I think what this is causing is there's there's a top.

20:20 There's a there's the toxic masculinity and the blowback of toxic masculinity is no masculinity. Yeah. Yeah. Versus man-to-man healthy. Masculinity, were you again, you look at your student in the eye and you say, you better, you know, you better act appropriately and if you don't and I find Out about it. I'm gonna be up your fucking ass and you're going to apologize, you know and if there are if you make really big mistakes you're going to have to pay for them.

20:57 Right? Because and then also with the love and the sensitivity to say. Yeah and also there's no school that prepares you for the amount of attention that you're going to get. No no it doesn't. There's no way to really to get ready for the right.

21:16 I would say that is something that I have had to learn my own life lessons, but I never went to school about How to properly treat women. I mean I was always told to respect when and but where the line is yes and that you learn through your own experiences and other people's experiences and it's something that especially if they're the yoga training for my training and we never went over this.

21:41 There was a there was a little topic like you know respect your students but it was never like a this horse. Is it down? Yeah don't do that. And this is why. Yeah which I think is an important thing that everyone We should be exposed to and not just male, but this could happen to female as well.

21:58 Absolutely. And there are women that take advantage of that power to not just sexually but with other manipulation two runs and and yeah, it's a, it's a very, it's very intoxicating to have that level of power and and I, you know, I You know, I haven't been perfect either.

22:22 I never was sleeping around. I have had a relationship with one woman who was a student, and then I never did it again. And the relationship didn't last very long, and you're now, I'm married. And my wife is pregnant and in a monogamous marriage and happily. Yeah, happily in that.

22:45 And that doesn't mean that. I don't go to class and still notice the women in the bodies and right. And the attention but it means that I've done enough work on myself to not act on it, right? And and to and to recognize the amount of responsibility that I have is a man right to be protective of these of these women and they're not coming.

23:09 Maybe I think they're not coming from me. They're coming for yoga, they're coming from healing. They're coming to to open their hearts and and maybe They see something in me or another teacher, but it's not really what they're looking for, right? Yeah, it's a fantasy.

23:27 Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's that's got to be hard for you. Especially when you first started teaching here or in LA or here in Bali coming to a room of 60. Beautiful women half-dressed half-naked sweating just being exposed to that energy, all and yoga positions which sometimes can be Sure if your mind sensual, I don't you okay? Yeah.

23:53 I mean, you're twisting your bodies in different ways and exposing different areas that you usually wouldn't see, how did you go through that process and handle that? And I mean I'm sure that was not difficult at first. I'm sure it was exciting and yeah, it's it was exciting.

24:13 And at the same time like I mentioned before, I was raised with a really good father. So I was, I I was ahead of the game. I was raised with a really good father and then, you know, I was a musician in my 20s and you know I knew what it was like to get that level of attention so it wasn't completely new to me. Yeah, but I just really give credit to my father and then also, I have friends.

24:43 That would have called me out on it and not encouraged it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's really important to look at your friends and yeah would your friends encourage you to behave ethically, right? And if not right, Yeah, it's really about who you surround yourself with and I have a similar upbringing, my father, my mother said, especially was very treat women with respect. Yeah.

25:12 So I learned that from early on and then you wouldn't think it. But I was in a fraternity in college and they they were very about respecting women. That was part of our code, that was very important. We actually had a handbook about her like a written book about how to be a gentleman, how to treat women. Yeah.

25:32 It was dated eighteen, nineteen, hundreds or whatever, and it was like how to open a door. Put your coat down over the to that detail about how to treat women. Yeah. Fraternities. Get a bad rap but there's actually a lot of there was a decent amount of dignity though there was.

25:48 Yeah and yeah especially ours we were very if someone ended up treating women bad there was penalties for it. Yeah I'm and we were all on each other's case. We made each other accountable which was Great thing, especially when you're in a fraternity and partying and, you know, drinking and you're young. But you can't, you have to learn how to conduct yourself. And I think that's one good thing about the fraternity. I was in.

26:14 There was other ones who did it, you know, just get as many women as you want, you sleep with everyone and they had some bad reps and, yeah, I know went down. But there's that that I remember that handbook was very enlightening about how to do this and it's it should be something that's in curriculum and school like this is You treat women, men or women, this is how you treat men.

26:35 This is It's just something that's not discussed or talked about it unless you get it from your parents. But if your parents don't have that training, where are you going to get it from? Yeah, no absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a sticky, challenging topic and there's no right way. There's no, there's no like this is the right way. This is the wrong way to Central and it's Circumstantial, at the same time, people know.

27:06 Like if you can't ask yourself, if you think you can look yourself in the mirror and say, like, I respect women. I'm a good man. I would want my daughter to marry a man, like me. Yeah, if you can't say that. Yeah. And you're a yoga teacher.

27:23 Yeah. Need work on yourself right. You know? Right and and when you can say that, you'll sleep well, And I know that this is a destroyed, the careers of famous, and Yogi's, and friends, that I've known who have taken advantage of this sleeping with women and it's like, oh it's great, he's getting laid all the time and but it catches up with you. Yes, it's I remember one instance, I'm not going to name who but his reputation was great, great great. And then just crashed because he

27:58 was sleeping with so many women at the same I'm time that it just destroyed him. Now, you can't teach and everyone knows who he is. And, yeah, he's been exiled which is, I mean, it's completely not related to what yoga is at all. Yeah, it's so funny.

28:17 I there's there's there's that there's lots of stories about that in Los Angeles. There's there's actually the opposite story. There's a there is a guy who's a pretty well-known popular yoga teacher in LA and It got out into the yoga community that he was doing porn.

28:43 And so, he was a very attractive male yoga teacher, and he was doing porn and At that yoga studio. So, horrible at that yoga studio, they found out about this and people didn't want to be associated with the yoga studio. So a lot of the others student, a lot of the students, cancelled their memberships and a lot of the other teachers classes got smaller, right?

29:15 The porn stars classes, got bigger and more people started going to his class and all the people that weren't doing it. Yeah. All the teachers that weren't doing it. Their classes got smaller, which is pretty sad to say. yeah, so it's it's really interesting the world that we live in because to think that that, that would happen that I don't know what I want.

29:45 My, what the guy's a, he's a decent guy. What? I trust my wife around him or right, right daughter, right. And and teachers, I mean I know students who go to a teacher's class specifically for a teacher because they're good-looking or they like their personality.

30:06 So I guess that's similar like oh he's a some aspect of that is driving them to the class. Yeah. And it's It's interesting to see the students perspective of wanting to go to a class for a teacher that is good looking. It's I guess I kind of understand it but a lot of in Los Angeles. There's a lot of attractive Instagram, yoga teachers classes are empty.

30:29 Yeah four people five people go to their class so I don't think that's true. Actually, do you have to be a good teacher? Yeah, my I mean not everybody it's not a general but I know people who have said, oh, I I go to. So and so it's class because he's so good-looking and I just wanted to be around him.

30:48 And so you have that well, didn't that wrong for the yogurt? They're going? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's you know, if people got a people have to exercise their imagination as well and he's mature, and he's like, he doesn't care.

31:00 He's like nephew, Joe got whatever you get out of it, what are you put into it? You're going to get out of it. Yeah, that's why you're here. That's fine as long as you're not acting on it. Yeah absolutely. And I think that brings up the point of Being a celebrity yoga teacher, in general, we've seen teachers become so on a pedestal and and they're so such a celebrity, a rock star, and how that has changed over the last decade, and they're very well

31:32 respected, especially if you have a good following. How is that any change for you of you as you grow in your following? Not just sexuality part? Just being in that light and being looked up to by so many people. I think you learn to appreciate your own hard work. And if you become better at your craft, you become more confident but the confidence comes from doing the work. Yeah.

32:03 And then it's okay to enjoy success. Yeah, but again to believe that I'm better than somebody else or that, I'm great. I think that's dangerous. It's the same thing with music that's like music, if I play guitar and a person cries at the end of a song that I've written, Music made the person cry. Yep.

32:36 And I've become good at music because I spent 10,000 hours playing the guitar. But that it's not me, it's still music, right? And it's my thousands of hours of hard work that made the music good enough to have that effect, but it's still music, right? It's not me, right?

32:57 So I think I've learned to see it like that, And then when you as a teacher or as a, when you have these moments of transcendence, will you feel completely at one with the entire room in you're conducting a symphony teaching, a class, or whatever. You don't feel separate from the class, you feel like you're a part of some spiritual organism and maybe perhaps you're the head of the organism and not the tail, right? But you're still part of the organism. You're not a person sitting on a

33:36 throne or a pedal story, you're just a part of something, right? And that to me is when Teaching yoga becomes a spiritual experience. It's a much more Eastern way of looking and feeling that you're a part of something bigger.

33:58 It's all connected. Yeah, it's not just you individually, you were connected to your students. You are connected to the effort that is been put to get you there at that point. It's a part of a bigger picture. Yeah and I think that there's a there's a difference between talent and crafts. Yeah.

34:18 Talent. Lots of people have talent craft. Can only be built through hard work and perseverance and patience, right? And I think craft keeps you humble Talent if you just focus on Talent. It's dangerous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

34:41 Yeah. Yeah. I mean we've seen Many is a talented yoga teachers, who her people who do yoga, who just don't deliver a fantastic experience. They don't have that craft. They don't, they're not or the the Fantastic experiences inconsistent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:04 Yeah. And we see such a such a rise in the celebrity yoga teacher, where if you tell someone, hey, I'm a yoga teacher. Sure. They're usually another one of those, but if you're well-known you're like, wow, you are a yoga teacher?

35:21 Like I knows, I'm sure it was the same with being a trying to be an actor. The, the top actors are all well-known and very well-regarded, but and if you're not in that, you're just another actor. Yeah. And then, yeah, and the thing is too that there's no real relationship between talent and the size of your following. Yeah, no.

35:43 I know you'll go chief. Teachers with millions of followers that are terrible. Yeah, and I know teachers with very little or no Instagram. Yeah, that are fantastic. So that's that's, that's the real issue is is you know, are people people are now drawn to teachers because of their Instagram following and I play that game.

36:09 I'm not going to pretend that I don't but I my confidence. Comes from the fact that I taught five. I've taught 5,000 classes and that I've studied with great teachers and that I have right foundation, my confidence doesn't come from a following and integrate.

36:26 Yeah, that's – next point I wanted to get into is Instagram. Yeah. Which is perfect segue. Yeah. How how do you feel about this yoga Instagram, Instagram for yoga? These, it's You do yoga to be on Instagram. Well, it's like acting. Yeah, you know, you could be a famous actor and be a terrible human being.

36:48 Yeah. Yeah. It's so I mean sometimes I'm lucky that I spent all that time in Hollywood because it you get to see like Instagram can be an amazing tool and it brings people together and People share, amazing, vulnerable things on there.

37:07 I try to sometimes there's other times when I just share practical tips, right? I understand the platform, well enough to have grown like a following But it has nothing to do with my talent is Adventure. Like nothing at all.

37:24 Actually, yeah. And Aristotle said, we are what we repeatedly do. If you repeatedly, take pictures of yourself, you will become good at taking pictures of yourself, and that's skill. There's nothing wrong with it. But if you repeatedly, teach yoga classes and practice yoga, and practice meditation, and become a good yoga, teacher writer, or musician or whatever. The unfortunate thing now, is that in order to get Really amazing opportunities.

37:54 A lot of people now have to build following yes and some of the teachers who are great that aren't good at that are having to play that game and it feels very inauthentic and I feel bad for them, right? Because teachers that are better teachers than me and they don't have the following.

38:14 They just don't have it. I mean they put their energy into teaching yoga. Yeah. Not building Instagram. Following and yeah, they start building that following. They're not putting that energy into yoga. Yeah. I always try and tell my students to teach 1000 classes first and then maybe consider yourself an entrepreneur right then, right. But at first, you're just a teacher. Just enjoy being a teacher at.

38:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we, He's so much, there's so much yoga on Instagram, my My Feet full of it when I go to the search feed its all full of yoga and it seems there's such a people want to do yoga to be on Instagram and what I noticed and I'm sure you have there's a lot of incorrect yoga being done on Instagram. They're doing it just for the picture. So poses might not be right alignment, might not be right. And it's something that Michael's been working on as helping to bring together the

39:16 correct alignment and Anatomy with yoga. And there's just so much disconnect that people will see a picture of somebody doing a downward dog incorrectly, but this guy's got a million followers and they, oh, that's how to do it. That's the right way to do it and then that transcends down to his followers.

39:37 Yeah, well, I think whenever Anything becomes really popular. It gets watered down. Yeah. And There's both good and bad to that. So, like yoga is becoming incredibly popular. And that means the because there's more and more and more stuff out there. It's getting watered down and then the the bar has been lowered.

40:02 More and more and more. Yeah, and that's unfortunate. And again in Instagram, which I don't even dislike, and I used to hate it. Now, I don't even dislike it. I just really Encourage people to not take it too, seriously.

40:23 It's not the It's not the New York Times of it's not a credible Source tell that to some people. It's not a it's not a credible source for Quality. No, it's not. No, but it's fine, it's fine, it's connects people. I go back, love hate, love hate.

40:43 There's different aspects of it. I've met one instance is years ago. I was posting quite regularly and meeting some people online and I followed this one. Guy name was Chris Walker. Yeah, back in. When I was just got the Bali. Yeah.

41:02 And we started, you know, commenting on each other's pages. And, you know, talking he was in the yoga. I was into yoga. He was just starting in like two years later. I was at Bali, Spirit Festival. Just sitting down and he just comes up to me. And he was like, wait, I know you from Instagram and I was like, probably the most incredible use of Instagram that I've seen.

41:23 Just beautiful bringing people together and now he's a good friend. Friend and we both live in Bali and it's been a great way to bring people and to connect. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm all about that. Yeah, I'm all about that. And it's just when people use it as like their, the use it as like a scientific journal.

41:43 Like this person has 500 thousand followers. They must really know what they're talking about, right? That's where it's challenging. Right, you know, right? Yeah. Yeah. It really changes. It's all about the number of followed. When you look at an account how many As your app. Now, how does that translate into the yoga class room? You see these people with so many followers, especially being a male.

42:05 Maybe I have 1 million followers, I come to the yoga classroom, I'm teaching you have that responsibility. Like we talked about in the beginning of the show, to control your ego to control your power and not take advantage of the women. That's got to be really overwhelming. Yeah.

42:23 Well I think there's been there's been some studies Has shown that the more time you spend on social media. Yeah the more insecure and narcissistic person becomes. So if you're spending six hours a day on Instagram it's been proven that it has a negative effect on your self-esteem.

42:43 Yeah. And I know people with huge followings that are incredible. Like like our friend Charlie knows said the other day. Like there's some people that are incredible. They know how to work that game and they do it but also their product or their service that they're offering is top-notch. Right?

43:02 Right at the same time. There's also a lot of stuff out there that's that's not good. And the sad part is is a lot of those teachers are incredibly insecure because they know they're not good and one of the worst things.

43:17 You can do, is it teachers spend all this time on your following and then you get an opportunity to maybe teach at a festival and you get up in front of 200. People in you suck because you haven't taught your 3000 classes to be able to like be ready for that opportunity. Yeah.

43:34 And there's no cutting Corners. Yeah, and That's that's one of the dangers of Instagram is people get opportunities. They're not ready for. Yeah. And that's the thing that happened personally with someone and I think they had 150 200 thousand followers, and they were asked to lead a class and they couldn't do it.

43:52 Yeah, as I go, your whole got accounts about yoga. Yeah. So, yeah, that's can be a day. It's a great tool, but L can be dangerous. And there's a difference between having a yoga lifestyle account. Yeah, which is like, I, Help companies sell clothes, and it's all about travel and healthy, living and tips like that.

44:15 And that's the great and it's beautiful, but then you're a model, you're not a yoga teacher and that's fine. I was a model for years. I enjoy it. It's a great. It's a very underappreciated profession. Like it's great. Yeah. But if you're marketing yourself as a yoga teacher need to be teaching, yoga regularly, right?

44:36 And if you're not, then you're not developing a craft. Yep. And then, if you build this following, you could get opportunities one, you could start to believe that you're hot shit, which is not true, and then you'll get an opportunity to do something, you become, you know, then that person usually becomes incredibly scared insecure because they know they're not ready for it.

44:58 And, you know, that's the danger of social media, right? Oh well. There you have it. Walk away from this episode is be authentic. Get off the social media and do your craft, and don't sleep with your students. Don't sleep with your students and you have any other words to share with the audience.

45:18 Nah, that's it. Okay, I think we covered it all. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Thank you so much for tuning into. I am your co-host Paul. T0 do when we created this podcast, with the intention of really bringing awareness to the gifts that come when you travel the world, And next year, in 2021, I have a bunch of events coming up in February 20 21, we have a 200, our yoga teacher training in Bali, Indonesia. And then, in June, I have to Retreats one in the south of France and one in Santorini

45:49 Greece. If you're interested in any of these experiences, you can follow me at t0, do yoga guitar, on Instagram. Send me a message or you can visit elements of Power Yoga.com for the teacher training. Have a beautiful day, namaste.