Overwhelm and Boundaries in Energy Work with Cat Kabira

0:00 Hey there, before we get started on this week's episode, I would love to ask for your support by reviewing this podcast. We want to share yoga with as many people as possible and this free resource, this podcast is one of the ways that we can do that. And the best way that you can help support us is by giving us a review.

0:16 So if you go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever podcast platform you use, Scroll down until you find that star review and then give us some love. Thank you so much, and let's get started with this week's episode. One thing I remind myself and others is if you're not grounded, meaning if you're not in your body, if all the energies in your head, if you're spinning, do not make decisions from that place. You know, it's like, first, how do you come back to you? And yes, sometimes it can be a

0:46 matter of can I feel the current of the ground flowing up through my feet or, you know, drop into my Dante Anne or Haro or Sacrum, however you want to call it, or drop into the back body. But also where to make it simple of for a lot of people, if they're more empathic, meaning they're having a hard time making decisions because there's so much stimulus around them, so many people, an easy one is can you go find a place by yourself?

1:14 You know, like sometimes I just find that going into an apartment or a house or even a bathroom and I'm alone. I'm like, all right, this is what I feel because I'm no longer feeling inundated, you know, by other people because I find that empaths are just like, kind of without wanting to be just tuned into everyone else. And so it's just so hard to actually be like, OK, this is what I want.

1:39 Welcome to the Going Pro Yoga podcast. If you love yoga as much as I do, then this podcast is for you. We talk all things yoga related for teachers in order to supplement and complement and even support after a 200 hour yoga teacher training.

1:57 Or if you've never done a training before, this podcast is all about just learning more about yoga in an authentic way. Together with Paul Tioto and Byron de Marseille, we put together this podcast to provide you with a free resource to learn more about yoga. Whether you want to share yoga or teach yoga or just practice yoga.

2:14 This podcast is talking all things yoga related and we're trying to talk from the teacher's perspective and also the student's perspective to make sure we get a full 360° angle on what yoga is all about and how it's evolved in the modern world. Welcome to our podcast.

2:28 OK, welcome back to the Going Pro Yoga podcast. Michael here, your host. And we have a returning guest, which I'm really excited to re invite or to be excited to be back, I guess. And that is Kat Kabira. Yay. So Kat Kabira's back in the studio and excitingly, we actually have her for two episodes. So for the next two weeks, Kat's gonna be joining us and we're gonna dive into some topics about overwhelm as well as boundaries, and then possibly some more stuff related to that. We'll see how it goes.

3:01 The great thing about having cat on the on the podcast is we just kind of let it flow and things just go in a in a great way. So I'm excited to have you here. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

3:13 Yeah, yeah, great. So just in case maybe we can do just a quick little like who are you Cat 'cause I know a lot of people do know who you are cause we've had you a few times. In fact, let me just give it. Let me just give it.

3:26 Oh no, I've lost it. You you introduce yourself and I'll bring up the episodes from Pro 4, so. OK, well I'm, I'm Kat Kabira, originally from the States, living here in Bali for 18 years and travelling the world, yoga teacher, trainer and definitely my passion has been the subtle energetic world. I have a an energy school called the Kabira Energy School where I teach people how to manage their own energy body as well as how to become a practitioner in the

3:57 energetic arts. And it's really based on biodynamic craniosacral therapy, shamanic practices, trauma transformation, trauma therapy, and a few other things. I've been doing this for like 25 years. I never thought I'd be old enough to say 25 years.

4:16 I've been doing it since 25. Yeah, that, that that's revealing, isn't it? Yeah, I shouldn't have said that. Well, thank you for the the brief introduction. If you want to know more about Cat, or at least you know, maybe before this episode or after this episode, we have her on episode 97 where we talk about the energetic field, which is a really fun topic, as well as episode 114 where we dive into where is it basically energy?

4:42 We talk about energy and motion and just dive into that beyond just what we understand on a surface level of what energy is. So what we might feel without actually knowing, it's kind of like when you walk into the room, the energy of the room.

4:55 What does all that mean? So that's all really what those two episodes are about. And then again, today we're gonna be diving into some more stuff. And yeah, we're not really sure, but I feel like based off of some of the experiences you've had recently, overwhelm might be a good place to go into. And I can, I know for a fact that that's something that a lot of people can relate with, myself included. Especially when it comes to either doing a yoga teacher training, learning about yoga,

5:24 learning about anything really, or just work related stuff. Or it could be more into the realm of healing or trying to work on yourself and trying to, you know, go through the process of removing some unwanted, I don't want to say traumas, but unwanted desires that things like things that are happening and you're just trying to kind of clear things out, trying to lighten the load because the overwhelm is a feeling of an overload basically. So yeah, let's dive into that a

5:53 little bit. So what what I think is so important is that especially when we're looking at how to support ourselves or when we're doing various healing or Wellness or yoga practices, is that quite often, even though our intention is how can I feel less overwhelmed?

6:15 How can I feel better, more grounded, more capacity, more support, we often end up actually creating more overwhelm. And before we even dive into that, I think even just naming what is overwhelm, you know, how do we experience that in our body?

6:30 Because what I even realized personally is that I didn't know that what I was experiencing was overwhelm, right? So even just recently, without going into like sad stories, but going into sad stories like my sister passed away and I'm so sorry. I always feel I've had so many, I've had so many deaths and I still feel awkward saying thank you. But yeah, that could be another topic of how to handle grief and and.

6:59 Absolutely. That'd be, yeah. Yeah. So what I've noticed both in working with others and with myself, there's an overwhelm there where it's like an inability to yet process what's there, you know, not yet feeling the capacity.

7:16 And that won't show up as anxiety. However, overwhelm will show up for a lot of people as anxiety. What I've noticed with a lot of people is that they're like a live wire. So the smallest thing will just kind of set them off. And also watching people where it's like when we feel like we're easily triggered and maybe going into addictions. And I'm not talking about the obvious ones, you know, of just like alcohol, drugs, but even just like the overworking, the how do I numb out?

7:46 How do I not be here? Because really an overwhelm is just, if we were to define it is just an overload of the system. And we're basically like, we can even look at it. And of course I'm going to talk about energy immediately.

7:58 Is that it's like we're stuck in the body and the flow that needs to go down, down to the earth and then up to the sky. It's not happening. You know, it's like you, it's just all caught and it it's not going anywhere. And so really we're looking at where's a way that we can start to come down again. And where I find this really challenging is that it's not a one-size-fits-all for anyone.

8:33 And you know, how do we actually meet ourselves in the moment to do that? So if we were to extend that to anyone who's new to yoga, anyone who's new to Wellness, and I'm, I'm so curious to the listeners, you know, right now, because I'm sure you know, so many of you, you know, like you either remember your first year, maybe you're on your first year of deep diving exploration, or maybe you're five years in or 10 years in. And you know, and Michael, I'm

9:01 curious, you know, for you, 'cause I'm, you know, I'm sure you can geek out. For me, I could not differentiate between this is healing or this is good for me or wow, this is just actually spinning my system more and giving me too much. And actually this, what I think is a cathartic release is actually my system freaking out, being like, Oh my God, I've had too much.

9:28 Like, you know, we're about to implode. And I and no one actually, maybe I wasn't listening, but no one actually ever differentiated that with me of like, this is too much. This isn't right for you. This is not grounding you. And and I feel like it's actually an important topic because both for ourselves, you know, when we're on our own path of Wellness, because no, no matter how long we're on the path we get, we get our curveballs. There are things that are

9:58 overwhelming. How do we meet that? But also, especially because I'm gearing up for this training where I'm teaching people how to be practitioners. Like the main thing I'm teaching people is how can you start to know when you've, when it's been enough for someone, you know, teaching someone when they're on the receiving end 'cause they need to be able to know that. But how can you as a practitioner, and we can extend it to, to teachers that someone's had enough. And I know for myself, like I

10:29 tend to over give, you know, that's one of my my insecurities is like, I haven't given enough, you know, So there's like just that constant like barrage, you know, and and like it, of course, that cannot feel good to someone else, but also it can just be like an overload of their system.

10:48 So really where less is more. So this is interesting, this is very interesting 'cause you started to make me go introspectively being like, huh, what have I been, what have I done over the years that has been nurturing and I thought was along the path of growing? And you know, sometimes I don't want to say negative experiences, but certain experiences that I might not resonate with might actually rebound me into the area that I need to go into.

11:17 But I'm hearing you say, you know, when, when did your healing journey start to some degree, right? Which some people can probably be like, Oh yeah, there was a moment when this happened and I noticed like I started to shift or something like that, which a lot of people probably could relate to a yoga teacher training being something that helped them shift or something related to that.

11:36 Or maybe just yoga, experiencing yoga for the first time maybe during COVID. And that was like a safe haven. I know a lot of people can relate to that. But it's interesting what you say about like, but was it, was it though, or was it something that opened up and it was like a bit of an overwhelmed situation where your body was just like, holy crap, what do I do with this?

11:56 And then now it's, it's almost like a, it's like a, like a survival, like I need to do something now because it's all over the place. Like I opened the can of worms, so to speak. And it's like I need to either put the cap back on or I need to like address some of these things. But it wasn't like a gradual healthy amount of release that allowed it to be processed in a way that felt, I don't want to say controlling because, you know, there's an issue with controlling this in in itself,

12:22 but just in a, in a way that was manageable by the system as you described. And when you say system, I think nervous system, of course. Yeah. So it may, it's interesting because I, you know, to me, I'm just like, oh, I had something to do with Bali.

12:34 When I when I came to Bali, there was some shifts that happened. But then I was like, but I remember when I came to Bali, there was a lot of shit that was like intense. So now I'm questioning my, I'm questioning my journey a little bit.

12:45 So yeah. And I'm I'm in my own head a little bit about that. But I, I, I do like how you said the, that we want to make it, I'm going to paraphrase, but manageable, organic at the rate that is digestible, you know, and, and in trauma therapy, they always talk about titration, you know, that, that to get someone to start to healthily process something, it's like you go drop by drop.

13:10 And I remember, you know, back in the day when I first started training in pranayama, a big question was could you go crazy from pranayama? And you know, I was, I was in my, you know, 18/19/2021. I had no boundaries or limits.

13:26 You know, I was like infinite and I was going to do everything. And, and I remember pushing myself a little bit and, and feeling like, oh, this is how you can get a little bit crazy, you know, 'cause I just didn't have any awareness or ground and, and was really practicing too much. And so it is something around again, because for me it was like chasing a high feeling and it was also chasing a well, this is just different, you know, because, and I guess that's the other question is when we're

13:58 tying it into those of us prone to getting overwhelmed through our practices, what would be the motivation of why we're practicing in the 1st place and that that's going to be different for different people. For me, I didn't want to be here on this planet. I didn't like it, you know, I was looking for any escape. So what I liked actually was that, if I'm going to be blunt, was that when I was doing pranayama and meditation and yoga, I felt high.

14:25 I felt like I was on mushrooms a lot of the times and I was like, this is great because there's no come down. And and then there was still an an other place I was looking for Earth still wasn't good. You know, I was very like, you know, if we're talking chakras, like 6th chakra, 7th chakra, you know, fifth. It was like ground was boring.

14:45 And so I, I guess I didn't even really have that direction. And I maybe that's The thing is that the practices themselves aren't the issue. And it's more about where's our compass when we're doing the practices? And so it was like I was constantly chasing a high and I was getting off on it, but I didn't realize there was a fragmentation happening in my own system or that like my emotions weren't integrated or, you know, that that I just wasn't all here. So based off of what you shared,

15:16 I'm trying to translate it back into maybe my experiences or other people's experiences. And the thing I think of is like activities or things that I've tried, whether it be breath work, going to breath work sessions and having like intense feelings, intense emotions, intense things happen.

15:34 Which you know, there, you know, there's guides to some degree in some of the things that I've done. But a lot of times it just feels like this is a release, go do this thing, you'll get a release. Go get this. It's healing.

15:46 This is healing, this is healing. All these things are healing. Try it, try it, try. And I also think that there's a certain, and, you know, I'm not trying to like shame this space, but I feel like there's an irresponsibility with certain practitioners and people who facilitate quote UN quote healing experiences in a way that is not responsible and is basically opening up the cap without actually titrating or slowly dripping out, you know, a, a healthy response, a healthy amount of healing or a healthy

16:22 amount of release. So it's interesting because, you know, sometimes people want that they, they're like, I don't know what to do. I think I need something crazy kind of like what you're describing. I want this like change this like bam, right?

16:35 And that might actually make me feel. And then if I feel, then it's like that's a good thing. But then then if it goes into the overwhelmed state, then it's like, how do you know if it's overwhelmed? How do you not know if it's overwhelmed?

16:45 Like was that a good thing? Was it not a good thing? I don't know. Right. And I, I think it's, it's, you've named that. I mean, again, some people actually do need something cathartic because they're so numbed out. And if I'm looking at energy fields, like some people have a, a field that's like a tarp, you know, and my field is not that way. It's very porous.

17:06 Your field, if you don't mind me saying, is more porous as well, right? So, you know, there, there are people where it's like they need that shock, they need that, that like intense Bastrica, you know, they they need, but but that's not, that's not a lot of people. And, and so they can handle it, but for a lot of people, it's like, you're right, the cap goes off. And also it's like they're stuck in the middle of the process. It's like they're like, I, I

17:31 think of it as like a Picasso painting. Like you're just like discombobulated and you don't know how to come back to yourself 'cause if we were to define what, what is healing or what takes you out of overwhelm, it's like you coming back to you, you know, it's like you feel like you again. And that's what we're looking for. And I think in the beginning, it's like, there's just a search for like, how do I feel better, you know, and, and how do I, how do I feel something?

18:00 And there's this world of magic that's so extraordinary, you know, and, and also just like I want to taste everything and try everything and in no context around also the body's quite intelligent. And I think This is why I love and why I include as a foundation in my trainings biodynamic craniosacral therapy, is that it really works with the, the energy field of someone.

18:27 And as a practitioner, you're not putting anything in. You actually have to learn how to be really neutral. So you can't push even if you want to, even if they're like, I'll give you so much money to make me feel better.

18:39 It's like, OK, I got to like just really learn to listen and follow because there's an intelligence in the body that says this is how we can release. And, and sometimes it's like I'll see when I'm working on someone like, Yep, it's there, but it's not ready. And so you can't actually, you know, do anything with it. So it's learning to respect that intelligence, which again, if we go back to the 25 years, I think there's that there's a maturity that happens.

19:07 You know, like, you know, we're wild horses when we're younger and and then we realize after we crash and several times like, OK, you know, there is a reason why there's this organic process. So with regards to not necessarily going into boundaries yet, but just, you know, we're kind of touching on different things.

19:30 So like you said, words like tarp porous. And I just want to like touch on that again, just for people's understanding of, you know, what you what, what gets absorbed, what goes through, what goes through your field, what goes through your wall of defence, if you will.

19:43 I think that's more relatable language. People have a wall up when they have a defense mechanism up and, you know, wanting to be able to take down your wall, MMM and not really knowing how. So possibly getting something that comes and just like smashes your wall like that wouldn't necessarily be the smartest thing to do 'cause your wall is actually serving a purpose. But maybe the wall needs to lighten up a little bit, possibly become more porous.

20:09 And that's where that that second word comes in. Porous, meaning there's more room for breath to come through, if you will. Right. There's, you know, there could be some leaking coming through, but like a, a small amount. Yeah, right.

20:19 And when it comes to boundaries, and if we were to look at the two extremes of this, you could have a full on fortress wall where nothing gets in, nothing really gets out. Yeah, which I'm sure some people feel that way or versions of that. And then you can have completely open, completely porous to the point where you don't have any walls or no boundaries and everything goes in and everything goes out. And it's just like, you know, that would also be a place of overwhelm as well.

20:42 Yeah, it's interesting you say that because actually I notice, I mean, the reason why I love considering boundaries is I didn't have them. I didn't know what they were. I was a very like, like open to everything. And when I started learning boundaries, I did what you named, which is like totally open or actually the wall.

21:02 And I had to learn, well, what's the screen, you know, and what's healthy resistance? And, and what is even as you're naming like a healthy defense mechanism, because there's also a difference between just like stubborn resistance and actually there's, there's a function for that.

21:17 There's an intelligence for why that defense is there. And going tying that into overwhelmed. One thing I noticed, and we all do this, you know, and I'm curious, you know, if, if, if we can take a moment to consider how this happens, We override that defense without realizing why we put the defense there. And I'll just give you like an example. I love to teach like a boundary exercise in groups. And I say, you know, the, it's not about, and I think we did this during the, the, yeah, we

21:50 did during the teacher training where it's not about touching the person. It's actually just finding out where is their boundary, you know, where does their boundary begin? And, and I also say to people being approached, it's not about allowing someone in.

22:07 It's actually noticing how you feel and also respecting, you know, if it feels too close, you know, can you actually name it? Because usually as our throat chakras that get blocked, you know, we'll know how we feel on the inside, but we don't really express it to people. So in this particular exercise, this guy kept overriding, like he did not want to even have this girl as his partner. But he didn't say anything and she kept coming closer. And the whole time he was

22:36 judging himself for not wanting to work with her. And then he started thinking, well, you know, I'm really egotistical because I think I must be better than her and that's why I don't want her near me. So he started judging himself more and and making up a story about it. And he's feeling like his body, he's getting a stomach ache as she gets closer.

22:57 And when she finally puts her hand. So he never says stop when she finally puts her hand on his arm, I just happened to turn around and look at him and he just looked so miserable. And I'm like, what just happened to this guy? And so afterwards, you know, I talked to him to be like, what was that?

23:16 You know, and, and he said, well, he, he named the process. I said, and I said, well, isn't that interesting? And he said, he said, I, I suffer from anxiety and overwhelm a lot in my life. And I'm like, well, how much do you actually override then what you're actually feeling, what your needs are? And, you know, going back to that, like, we'll judge ourselves especially like using that kind of that new age or yoga idea of like, I need to be compassionate or I need to be open, you know, and as Brené

23:43 Brown says, you know, compassion requires boundaries. And so it's like we'll actually think, oh, I'm not being nice or kind because I don't want that instead of actually there's an intelligence for why I might need some space.

23:59 It may not be personal. Most of the time it's not, but there's an intelligence there. So I guess long story longer is how much do we actually override this intelligence in our system? You know, the defense that's actually healthy.

24:12 So that there is kind of as you named that like all or nothing, you know, that's not healthy because we, we're not looking for wall or tarp, we're not looking for totally open. We're looking for that screen. We're looking for that expansion contraction. I'm coming closer, I'm going further away. That's normal.

24:30 You know that that's just how things flow. But there can be so much self judgement of how I think I should be. That really stops us from being organic in that process. This is really good for me. And also I can't imagine I'm going to speak for our audience and be like, yes, this is helpful.

24:50 Or at least this is the story in my head. Because the extremes of this like tarp, hardness, firmness, walls, you know, can't feel, don't want to feel, trying to protect myself and completely open. Those are like, it's almost like they're easier to lean on to.

25:07 It's like it's very clear to me what I'm doing. I'm either saying no to everything or I'm saying yes to everything. And then like that's easier than trying to make a decision on yes and no in the middle in this like somewhat porous, but also protected space.

25:20 Because then the thing that I think is going to happen for a lot of people is probably another universal trauma that we face, which is making the right decision. How would how do we know if I'm making the right decision?

25:33 How do I know if I'm saying yes is right? How do I know if saying no is right? And then it's just like this another unfortunate place where self judgement might come in as well 'cause then it's like oh shit, I don't know if yes or no is right or So then it's like, do I lean back to the protective wall that I know well or do I go back to the other one because I don't want to miss out so I want to say yes or you know what I mean?

25:54 So it's almost like this in between of these two places is a little bit scary because of the risk of, let's say, making the wrong choice. Yeah, I, I love that you brought that up because I mean, you know, we, we live in the age of like say yes to life, you know, and it's like it's either a hell yes or a hell no. But when we get real, it's not like that, you know, you're not like when you're looking at the menu like chicken or pizza, like, you know, or chia pudding.

26:23 I mean, it's just like sometimes it's, it's, it's just not a hell yes or a hell no. And I know I identify as a a perfectionist in recovery and realizing that that's one of the reasons why I put so much gravitas on the decisions I make where even the smallest thing will be like, well, is this the right one? I mean, that's the language you use, right? And and so there can be this paralysis where it's overthinking.

26:52 It's like, you know, you know, it's a lose lose either way. It's a fear, it's a regret, It's a doubting afterwards and, and taking so much time and then even doing these long practices around like, well, what does it feel like in my body?

27:08 And trying to visual, visualize things and using pendulums and, but it just becomes a lot of exhaustion and, and my boyfriend actually was like, you know, reminding me it's, it's a low risk. Most of these choices are very low risk. Exactly.

27:24 And, and how to, you know, to like let that be light, you know that there isn't that, that right answer. It's just like both ways are going the same way and, and that you can just kind of hop and skip along and and repair.

27:37 But it's like we don't trust that. And, and I feel like I don't know what you think, but I feel like for even a lot of people attracted to yoga, I think are definitely much more of the perfectionist ilk. And so, you know, because think about it, with yoga, it's a very like refine the asana. It's not messy, you know, it's it, there's a lot of control there and, and not in a negative way, a refinement, you know, so to speak.

28:01 So yeah, I just love that you brought that up. Yeah, I I agree. I mean, I've been, I feel like I've been around yogis for so much for so long now, and it's only been like four years, but long enough that I'm just like, I don't even remember what it was like to not be around yogis.

28:16 But I would say there's definitely a lot of perfectionistic qualities in this sphere in which I exist myself being one of those as well. But then Maya started to question like, is that just not like a universal challenge that a lot of us face because of, you know, whether it be our, our, our guardians and the people that raise this. And, you know, if I were to kind of generationally go through it, then this would be a whole other podcast. But just like, you know, wars

28:43 and then like survival and then baby booming and then like somewhat of an abundance, but then also scarcity because it's like, well, we need to hold on to what we have because at one point we didn't have a lot, right? And then also properness and like, you know, I was raised in a in a Catholic environment. So that's very like control and proper and you know, like he's and QS and be polite and yes and no and all this type of stuff. So like for me, that's where a

29:08 lot of my perfectionist qualities came from and wanting to make sure that I make the right choices. And, and it's kind of like just the general path of what we we go through in society. It's like, you know, you're supposed to do these things where you go to school, you learn these things and then you meet someone and then, you know, you propose and you get married, you have a house and you have kids. And it's like, this is the way, This is the way. And if you don't do that, then

29:32 that's not correct, at least according to the masses. So unorthodox lifestyles and these types of things start to challenge these types of beliefs. And, you know, those small little nuances of perfectionism all throughout that, whether it be perfectionism from school and getting good grades and all this stuff.

29:47 And of course, there's the rebellions in between all of that. So I would say yes, a long way of saying yes, I think there's a lot of perfectionistic qualities in the yoga space, whether it be related to the asanas and the, you know, the alignment. Am I doing this right?

30:02 Is this what it's supposed to look like, you know, and then teaching like that's not what it's supposed to look like. It's supposed to look like this, which hopefully if you've learned with me or, or trained with me, you know that it doesn't have to be perfect. It just needs to be perfect for you right in that moment, right. So modifying and options and all that stuff. But I'll have to get into that too much. And then I had another thought and it's completely gone now. But it was related to boundaries

30:30 overwhelm. Oh man, I forget. It I think it's gonna come back. It's gonna come back. 'Cause that's what happens. So, so I'll, I'll piggyback and, and see if it just, but I think that the perfectionism is also what can drive us on our path of healing in that obsessive way at times, which again, puts us into overwhelm, 'cause if we consider what takes us out of overwhelm is actually like, things are OK as they are. I'm OK as I am right now.

31:03 I remember sitting with various masters over the years, and I will totally admit, as an unacknowledged perfectionist, when I sat with them being highly disappointed because they were just very average, normal people who actually just seemed very OK with themselves, you know?

31:22 And it was just like, but you got this pot belly and you fart and, you know, your health habits aren't so great. I mean, yeah, you look happy, but like, like it just and it and it was, it was just like I had to catch myself of, well, what am I doing spending all this time and money, you know, and this compulsion, like what am I going for?

31:42 And realizing that that running itself, that chasing, you know, the Wellness was actually not at all taking me to where I wanted to go. So that's kind of where we are is, is we're talking about the, the Wellness, the healing, the that's really I think where where we're going with a lot of this. I mean, you can relate a lot of these things in different ways, overwhelm and stuff like that.

32:03 But I think when it comes to the environment in which we are in with this yoga space, yeah, we all want to be better. We want to take care of ourselves. We want to, we want to be our best selves, quote UN quote, right. We want to heal ourselves and possibly share that with others. Because yoga in itself, which is a, you know, it's a big thing. There's a lot to it.

32:22 It's not just the asanas, Yoga itself has done something for us. That's why we're listening to this podcast or if you're listening to it, because it's like, I want to learn more. I want to see what else is possible. And then also I want to be able to share this with the people around me, right?

32:36 So I think that's what what we're talking about. Really, this is just like this, this, this space of healing, the space of what's good for me, what, what's going to help me, what's the right choice for me and these types of things.

32:48 So I remembered what it was and then I wrote it down or released a word to remind me. And that's about making the right choice. And often times what you said was we think that some of these choices might be like catastrophic choices. And it's like, if I don't make the right choice for this one, Oh my God.

33:05 Like it's going to, you know, it's going to implode, like everything's going to go wrong. But like you said, a lot of times these choices are almost insignificant in the change that they will be right. The path in which you're travelling is you're still going to be travelling in that path, but you might just, you know, take a sidestep here and left and right and you know, maybe take a couple of seconds back and but you're still going to be going in the same general

33:29 direction. So I wrote the word risk down because I remember one time and I think it helps me and I, I helped my partner Christina, because she has a hard time with making big decisions related to certain things. Or at least this is the perception that it is a big decision. And then kind of going into like the worst case scenario of the choice that you're going to make. And sometimes that can help to give light to, Oh, I guess it's not that bad if I do make that

33:56 choice or if I make that choice. But I do believe that a lot of us put a lot of emphasis and wait on some of these decisions or choices. And then it kind of paralyzes us or overwhelms us to be like, which one is it, yes or no?

34:12 Because it feels like a catastrophic risk and a catastrophic risk, in case you're wondering what that is, is a risk where you do something and then the the negative of that risk is so bad that it's hard to recover from, right?

34:25 That's like catastrophic risk to me is like you, you know, you, you do something and you lose your leg. Like you, you know, you're going to motorbike ride and the risk of that is you, you know, maybe you don't, you're not wearing a helmet or something like that and you hit your head and now you have a traumatic brain injury.

34:40 Like that's a catastrophic risk resulting with an, a significant change afterwards. It's very difficult to recover from and a lot of the times that is not the case basically. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, I love that you brought that up because, you know, growth requires healthy risk. You know, it's like, first you need to kind of incubate and get your ground, but then it's like you can't be in a comfort zone. We actually require risk, you know, to, to feel good to, to, I mean, it makes our, our brain

35:13 sparkle and, and it's just like what we're meant to do. And you're right, because if we're, if we're actually looking at these kind of catastrophic risks, the things that paralyze us, I don't think there's anything I've ever done that's been catastrophic risk, you know, and yet that's how we're functioning. That's how we're, you know, acting. And so as a result, it's like our movements get really small and not actually allowing ourselves like we like I, I was thinking about how I just

35:42 started weight training this year because it was like the one thing I haven't done. And when I first started weight training, like I remember being on the leg press and being like a dancer, Pilates Yogi person, I was like, this is, this is painful, 'cause it, you know, it wasn't relaxing.

35:58 It was like I'm pushing. And then, you know, the next day I'm like, I don't know if I'm walking so well. And, and yet like I had to prime my nervous system to, you know, getting used to this. This is a different quality of sensation. And then actually it's been great. Like it's, it's changed, you know, my, my, it's really enhanced, you know, all my, my performance. But to grow, it's like we also have to get familiar with these new sensations and trust them.

36:25 And anytime it's new, it's like we're almost all little cats where it's like, you know, you put a toilet paper roll in the middle of the, the living room and the, the cat's suddenly suspicious and like won't enter the room for two days because there's suddenly like a toilet paper roll, right?

36:40 So it's like, you know, we can get like that of, of being suspicious of anything new. My watch, I was like, what's vibrating? There's a sound and so it, it is familiarizing and like, I can handle risk, I can handle these stretching, you know, I can handle like I, I crave it, I want it. And so priming our system, I think also prevents overwhelm because a lot of times we jump into overwhelm when it's like something that's a little bit new. It's like, I can't handle this.

37:08 And we we can get very dramatic as opposed to like, no, this is manageable. Great. SO I think I think we've laid a pretty good foundation of this like overwhelm boundaries to some degree. So let's let's go into some practical like scenario of OK, great. Thank you.

37:27 I understand Kat, I understand Michael. And now when I notice maybe I'm overwhelmed right now and that's why I'm listening to this podcast with certain decisions in my life and I'm not really sure what I want to do. Or I'm just, I'm kind of in this stuck in between thing like, what do I do? How do I help myself?

37:44 What can I do to help me make a choice even if I'm not sure which is the right choice? Like how can I prime my being myself, my energy, my field, whatever you want to call it to be able to make a choice? Without reiterating the 1st episode, one thing I remind myself and others is if you're not grounded, meaning if you're not in your body, if all the energy's in your head, if you're spinning, do not make decisions from that place. You know, it's like first, how

38:16 do you come back to you? And yes, sometimes it can be a matter of can I feel the current of the ground flowing up through my feet or, you know, drop into my Dante Anne or Haro or Sacrum, however you want to call it, or drop into the back body.

38:32 But also where to make it simple of for a lot of people, if they're more empathic, meaning they're having a hard time making decisions because there's so much stimulus around them, so many people, an easy one is can you go find a place by yourself?

38:48 You know, like, sometimes I just find that going into an apartment or a house or even a bathroom and I'm alone and I'm like, all right, this is what I feel. Because I'm no longer feeling inundated, you know, by other people because I find that empaths are just like, kind of without wanting to be just tuned into everyone else.

39:09 And so it's just so hard to actually be like, OK, this is what I want. Yeah, that's like the porous, right? Yes, the Super open porous would be like the empaths to some degree. It's like you can't think for yourself because you're absorbing everything else, because you don't necessarily have healthy boundaries or healthy walls to be able to be in your own sphere. So it's like until you start to manage that, it's like, yeah, like go be alone, make it easy

39:31 on yourself 'cause then we can like judge ourselves like, oh, I'm being an empath. It's like, OK. And then again, super simple. Nothing earth shattering as I say it. But to take, to take ownership of it has to feel right to you 'cause often times we're manipulating ourselves to trying to be someone who likes this thing or, or judging ourselves 'cause we don't want it.

39:54 And so it's like going back to the simple. Does this just feel right? Is there any sort of joy that comes from it? I mean, for me, I also will be like, do I actually see it happening? You know, and, and not trying to see it happening, but like, it's just like, yeah, I see it. It's like part of the flow.

40:12 And that's where I found energy work so helpful was that I realized there's an easy flow and you just follow it. And that often times I'm trying to manipulate myself. And, and it's, it's, it's also accepting yourself because again, that self judgement of like, I don't want to be that kind of person who doesn't want that and does want this of like, OK, it's, it's OK that this is what I actually would get pleasure from. And I, I feel like there's a

40:37 denial of pleasure. I mean, that this is something, again, a whole other episode. But you know, as as much as we need to learn how to handle sadness and grief and anger, pleasure is so essential to actually ground. I like this, you know, if, if you want to quickly leave your body be somewhere you don't want to be, you know, but it's like if you, if you like something you're going to suddenly all parts of you are going to show up.

41:05 Like I want to experience this. Would you say like that makes you become more present than? This 1000% I mean, that's, that's a quick trick. Like when I have people who are chronically overwhelmed, anxious, ungrounded, I'm like, look, we can do all these energy, all these energy sessions, but tell me about your life.

41:23 And they're like, well, I hate my job. You know, I, I don't feel safe in this relationship. I have a hard time saying what I really want. You know, I'm miserable doing this and I'm like, well, no wonder, you know, we want to build a life that we want to show up for that. As you've I've heard you use the word curiosity so many times, not in this episode, but in general of like, OK, I'm curious.

41:45 So it's making me want to engage. So I think that also when we think about choices, we deny those that feeling of what does pleasure feel like in my body? You know, and it's going to be very unique to each person, but it's like something that just gives energy, something that just like for me, like there's like a spreading in my heart.

42:05 And if I try to analyze it, I kill it because it's just like, I don't know why I want to do that, you know? But it's like, can you start to follow that pleasure current? And, and that's where it gets simple of just, and, and where you can use a friend to listen to you.

42:20 And I'll play a game of like, here's choice one and choice 2. Notice the one that just gives you so much energy 'cause that's the one you know that that's that's most alive. This is really good for me anyway, hopefully for other people, but it's helping me. Yeah, just look at decision making or just like discernment choice in a different way.

42:45 Now I'm going to throw a little bit of a curveball, see what happens. This is something that, so my birthday was last month and somewhat thank you. Someone asked me a question of like, what was one of the biggest lessons you've learned in the last 10 years 'cause they turned 40. So they're like, oh, the last decade, like what was something that was like, you know, a big lesson that you'd love to share? And they're a room full of people. And I, I had an answer, 'cause

43:09 this is something that I've been working on, but I'm curious to know what you think about it. And my answer was to continue to be curious about how to determine your intuition, Like how to determine whether this is my intuition and my actual deep down desire versus a condition or a pattern of, let's say, a protective mechanism or something I learned from my parents or something that I learned from the environment in which I'm around that is related to, you know, whether it be like

43:43 a trauma or something like that. So being able to figure out a way 'cause I don't know the way 'cause someone asked me, look, how do you do that? And I was like, I don't know, I just keep showing up. Maybe that's the answer.

43:52 But basically how, how to try to determine like this feeling is this is a yes feeling for me. This is an intuitive, like this is what I want versus this is what I want because I don't want that over there because of a pain or a fear or a condition or a thing that I learned. Right.

44:09 So it's a, it's a very different if it's a very challenging thing to do. So which is why I wanted to throw it at you to see what you thought, would you? So for me, I'm thinking things like, you know, the presence obviously helps a lot. The groundedness helps a lot.

44:23 Being able to feel supported in your root chakra. So your basic needs like how's your irritability? Are you sleeping while are you eating well? Like are you in your head? Are you in your body? Like this is a good place to like, to be able to make decisions like you're saying, or evaluate your, your true feeling, your true sense of what you you want, like your truth, if you will. So that's what I think is really valuable for a lot of people is how do you know if you actually

44:50 want that or you're just saying you want that because of some other pre-existing condition or pattern that you've had throughout your lifetime. What do you think? About that, I mean, I think it's brilliant and I think it's, it's important to, to admit that there's like it's nuanced and there's many textures and you know, I do like that you brought, well, you have to keep showing up because part of it.

45:17 And, and when you were speaking, and for some reason, like I, I was initially thinking of something else, but when you were speaking, I was actually thinking about relationships and intimate relationships and how often times we can, I'm speaking personally, but also with, with working with others, stay in a relationship that is actually not working because it's like, well, I'm actually trying to break some sort of pattern as opposed to this is actually the relationship I want to be in.

45:44 And so how do we start to measure that? It's actually the thing that we want. And I think part of it is, let's say that it's a condition we're rewiring. Let's pretend that there was some trauma that happened. It's like you have to see that there's a different possibility that's emerging from it as opposed to doing the same loop over and over again.

46:08 Because it's like, you know that you're, it's a condition. Because a condition to me is like a hard pattern of like it's, it's, it's empty, it's robotic. It's, it already has its loop. Whereas you know what you're talking about. It's alive, it's fresh, it's moving, it's squiggly. It's, it's like a lava lamp, right? So there's much more possibility. And so, you know, and also from doing it, there's going to be expansion and growth that comes from it and it's gonna feel good.

46:36 And I, I think that that not chasing pleasure, like on that high level, but just there's, there's something that feels really good. And sometimes I feel like I'm like, I'm flirting with this overwhelm piece, but where we'll bypass thinking, Well, this is just a conditioned response that I have and I want to break that. So I'm going to keep thrusting myself in these situations and I'm actually not acknowledging that this actually just isn't working for me or it's freaking

47:05 my system out, or I'm just not happy with it. But damn it, I'm doing something new. You know? It's like there's still an underneath that we have to look at. This is really good as well. Awesome. I'm thinking. I'm thinking processing.

47:20 Yeah, possibilities. Does this decision or does this feeling lead to possibilities, maybe exciting possibilities, or is it feel like this is the thing that doesn't really open up doors or possibilities? That's a great way of thinking about it, and that's why I'm like thinking about it, right?

47:38 Now, well, and, and as you just said, like the, the possibilities, because if we go back to it's a conditioned response and it's, it's like I'm avoiding a certain feeling. I'm also choosing this because I want to ensure a false safety.

47:53 And so it's going to be like, I already know what this is. You know, it's a perfect circle. It's a dead end. You know, it's like, there's no surprise, you know, it's boring, but I know it. Whereas the other one is like, Oh my God, you know, like it's, it's, it's, it's infinite possibilities. And so of course, you know, it can feel scary, but it's like a healthy fear.

48:13 And so I think that's a great differentiation of is it alive or is it just like the end? It is interesting. OK, cool. So that was really helpful for me. And then the other thing I wanted to kind of bring into this conversation is just like I said, showing up and just trying and, you know, not trying not to allow decisions or feelings to paralyze you.

48:42 And then refraining from feeling or refraining from making choices and knowing that whatever choice you do make, it doesn't it's OK if it's not the quote UN quote correct one, right? You just make one or you, you trust that feeling and you go with it.

48:56 And then maybe you go with it and you're like, oh, actually that's not correct. And then you backpedal and you go the other way. That's OK. Changing your mind is totally cool. But if you keep showing up and you don't judge yourself for making the choices or doing these things, then your skill of intuition or your skill of decision making or your skill of whatever this is starts to just refine a little bit more, a little bit more. It's kind of like the experience

49:25 of what I imagine it is to go through the energy work with the training. It's like, how do I help people with this energy stuff and like these boundaries And like, you know, when you're training, it's, it can be a little bit overwhelming, like how do I even do this cat?

49:37 But it's like, if you keep showing up, don't judge yourself, the skill will refine itself slowly and you just need to trust that your body, you in this universe around us, has so much intelligence that if you trust and you just keep showing up consistently, things will get easier and easier slowly but surely. And then that maybe that's that fluid flowing sensation of that intuitive like, ah, this just feels like the right way to go. Might actually start to reveal

50:04 itself more. I love, I mean, you said so many good Nuggets there, but you know, it's true with the showing up of that's the only way it works in in the energy work. And I remember when I was learning, you know, as a student, how to do energy work. I also had my own paralysis that I noticed other students have of, well, I'm not in a good place today. And so like I'm not going to be able to do good work, not realizing I could show up tired or Moody or sad and that just by being present around other

50:36 people that would also help shift whatever it was because they're again going to that perfectionist. It's that like I need to hyper prepare or over prepare to be good enough, not realizing like, you know, things are constantly moving. And so the showing up actually is the medicine and I the the topic.

50:56 And this is a little bit of an offshoot, but when you said showing up, I have a lot of clients that, and I've, I've had this piece for myself as well of like, I don't feel like I belong. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm the odd one, I'm the weird one. I'm lonely, I'm different and, and not realizing that not only showing up, but choosing to engage like here I am, you know, I remember going to a party and it was like, instead of being like, do I want to go to the

51:21 party? Do I not want to go to the party? Should I stay? Should I go? It's like I, I'm, I'm a very shy person. You know, I admitted to you right before we, we got on this like, Oh my God, I was so nervous, you know, like for our first, you know, podcast, right.

51:35 And you know, so I'll, I'll often times walk in alone to a party and like internally I just want to like die and hide. And yet like there's also a part of me that's like, but there's people, you know, and we can talk and play.

51:48 And so I'll, I'll engage that part of me and like, I'll let people see me. I'm going to show up and I'm going to also choose here instead of letting the, the staying to the party, staying at the party or leaving be the thing. It's like I'm also my willingness to be here and be with my choice.

52:05 That in itself, like owning the choice is going to be the medicine. So there isn't, there's no right answer. The right answer is I'm in it like I'm present. I'm I'm owning it. That's, yes, very good. Very, very good. Because yeah, just showing up isn't necessarily enough, even though it is a good thing in the context, even in this is like physical, like I'm literally showing up to this thing.

52:30 But like, are you going to be present for that choice? Are you going to be present for that decision to show up? Because if you're not, then you might have already made your decision before you even showed up. So you need to be somewhat open or somewhat porous to that decision that you made to see the possibilities if they exist.

52:51 But if you don't show up with that openness, then you won't see, you won't see what what possibilities might happen. And you show up to the party and you're like, wow, this is actually really fun. Or hey, I just saw so and so and oh wow, they're doing this cool activity.

53:03 I love doing that stuff. Boom, now your world is different. Very fun, very fun topic. OK, is there somewhere else that we need to go with regards to overwhelm or establishing boundaries? I feel like we talked about some of the practical aspects, but then just thinking about where we're going to go next.

53:28 So just basically wrapping up this episode is where we're at here, but I'm just wanted to give some time for some space of possibly something else that might need to be said or felt. I think the the last practicality just around boundaries, because not respecting one's boundaries will lead to overwhelm is, you know, we oftentimes think of boundaries in regards to the other.

53:53 And it's like we'll also our boundaries with our self. And as I've named before, how we constantly can override, judge, criticize, manipulate. We do that more than we think. And so that's really essential to take our, you know, to respect ourselves, you know, and to not being that overwhelmed.

54:11 And on a really simple level, you know, just like we're saying, where's their energy? You know, that's how you make your the healthy, the choice that's right for you. It's like there is a feeling in the body that's actually quite clear and palpable that we often times will override of like like I'm I'm sick to my stomach. Well, that's a boundary right there. You know, I feel angry.

54:33 Anger is a very misused emotion. Like to me, when I'm aggravated or frustrated, I know my system just needs space and that and that someone's pushing on me, you know, and as someone who I don't feel like it's OK to be angry, you know, it's like, I'll I'll bypass it. But like there's something around irritation, you know, of like, OK, so it's like if, if, if we can tune into the ways our bodies speaking to us in terms of sensations, you know, stomach digestion issues, burping

55:05 sometimes can be one. And also just the emotional field, because again, we need to respect what's here as opposed to trying to be something that we're not. And, and it's like, because boundaries are basically you taking up your space and, and really being present.

55:25 And, and why I think boundaries are so important, I guess just to tie in a little bit, is that it's the one thing that's not really worked with in it's, it's a passion piece for me in terms of working with energy, with, with myself and with others.

55:42 And it's been something that's helped me not get sick and doing sessions, not get sick, being a yoga teacher, you know, not being drained, not taking on other people's sadness or pain and, and, and not over giving. So I think there's, there's, it's something so essential just in functioning in this world.

55:58 And there's so many nuances. So, you know, I, I will be weaving that in next time, you know, as we talk a little bit more. Yeah, great. Yeah, I think of the word burnout comes to mind. Yeah. Which is basically what we're talking about to some degree, right?

56:13 Overwhelm and doing too much, taking too much in, too much on our plate. Too much, too much, too much. It's overwhelm. It's burning out to the point where your system is just like I need to go hide in a cave somewhere with puppies just to feel better, basically.

56:31 OK, great. So this is fun and I want to continue this conversation next week. And but we're we're going to kind of we're going to continue to grow with it. I think. Yeah. And we're going to go in some different directions. And not to tease that too much, but if you like this conversation and you want to know more, definitely TuneIn for next week, we're going to continue a little bit more with Cat, but just mention a little bit about your training. I know that's coming up soon.

56:56 So just give a little bit of feedback for someone that might be sparked interest in. That so it's geared for people who are more empathic and highly sensitive just because again, really learning how to manage your own energy, body and boundaries are essential. So there's a lot of work of just understanding how you're wired. Everyone's quite unique and so it's also important for you to understand how you are and how to meet yourself. Also for yoga teachers so you

57:22 can work with how do you hold the field for groups. I have a lot of psychologists that come and naturopaths, naturopaths and body workers who want to really learn a different quality of touch because the practice is very both you're going to learn hands on work and also how to work off body.

57:39 And then we even have a whole like remote distance and shamanic section and also coaches, you know, tend to come for it. It's based on 4 pillars, so biodynamic craniosacral therapy, trauma transformation. So bringing in the somatics and some trauma therapy and, and really how to work in a very healthy way that's digestible for the other and for yourself and shamanic practices, which you know, in itself, it's really important to define because there can be a lot of hazy ideas or thinking.

58:13 It's such a like an out there thing and it's quite, quite practical. And I love bringing in kind of like some of the more modern psychological and embodiment practices that are actually very shamanic, but we just tend to call them something else as well as personal development.

58:30 It's for two weeks and it's like 8 hours a day. It's, it's intense, you know, but you're also relaxing the whole time. So it's different from memorizing information 'cause you're actually being in the energy field and learning it. There's a lot of experience in practice. You get a very big manual that you probably will be kind of reading a little bit and then later on really reading. And then six weeks later I actually do a whole business integration.

58:58 Cause a lot of people that are coming already are coaches or psychologists, yoga teachers, naturopaths, etcetera, where they want to figure out how do they make this their own. And I love it. I mean, it's, I've been teaching this since 2010 and it's, it's like, I love it.

59:14 Like even this time there is there's new practices that I'm teaching and so I'm very excited. Yeah. I can see that in your energy field as you're talking about it. And so it's it's two weeks. So it's about 100 hours, Yeah.

59:26 It's 100 hours and and and then you get like a bonus five hours later on. But and and what I love too, because way back in the day, I was actually pre Med like I wanted to be a doctor. And So what was hard for me as a learning energy work was that it was utilizing a different quality of intelligence. And so I had to learn how to not push, how to not do, how to work with the intuition that there can be so much suspicion and distrust.

59:56 So it's really fun to kind of watch the whole group go through this process and, and really understanding what blocks you from really tuning into this energy. And everyone kind of has like their their their place that they really jive on. Some people really get off on the crane of sacral part. You know, some people really get off on the shamanic and. What I like how I, I teach it is that I'm really inviting you to figure out your way.

1:00:20 So there's many different super senses and it's important that like I'm very careful in my languaging of just because I'm very visual and I can feel everything that not everyone's just trying to do it my way. And, and it's, it's based on really being grounded, of course, but also boundaries.

1:00:37 And I would say that it's a game changer learning how to work with a very subtle energy field because when you're respecting someone's boundaries, it's like they just, you can feel someone's feel just like pull you into their like deepest part of themselves in such an easy way.

1:00:53 So again, that prevents the overwhelm because you're constantly getting invited anyway. I could just keep on talking. About no, this is good. I mean, it starts June 9th. Yeah, June 9th to June 22nd. Yeah, great. I know this because I wanted to do it, but I'm teaching and I'm so busy that I couldn't actually make it work. So I'm gonna join the next.

1:01:13 Yeah, I and I am noodling on the next date, so you will definitely be the. Definitely let me know as soon as possible. Do you see how excited I got there? Yeah, I was like, yes, 'cause I was a little bummed that I couldn't take this round.

1:01:22 So if you're interested, you know, reach out to Cat. We'll put the, you know, your contact and the link and stuff in the show notes if you have questions to know more about that. Otherwise, yeah, TuneIn, next week we're going to continue this conversation.

1:01:32 We're going to kind of grow from it probably maybe even talk about a little bit about shamanic stuff is maybe in Crane of Sacral completely could mention that as well. But yeah, thank you so much, Kat. Thank you very much and thank you.

1:01:44 Yeah, of course. And thank you everyone for tuning in and listening this week. And yeah, we'll speak to you next week. Beautiful. All right, bye for now. All right, before you go, let me just tell you about the going proyoga.com platform O right now you can go to goingroyogacom and check it out for free for seven days where you can actually learn more about yoga in the ways of alignment, cueing, sequencing, yoga anatomy. So that if you've done a 200

1:02:09 hour teacher training and you want to continue to learn ractice and grow, this latform is definitely for you. So I definitely suggest checking it outgoingroyogacom right now. You can try it out for free for seven days.