Breathwork for Processing Emotions, with Cat Kabira

0:00 Hey there, Before we get started on this week's episode, I would love to ask for your support by reviewing this podcast. We want to share yoga with as many people as possible and this free resource. This podcast is one of the ways that we can do that. And the best way that you can help support us is by giving us a review.

0:16 So if you go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever podcast platform you use, Scroll down until you find that star review and then give us some love. Thank you so much, and let's get started with this week's episode. We won't have time to drop in every single moment, you know, Sometimes it's like, Oh my God, I got to show up to work.

0:34 I got to show up for this person. I'm driving right now and it actually wouldn't be appropriate. And. And yet there's a very big difference between like bypassing, shoving away coping versus like, but I am going to get to you, you know? And so it's like, how do we make that sacred space, you know? And the end of the day is great because it's like there's always so much there and and then you can really like allow yourself to like drop in.

0:59 And feel welcome to the Going Pro Yoga Podcast. If you love yoga as much as I do, then this podcast is for you. We talk all things yoga related for teachers in order to supplement and complement and even support after a 200 hour yoga teacher training.

1:17 Or if you've never done a training before, this podcast is all about just learning more about yoga in an authentic way. Together with Paul Tioto and Byron De Marseille, we put together this podcast to provide you with a free resource to learn more about yoga. Whether you want to share yoga or teach yoga or just practice yoga, this podcast is talking all things yoga related. And we're trying to talk from the teacher's perspective and also the student's perspective

1:41 to make sure we get a full 360° angle on what yoga is all about and how it's evolved in the modern world. Welcome to our podcast. All right, welcome back to the Going Pro Yoga podcasts. Michael Henry here. And today we have a returning guest.

1:57 Very exciting. Kat Kabira is back on the podcast. Hi, Kat. Hi, welcome back. Thank you. I'm excited to have you here, and this is the first time we're actually using this new studio, so hopefully it sounds good on the other end. It sounds good in my ears right now. Yeah, sounds great.

2:13 Yeah, cool. We're also trialing out video, so I'm not going to promise that that exists, but it might work. It might exist. You might be able to watch this video later. We'll see. But Kat's been on the podcast before, I think it was around episode 9597 and talked a lot about energetics, the fields I'm holding, space as a yoga teacher and stuff like this.

2:34 Kat's also been able to come and join in our expressions of power training, which is a hands on adjustments training, which I'm sure many of you know about. And if you don't know about it, basically it's a 50 hour training, five days where we actually just learn how to do hands on adjustments.

2:48 And when you do hands on adjustments, you're usually entering people's space or energetic field, placing your hands on them. So there's a lot of conversation that from the previous podcast actually was really applicable.

3:00 So she's she's been able to come into those trainings and help support. So thank you for that. I loved it. Yeah, it's really fun. And then today we were kind of just riffing before the podcast started and we thought we'd start to move into a little bit more of, you know, emotions to some level and kind of wherever that takes us. So that's kind of where we're going. But just in case someone doesn't know who you are and they haven't listened to the previous

3:24 episode, maybe let's just give them a little like one O 1 of Who is Kat? Who is this? So who are you, Kat? Such a deep question. Where are you from? OK, so born in the United States. Have lived in Bali since 2006. Have been traveling around the world as well.

3:43 So I'm basically everywhere and started yoga in 1997 and meditation and started teaching in 2002. Energy has always been my thing. I started when I was nine years old but really rejected it for a long time. And then when I was looking for ways to heal from a eating disorder and. Myriad of addictions, energy work was the thing that really spoke to me.

4:07 I felt very failed by the conventional health industry doctors. So that's why I'm so passionate about energy and I have my own energy school that is a mixture of craniosacral therapy and shamanic work, Barbara Brennan school. But really I love also the practicality of it. So a lot of people think of energy as a very kind of out there woo woo thing and.

4:30 I think a lot of times too, like when we start to look at energy, I'm already going off. But anyway, it's it's almost like an escape or we're craving a place that's better than here. So I found that for my own personal practice and what I teach is actually it's good to be here.

4:48 Like on this planet we Incarnate it for a reason. And how to find that magic here interesting? Yeah. So that's that's really, I would say like The Who I am. There's a lot more I could share, but yeah, I mean, that's good.

5:02 I feel good about that. If you want to know more, just go back to the previous episode. I think you'd talk more about that. Otherwise we'll put some show notes stuff for you to to be stalked later possibly. So yeah, I think so. Something that you said, which is like, you know, being more here.

5:17 Actually, I kind of like that because I know that at least for myself, when I started to do more of my, call it, spiritual journey, more of this discovering who I am, which involves me coming to Bali, you know, six years ago and doing a lot of the things that exist here.

5:30 You know, breath work and sound healing. And you know, all these other different modalities that are basically different types of energy work, whether it be hands on touching or no touching whatsoever. And noticing a lifting of self, if you will, away from this, you know, logical grounding earth place that we live in and kind of like, quote UN quote, living in the clouds for a little while. Yeah.

5:56 And, you know, it was nice. I remember when that was happening and I was just like, wow, like, you know, you know, the cosmos and all, you know, all these things that you're experiencing and you're feeling and you're like, wow, this is what the world's all about. And then eventually that subsided for myself. And I kind of came back to like, oh, like that's cool. But like I'm like, this is life.

6:15 Life is here. And like, it's interesting to take elements of what I experienced and bring that into my life and learn from that. But at the end of the day, we're like, we're humans that are living on a planet that require food, shelter, water, all these basic needs, you know, interpersonal relationships, connecting with people and these types of things. And I don't know if this resonates with some people, but yeah, I find that sometimes there's a disconnect where, you know, sometimes people do some

6:40 of this energy work or this stuff and they kind of just, they just float away. They go too far. They don't really come back or they, they have a hard time coming back because they think that's the truth. But maybe it is for them, I don't know.

6:52 But to me, I think like you're saying it's kind of living in both worlds or at least like you have to live in this world. And if you don't like money and all that stuff, like, I got it. Money is like low vibration. It's not ideal, but it's a necessity in this life. And then taking elements of what you might pull from this, you know, in the clouds, if you will, and hopefully making your life a little bit more fruitful.

7:11 So that's kind of what came up for me when you started talking that kind of something that you were thinking. Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's a lot that sparked as he spoke, even just. Talking about how initially the the grounded logic because I think a lot of times when we think about ground it's that it's a boring very rational logical side where and I know I'm not going to like repeat the last podcast because we talked a lot about grounding but it's a

7:34 different quality with literally like OK I can feel my body and here I am and I'm very present and. But I think about two is that like the the, the saying before enlightenment, a cup is a cup. During enlightenment, a cup is not a cup. After enlightenment a cup is a cup. And you know, Jack Kornfield has, I'm going to butcher his title.

8:00 But it's like after the ecstasy do the laundry and just that that importance that, yeah, there is going to be that heightened experience. I mean, it is magic and yet. You're right that there is a place, I've been there where you can just go so far off. And to me, you know, I'll say on the other side, is that what I when I work with people, those who have a very heightened astral self or have a hard time coming back, usually there's a lot of trauma where it's like I

8:31 don't feel safe coming back here. Give me a good reason, you know. And so I actually work, and I've done this with myself, but I work with people with their imagination, with their astral self, with all those portals to start to coax them to come back here.

8:46 And so for a lot of people that get really overly fascinated and lost, it's like there is something broken and missing that can be repaired, you know, in this, this earth plane. And and you're right too. I mean, is money.

9:01 I mean, that's my question. I mean. Let's not make it a podcast about money. Or we could, but is money a low vibration? I mean, I one of the reasons why I had to start to be more grounded in my body practical was as I got older, my bills got higher, You know, I had bigger needs.

9:19 And I also had to show up differently in a more expanded way in my career. Like if I wanted to work bigger and create bigger trainings and if I wanted to have a really healthy relationships, I had to be really grounded. And so there is still that magic.

9:35 So I guess one question we can put in the pot is what what does it mean to have that like magic ground? Because to me the the gifts we get from our practices is a layer of depth and sensitivity and refinement. You know, like I've got friends and and you know a partner where they may not have done the same quality of work and they're very successful in this 3D World, but the depth?

10:01 Like when I'm putting, if I'm literally putting my hands on them, it's like I can only feel so much. And to me the way I sense people is like when I put my hands on them, how deep can I go to meet them. So it's like a a depthful meeting.

10:14 Is is the way I can best describe it. And what I hear is your ability to sense beyond what we think we already what what we think we know basically and what we think we know is based off of our five senses only And if that it doesn't fall within those categories and it's kind of like it doesn't exist type of thing, which I think I think the world is starting to recognize that hopefully that that's not necessarily the case. You know you can call intuition

10:42 like what is intuition? It's a sense. Sure it's probably a collection of different things but then you know the more you write fine tune certain stuff even proprioception if you know what that is. Proprioception is your ability to know where you are in space and time. For example, if you close your eyes and you try to find your nose, usually you can find it unless you're drunk, right? Or you don't have very good proprioceptor. That's a that's a sense.

11:03 That's a an ability if you will. So there's many senses and abilities that I believe that we do not know about that we have or we have the potential for, right? Funny enough, I'm watching the what's the show called, Life on our planet, Morgan Freeman. It's all but the evolution and seeing how like we were, you know, we're all coming from these. Like I mean whether you believe this or not, we're all coming from these like species.

11:29 We were basically mold at one point and you know we all evolved to be like what we are at least, you know, millions and millions of years ago. And you know, I'm sure at that point these animals or these creatures didn't think that they'd be able to do the things that we're doing like you know what I mean, like creating all this stuff.

11:44 And so the potential that we have I think is so much more And think, yeah, without having that deeper depth of whatever that is like doing the work to try to expand, create awareness and actually listen to beyond those normal senses kind of limits our capacity almost like there's a ceiling that like that's it.

12:04 That's what I'm hearing you say is like there's not as much depth. There's not, there's there's a limitation that there's so much more if you want to explore that it's going to be different and weird and out of the ordinary.

12:16 But that's kind of where you find that stuff, I think. Yeah, I mean 1000%. Because when I'm teaching energy trainings, I kind of do a disclaimer on the first day of like, OK, you've been in school and your brain has been taught that this is the only way to perform.

12:32 And I'm literally going to be purposefully taking you to all these places that I know. Referencing the best last podcast. When I work with kids before a certain age, they naturally have this sense. And so it's like we do just need to spend more time.

12:48 But there's going to be resistance because am I going to be believed to be crazy? Do I think it's crazy? You know, there, there can be a lot of judgment there. And it's also being comfortable with new sensations. You know, most people who receive energy sessions from me are Yogi's, so they're they're kind of already used to it.

13:07 But then there's the one off where someone has not done any yoga or meditation and I have to remember to actually put a language to these sensations, because otherwise. They can get freaked out and scared and and kind of look at me like you know, yeah so it's it's it is about having that that open mind and awareness And again I think those of us who are already driven by you know meditating and and yoga and exploration of other energetic arts, there's usually it's it's

13:38 not just for fun. You know usually there's a deeper need where it's like I, I, you know. So we're going to be more willing because we might have exhausted other possibilities. And you know, I agree with you when you said that the world is is opening, I ran in training last year and I said how many of you would have worked with me before COVID? And they were all like, no way.

13:58 So it was fun to see these people who are very practical, you know, engineers and doctors basically were like, like like, you know, there's something up that that's beyond then. Yeah, it's good you get out of the routine.

14:10 I mean, yeah, COVID was an unfortunateness. But, you know, there's always upsides to everything. There's a cost and benefits to everything. And some of the benefits is that people started to get more curious. They got out of their usual routines because COVID was, we call it the COVID blimp.

14:26 It's like what happened those two years? It's like, you know, lots of different things, but it forced people to start to whether it be look within or just look without outside to be like, what is, what is life, What is going on?

14:38 Do I want to keep doing this? What else exists out there? What other possibilities could be? So that's really cool. That's really cool. I do want to get to the emotions. I know. I was just thinking, come on, emotions, yeah, I don't want to lose the listener.

14:50 It's too much. But I do want to say one more thing. So and maybe it's relevant, most people know that I'm a physical therapist, so I work with my hands. And, you know, my hands are very, they're very gifted. Like they have learned how to feel things right when I play with my hands now.

15:06 So if you're watching the video, you can see me doing this. But basically, you know, sometimes someone will say, hey, can you come check out my knee or my ankle or whatever? And I'll just put my hands and kind of feel around and stuff like that. I'm like, oh, you know, this is what I'm noticing and stuff like that.

15:20 And then they're like, how the hell do you do that? And I'm like, I don't know. I really don't know. I just like, I've just learned how to do it over time. And then I remember whenever I was studying physical therapy and I was, you know, learning about the theory and all that stuff, and they were saying, hey, this is how you do these techniques and you put your hands here and you do this and you're feeling this. And I remember for the first, like, 6 months, I was just, like, lying to myself.

15:43 Like, yeah, I totally feel it. Yep. Yep, This is what it is. And then I like, honestly went up to one of my professors and I was like, dude, I got to be honest, like, I don't feel anything. I don't know, like, am I supposed to, like, am I?

15:54 I just feel like, I don't. I'm not going to be able to do this. Like, I don't have it in me. And he's like, just keep going. Just keep going. He's like, you'll develop it. Eventually, that sense will start to sharpen. And the next thing you know, you'll feel it. And I was like, OK, I mean, I paid the tuition. I might as well keep going, right. And then sure enough, like, you know, within the next six months, I started to notice the refined sensations in my fingertips to be able to notice

16:16 subtle changes, subtle movements within the body, the skin, the tissues underneath. And I was just like, oh, and you know, this was like 1213 years ago now. So now my hands are like very refined. And it's super easy for me now. I just like I, I do a lot of my physical assessments up. And now I rely on my hands because it's such an intelligence here now, anyway, I just thought I'd throw that in the mix, that it's possible, you know, I didn't think it was possible.

16:41 And I just kept going and trusted. And sure enough, something new came up that I could have completely rejected if I went the other way. I mean, may I? Before we transition new emotions? But what I will say is I'm I'm with you because I think whenever there's a beginning space that's unfamiliar, it's just easy to kind of shut that down. And especially because I look, I work with a lot of perfectionists.

17:04 There's so much impatience there because it's like I should have already gotten it by now and it it does take time. Same thing for me with energy work. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, you know, but it takes time just to to practice and to create that space.

17:19 So I think that's that's a brilliant, brilliant point. And also just give space for everyone. Like this isn't like a special skill. It's more like, can you put the time in? You know, it's it's a skill of devotion and practice.

17:33 Yeah, that's good skill and devotion. Nice, cool. So the other thing that came up from before, like 10 minutes ago, was just talking about energy and then emotions and then the thought of me saying, OK, well, what is emotion? And emotion is energy and motion. That's basically the transition.

17:53 I figured, at least that's what I say. It's like, you know, when I start talking about, you know, in certain trainings and stuff like that, talking about energy in the body, fascia, like what does it all mean? You know, could talk about thermal energy and kinetic energy, all this stuff, but emotion is energy and motion, right? Yeah.

18:10 Do you have any thoughts on? Yeah, well, I'm billion of course, but we'll see what comes up. Oh well, I think we when we consider I I'm just remembering our last podcast and I don't know if you remember saying it but and I could be adding my own little flair to this, but that.

18:29 You were even talking about the first time or first times as you were practicing yoga that that was where you started to sense your own emotional field. And I would imagine a lot of listeners here, you know, it ends up being a surprising place. Like, oh, I I thought I was just coming in for a little workout, you know, and and then, you know, for me it was actually like a safe place of like, yeah, I can get on the mat and I I'm really dropping in and coming

18:54 closer myself. And then I can start to feel that which I'm either. Blocking, too busy to feel, don't feel safe enough to feel or just wasn't yet ready to feel. And when we talk about emotions like energy in motion, often times when we think about like the health of the body is flow. And you know, we talked about last time how it's, it's water, it's the liquid body and so really being able to sense, you know, when we're talking about emotions in the body. We're really talking about the

19:28 the trapped emotions, you know that which we don't either don't feel safe to feel, you know, haven't given time to or are scared to feel and and how to actually create a contact place. And what I would say personally in working with others, the big challenge is that when we start to feel will immediately go into our head, mentalize, put a story to it.

19:51 And so we'll think we're processing, but actually we're just reliving the story in our head. Maybe twisting and turning it into more things, but not actually resolving it. And so I would wonder if part of our discussion today is how do you healthily process emotions and when do you actually know that it's processed.

20:09 Because if we were to try to put it like from a a place of data and you know as as as data oriented one could be working with energy, you know again it's like well do you have your flow back you know is that stagnation gone is is that block gone.

20:24 And on a bigger picture, you know the motivation there, because often times it's although we can have trap, joy, I I actually have noticed that it's just as hard for me to allow pleasure as it is to allow grief, anger, rage.

20:40 It's interesting what we preference in terms of our emotional states, but anyway whichever ones we start to allow, our energy field ends up being a lot stronger. You know there is like, I mean when I'm putting my hands on someone it's like I can see how much they allow of themselves because there's just this force field.

20:59 And if we're thinking about again the the like ground that we're talking about, it is a level of presence, you know of of hereness where it's just like there's this potency in the system and I've noticed over the years like my immune system is is way stronger because of just doing all this emotional work, processing, you know, allowing it my boundaries like my energy field is a lot stronger. It's it's not as flimsy as it used to be and and my ability like just the level of energy I

21:32 have, you know, it's like there's just more that I can get done in the day, more capacity. So yeah, those things. Are just a few things, Yeah. I mean, I I had a couple of thoughts and they're all gone now, basically. But yeah, I mean, I'm I'm visualizing things when you're talking. I'm trying to imagine, like, OK, like this force field that exists around me and how it strengthens, That's what I that's what really stuck out to me is how it strengthens. And then I was thinking, and

22:00 correct me if I'm wrong, but what I was hearing is the the more emotive we become or the more emotionally aware become, the more emotionally intelligent we become. Or we allow our emotions to actually move, even if it's uncomfortable. That actually helps to strengthen the shell, the force field around us in in one way or another. At least it can.

22:20 And that's actually, that's at least my experience. The more that I because before I, you know, was emotionally intelligent or at least allowed myself to feel, I thought I was strong, you know, I was. I was stoic as I thought.

22:32 And I didn't, you know, I was neutral. I didn't have spikes above or below. And I was just like, yeah, everything's good and gravy and nothing bothers me. And everything's all fine. So I thought I was strong and I had this shield.

22:42 And then, you know, I came to Bali and went through all these little things. I went into the clouds for a little bit and then experienced emotions and has a lot of somatic releases. And it was, you know, ups and downs and stuff like that, which was felt very light.

22:55 But then I also noticed now a strength. Afterwards, and that's kind of what I'm hearing you say is the more we work through those difficulties actually it's a result of being stronger. After the byproduct is eventually feeling stronger energetically, boundary wise, knowing what your needs are, maybe these types of things, yeah, yeah. But I think the, you know people can be resistant to to actually doing the work because what I've heard from students is will I get stuck there.

23:25 You know like I I don't know how to feel safe enough to feel these sensations and I'll I'll we can qualify like what does it mean to healthily process because I was listening to your word choice and I like that you said emotionally intelligent.

23:41 I can't remember the other phrase. But when you first said a motive, a lot of times people can mistake like, well, I'm allowing my emotions, I'm acting on them or I'm expressing and almost more on an outside performance as opposed to like, I'm letting myself feel the level of texture and where it's living in my organs.

24:03 I'm letting myself feel that in my body. And so while it can be pleasurable in my experience and I am a dramatic person, it oftentimes will feel really intense. I mean, I in the beginning it was like, I think I'm going to die and into how to, like, build that capacity of like, it's an intense sensation.

24:23 It's a wave, so energy and motion. It's just like before. It's like a stuck wave. It's starting to move, so it's going to have a climax as it starts to move through the body, and then it's going to come down and release. And so it is a practice to be able to tolerate the staying with it.

24:39 And I know for myself, in the beginning it was like I might have 10 seconds, 15 seconds, you know, now it's like, OK, I can ride it. And then like, suddenly there's like all these little magical gifts. And, you know, it's quite fun. But when I'm doing it with others, I really have to track how much they can tolerate.

24:57 Because of course, we don't want them to go into overwhelm. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm experiencing emotions. If you're not used to doing it, even a little bit of a tear or cry is a step forward for some people.

25:11 And I mean, I eventually want to get to like, how. And you know these because this is what people think. They're like, how do I do this? What do I do? You know what's the next step for me? But I I just know that you know people say like oh energy work can be dangerous or like trauma release stuff can be dangerous and like well what does that mean to be dangerous.

25:28 It's means going like too much being released when you're ready to handle it which can be re traumatizing. And like what is trauma. Trauma at least can can be defined in different ways but your body's response to something and usually it's overwhelmed.

25:42 Your body is overwhelmed so it's responding in a particular way. So if you're. Allowing fluid motion or emotion in the body to be experienced or felt maybe for the first time or at least in in this particular way. And it's too much for the body to feel that moment that's that's what can result in re traumatizing.

26:00 So it's good. I'm glad to hear you say that because it's very responsible and professional of you to say like, yeah, you got to feel like how much, right? And you know, most energy workers that I've come across. They're like, yeah, they're kind of like feeling out, like, I don't know if this person is ready for that or like, OK, maybe a little bit. This is going to be good for them. Small little steps, you know, cracking open the egg, if you will, and allowing a little bit

26:20 of a leak, a little cry, something like that. But we don't need to go into like the thinking of some of the stuff that happens here, like screaming and some of the the this, the intense somatic releases that people experience, which for some of them is probably what they need in those moments. But that stuff scares the people who are thinking like, I don't want to go through that.

26:40 And it's like you probably shouldn't go through that right now. You're not ready for that type of thing. So kind of allowing things to come through as they'd come through and just knowing that those little steps are also still kind of little milestones on to your journey. And I and I agree with you with, you know, at the beginning it wasn't easy, right.

26:58 So if you're thinking like I want to do more of this work for myself, you know, yeah, wherever you are is great, you know? And just know that it takes time and it doesn't actually stop. It happens. It keeps going. Like, you know, I've been doing it for years.

27:10 You've probably been doing it for years. And like, there's always moments where you're like, oh, I got to, I got to figure that out or I got to work on that or I got to, you know, feel into that. And now whenever I have my emotional sessions with my emotional sessions, probably know what it is. But I talked to my therapist.

27:25 Basically, she talks to me about some stuff and and and not even in those situations, but when I notice emotions are starting to come through my body, I actually get excited. I get excited because I'm like, oh shit, like this is an opportunity for me to like, progress, grow, you know, move this. Because I know there's something greater on the other side, But that's because I've already experienced some of that byproduct.

27:46 But for someone who doesn't have that experience, all they're thinking possibly is. I don't want to feel that because. I don't know if that's going to stop feeling is going to ever go away. And I might feel like that forever.

27:57 And I if I don't go there, then maybe I won't have to you know, experience that. But what I like to hear you say was it won't last forever. It will eventually pass. It'll eventually move on. It'll be processed if you ever felt so. I don't know if that resonates with anyone. But I can see how that could be a little bit of a fear of like, I don't want to do any of that stuff. I don't want to feel.

28:16 I don't want to like explore that space. And then there's also something else that comes up. But I'm sure you have something in the chamber ready to oh, I think a billion. OK well I'll, I'll write write down write down with the 3rd and you you go.

28:28 I mean what I what I hear you say and I I love when you talk about having a therapist because it what sparked to me is the the cultural conditioning we all have around what we feel OK to express with others. Not just in terms of a level of vulnerability but also not wanting to take up space or or like ruin the experience for someone else and so we can quickly bypass you know the emotion or go into our head not feel it and and there is also creating that space of

28:59 readiness. I would say that's something I learned as I kept doing the work is cultivating that space of of safety and ground so that the emotions rise really easily as opposed to someone kind of like being like OK I I need to to process this because both knowing how I was in the beginning but also when I work with kind of like newbies it can be one there can be an over eagerness and almost this mentality. I mean Michael you just mentioned it, it goes on forever.

29:30 Hell yes, right. So there can be this perception of like, well, you know what? I'm going to like invest a year or like 2 years Max I'm going to fix. All the trauma, it's all going to be gone. That's my goal by the end of 2024.

29:41 It's like, right? And it's just like, can we just relax and take out, you know, there there's while we're in this human body, there's waves, right? So. And there can be also that that search for the crisis or the climax or even just something more dramatic. And I remember shifting how I did the work with myself and how I worked with others, where this voice in my head was like, there can be elegance to this.

30:10 And the most profound shifts that I've had in the emotional field and working with traumas actually weren't those times when I was screaming. And like, you know, whether any any catharsis, it's actually really deep and quiet where it's like I dropped in so deep into the core of it where I could just really be with it and let it move.

30:31 Maybe there were intense visuals, but I was very calm the whole time. And I think just going back to that differentiation as you mentioned before around overwhelm. You know there can be that chasing of a re overwhelm thinking that we're processing but we're just making more and that actually you want to be in a very slow calm state you know to to really for that for that work to be happening because it's like Yep I'm I'm so safe that I can be beside it I'm not it you know I'm I'm actually so

31:02 remember the body lives in one time there isn't past present future. So there's actually a gift when it's like I can be beside this right now and then the that trauma can start to to move in process. Yeah, that's great. And what I think about in a moment like that is, you know, you know, if you're working with somebody, then that's obviously helpful because then you have a level of support or safe space if you are doing things or you're experiencing things on your own because there's just so

31:33 much bubbling and you don't need anyone, you're basically ready for it to go. How do you help yourself? You know, how do you hold space for yourself? How do you support yourself? And I'm sure you have some things to say about that, but the the strong thing that comes to my mind is just not judging yourself.

31:49 I was living that. I was thinking, it's like, you know, whatever happens, you know, it might be ugly, but that's OK, You know? Allow it to be ugly. Allow it to be authentic and allow it to just happen. And don't judge yourself for feeling things because everybody feels things. Everybody feels anger.

32:03 Everybody feels sadness. Everybody feels frustration. You know, guilt, shame, all these things. Everyone has the potential to feel these things and everyone probably has. And if they haven't, they're just they will eventually, because it's in there.

32:16 It's possible for them. So I I always try to give people permission to let them know. Like just don't judge yourself. Like try not to judge yourself as much as you can and just know that everybody else is going through a very similar but different thing. So yeah, individual work be.

32:33 What most people probably want to at least start when because that feels safer versus actually like working with somebody because I can feel a little bit scary. I mean I love that you is that OK if I yeah yeah jump in. I I love that you talked about not judging yourself because how do we create like a healing attitude for ourself.

32:51 And if we go back to when our life our our energy field or a life force is strongest is when you allow the totality of who you are and yower everything. You know? I mean it's it takes a lot of guts to be, you know. Yeah, I'm jealous. I'm insecure.

33:07 I'm raging. I hate this. You know like just allowing all the gnarly and also the the bliss. Like the more we're suppressing certain parts of ourself, we're also suppressing as you know the bliss parts of ourself and the joy.

33:21 And and I've met, I've never met anyone who's too kind to themselves. You know, we're we're so hard. I mean, I'm so hard on myself. That's a that's a say statement that just, like, imprinted in my brain. I've never met someone who's too kind to themselves.

33:38 Wow. Sorry. Yeah. No, I I So that's it's like that's the practice because as you spoke to me about the judge, I was like right. You know I I've noticed as I'm softening with myself I'm really kind with others like I'm just like Oh yeah, I did that one or you're just knowing like we're just humans doing our best fumbling along and it's hard you know and and there's just so much like held in US and you know even ancestrally that's held in US And so it's like that

34:07 that the level of compassion that's required. I mean that that to me is like the the growth that happens. So I would say the healing attitude you know of of when I bring it into like the biodynamic craniosacral terms is how when we're looking at someone else or ourself how can we be neutral And neutral I don't mean and I love that you brought up like the Stoic, you know, because that is a personality of like, yeah I'm fine I got it.

34:36 I'm content you know and and we can only be there if we're ignoring certain levels of ourself And it's a coping mechanism and but it's it's it's really like OK can I not judge or criticize what's here and hold a really open space but almost like I'm a kind witness to myself and really just to allow what's there and it's so easy for us to pounce on ourselves And so like that that I love.

35:03 It's like if we're doing this work with ourselves it's like we got to create a really safe space even starting with like a certain room that feels right to you that maybe like you're certain little corner where it's like Yep this is where I always go and I have a certain smell that I need or a certain music And my phone is off the door is locked and and maybe I've got a timer on and you know and I promise that I'm not going to let it get too far And and I'm also going to make sure that

35:29 I've got like an integration that's really sweet and and soothing afterwards. And and I'm also going to take away any pressure that it all needs to be resolved because I think like along with that the how we can judge what's coming, we can also expect a certain thing.

35:46 And for me the healing path has always been a very big surprise around like right, like I started with this gnarly anger but like what was really underneath was this whole other thing that I I was really denying myself. So it's it's like that's where we have to take the judgement out as well. The deeper layers of what we think we know and then we look and we're like, oh, that's not what I thought it was surprise. It's, you know, we're making light of this work, but I'm sure it's intense for, you know, the

36:17 thought of it for some people's by like, oh, it doesn't feel light and it, you know, it isn't. But I think at least what I'm getting from our, you know, little dynamic conversation that we're having right now is that for us, it's a little bit it's it's almost like it is fun, you know, You know, it's not always fun, but it it's kind of like a process that's exciting. And I think what makes it exciting for me and you might have a different reason is.

36:40 I notice that the more I do this type of, call it awareness of self, of emotional self, I suffer less. I feel like I suffer less, You know, I don't notice whether be judging myself or just feeling a tense tension. And I'm actually able to enjoy life a little bit more because I'm not spending all this cognitive energy, mental energy, emotional energy, like worrying about this, thinking about the future, worrying about the past, whatever it is.

37:10 And at the end of the day, you know, we have one life to live. And I try to live it as best as I can. And I know that when I have moments where I feel quote UN quote suffering. Suffering is a you know, it's a very subjective word, but like where I don't feel my best, you know, something comes up with an interaction with a person or a relationship, you know, personal relationship or just someone you know professionally and there's something that's get triggered,

37:36 if you will. Then to me it's like OK, that triggering is something that is causing suffering in myself. So now my process is I laser beam into what was that? What happened there? Why? You know instead of being like that's just who I am, I'm bought like I don't like that and you know I'm right there, wrong type of stuff. I I go like why did I feel like that? Why why why is this bothering me so much? Why?

38:00 Why am I so angry right now? Or why am I so frustrated or whatever it is And then I just start to get self curious, Yeah. And you know, the more that I do that, then I start to think like, oh, like because of this or maybe because of that.

38:12 And you know, that I bring it to my therapist and she helps me dig a bit deeper. But it it helps to kind of like once I figure it out, whether it's, you know, solo or with with someone like her. I feel lighter afterwards.

38:24 And that lighterness is that I don't feel like I'm suffering as much now. I can actually spend my energy thinking about like I'm going to go for a walk and watch the sunset or hang out with, you know, Christina or something like that, or do a podcast with Kat, you know, and I don't have to like stress about like tomorrow or the future or that thing that happened earlier today, right?

38:41 So reducing suffering to me is, is the the, the end product which allows you to actually, like live right before we die. So why not? You know? Yeah, I mean, I love that you nailed it with saying like, you know, ending, you know, or reducing suffering because if we even put it into energetic terms, most of the time we're avoiding emotions. And so it's like we're very strategic suddenly with our life of like, well, I don't want to go there because then I'm going to feel this.

39:12 It's most of the time unconscious, subconscious, sometimes very conscious. But then we don't really feel like we can just jump into the surprise and spontaneity and the new things we can get very fixated and rigid because it's like, well then I'm going to have to feel that.

39:26 And so instead of living in a place of control and avoidance, we can actually be in a place of of of receptivity and and surrender. And you know, part of when we work through like healing addictions, you know, a lot of times the two main things, one of the main things is like I don't feel safe enough to feel. And so it's like whether it's eating disorders, you know, alcoholism, drug addictions, etcetera, it's like that's also a reducing of suffering.

39:56 You know, it's like suddenly the need to have those addictions to start dissolving because it's like I actually my engagement and wanting to be in life is way more enjoyable than the harm that I'm doing otherwise. So it's it reduces just the general suffering, but also the extra suffering that we can put on ourselves. To avoid feeling all the feeling. All the substances and things.

40:21 I think mine was sugar for a while, that was my substance. Just love me. Give me that sugar. OK, so I don't know. This word just came up and I'm just thinking like, cool, like we're talking about all this stuff, but like one of somebody's just like this just doesn't seem reachable to me. Like that seems like almost like this, this practice, this work is like almost like a privilege to be able to do it. I don't know, maybe somebody's thinking that. Maybe not.

40:46 What would you say to that? Like do you feel like this is accessible to everybody? Like is it doable? Like depending on their environment, their situation and what they got going on in the world? Like, I don't have time for this.

40:56 Like how do I, you know, I mean, I've responses to this as well. But yeah, what do you think about that? I mean, I I will say, I mean when you say privilege. So I lived in West Africa and Niger when I was 19 years old for a year and it was the 2nd poorest country in the world.

41:13 So I was very aware of my white privilege, I have to say. And that, yeah, I mean, you know, because of course I had money, I had food, I had passport, I could travel. And so there was a level of introspection that I could have.

41:29 You know, at the time I was writing a lot that, you know, if we're going into like that extreme, you know that that if you don't have your basic needs met, then you know, are you going to be even orienting towards, you know, emotional work? Would there even be an interest?

41:47 And that's where even just like with anorexia, like refusing to eat is like a way where it's like I I tell my anorexics, we can't do the emotional work until you're eating because you're already, you're going to be in a place of of hunger.

42:01 You know, your basic needs aren't met. And so, I mean that's why also sleep. We've all been there. You haven't had enough sleep. The world is ending. It's like before you do some major process with yourself, get a good night's.

42:13 Sleep. Yeah. Good luck trying to help somebody who's like sleep deprived like right so. So I would see that like on because I I would imagine that most people aren't at that like level of extreme poverty. He's listening to this.

42:25 But we talk about privilege. It's like just to remember the basic tenants of like you have self-care is essential. Sleeping and eating well and eating enough, that is really essential to do the emotional work. I would say if we look at it less of, you know, I'm going and doing this training or a process, you know, and I can devote all this time because like maybe someone's a parent or maybe, you know, most people have nine to five jobs.

42:55 Like you don't have a lot of extra time on your hands. But if we look at it as it's an asset, as a human being, that you can just start to cultivate space throughout the day where it's having an awareness of yourself so that you can start to make choices that are better for you, which might result in a shift in how you're working or shift in how you're relating to me. It's not a privilege, it's much more, it's essential. But I would say, and this is

43:24 just my own opinion, that we can almost create, make it inaccessible of how do you do this where it's ends up being expensive therapy or like you take major trainings and retreats. And I guess that would be a question to facilitators. You know, you and I and anyone who's listening is, is how do we make this essential work Because we're all emotionally driven humans and we're all very heart oriented, you know, where it's something that's just more

43:49 normalized. So meditation. Is something that came up for me. And then I thought about like, OK, so this work, this reflection, like, you know, you can do this in meditation, or at least that's what some people probably use it for.

44:07 And he said, now you meditate, you reflect, or at least maybe that's what you do, maybe you don't, I don't know, Maybe you try to think about nothing and you find this Dead Space, which I don't think is really possible. That's let's get real. Yeah.

44:20 But to me it's, you know, it's like a like exercise. Like, you know, you go to the gym, you work out your body, you try to make your body feel a little bit healthier. It's like, OK, what about your emotional, call it body, your emotional state of being, How do you exercise that?

44:35 Well, you got to give it a little bit of you got to show up to the gym. So you got to, like you know, like you said, create the environment if you need to, set up all the parameters, lock the door and sends candles, whatever it is. If that's the way you go or actually put yourself and get APT trainer or possibly someone to talk to to actually do some of the work, exercise your emotional self. And if you know, I think the world generally there was, there was a there's a big push for the

45:01 fitness industry like several decades ago where it's like you know exercising was like OK, but then like Arnold Schwarzenegger and like all this stuff and now there's like Jim Pop. They're everywhere now. Right now, it's not even a thing anymore. And like, if you're 20 years old listening to this, like. Gyms weren't always around, you know, like 30 years ago there was, they were very scarcity in between. So that became a very popular thing that now is a norm. It's like, yeah, you should work

45:25 out, you should exercise. You should do yoga, which, you know, most of us probably do. Who is listening to this, right. But then the meditation thing comes in is now that's starting to become more of like, yeah, everybody should meditate.

45:36 And even though meditate is kind of part of this whole thing and we're kind of, we're kind of going in a slightly different direction where it's like. Well, just like emotional awareness type of work. So now I'm thinking about like, OK, like how like what kind of things can we help practically to take away from this conversation for people to be like, OK, so this is all great. I'm, I'm, I'm convinced.

45:56 Thanks guys. But like, what can I do next? Or like, what should I think about? Or yeah, like, I just got a lot to unpack and I don't know really know where where to go or what to start with. Yeah, I really love that you brought up meditation because that was actually the place where I felt my emotional body.

46:13 I remember sitting for the first time when I was 17 and suddenly just the first two months and I didn't know anything about it. Like I could just feel I was crying and I didn't even know where the tears came from. And so going back to to privilege just to kind of wrap that up.

46:29 It it is something where you know, it's free, you know, And I would be like going to these like little office rooms and places like I was living in a dorm, you know, where I could just go and and quietly at like 5:30 in the morning before class go and sit for 20 minutes and then go to free meditation groups, right. So if we go back to like that accessibility. But in terms of a real practical one, what I recommend and what I've done and I, I will say that

46:59 it's helpful to also work with people, a group or a teacher and also have your own practice. And I'm sure you've noticed this, Michael, where there's a really big difference in a yoga student where if they only go to trainings and classes but they don't have their own practice, it's not going to be integrated.

47:15 You know, there isn't that depth. And then if there's someone who only has their practice, while there's going to be a lot of depth, they don't have that outside eye. They can like take them in different places, you know, and just we're fine.

47:27 So you need both, but in terms of, you know, because we do need that self practice, what can be really helpful is when the emotion is live. So when you're feeling anger, sadness, you know something that's really strong, probably something that you're not in the mood to feel.

47:45 What I often do is I'll go in a different room because it's easier for me to focus than I'm. If I'm around people and immediately notice, where do I feel this in my body, Right. So there's like certain organs, and we'll all kind of have our little classic ones. But let's just say that generally it will be like, your solar plexus tends to be a very emotional one, right. So it might be in your stomach and your liver, right in the center of solar plexus, could be

48:11 intestines for women, could be in the womb, can be in your heart, can be in your throat. Just looking at like that, that central channel of like chakras, you know, essentially like two to two to five and and then it's like really just getting real where you take out the word anger and you, you put your hand there to make a connection. I like sensation because it means I'm, I'm actually feeling it.

48:38 But you might get images and there might be colors, right? So depending on how you're wired, you know, you might have the other senses turning on as well. But usually it's going to be visual or textural or both and then allowing it. So as you said, don't judge.

48:54 Like, OK, I don't know where it's going to go. I don't know what it's going to turn into. I'm going to just be with it. And so you just kind of wait and watch and see like how is it starting to move? And it's going to be a practice. Your your mind will jump in a billion times and try to put a story to it.

49:11 You know, judge it, like trying to move it somewhere. And you just humor that and then you come back. OK, OK, let's just be there. Maybe you breathe with it, but you don't try to change it. It's like you're giving it space. There might be huge insights.

49:26 It might just be very somatic, meaning, like in the body, it's just moving. And and depending again on your tolerance level, maybe it's 5 minutes, maybe it's longer, You know, you want to make sure it doesn't become too much.

49:40 And then you just ride that wave and and see where it goes that that's that's kind of what comes to me when you say like how to actually do this. So what does that look like for someone? Like, like practically setting. So like, they like, how do they start that process, right?

49:59 Like, that sounds like a thing that they might experience, but like, they might be like sitting in a room trying to meditate, being, like working, right, Right, right, right. So. So going back to even like your description of being, you know, like when you first started training and how like you're like the first six months you're like, I don't feel anything, Can we just let that be a place that exists in everything we're doing, You know, So there will

50:23 be a difference between I have a live emotion. Like, I know one time I was teaching and I felt so angry and I wasn't going to express my anger like on my student. I was like, I got to, I got to figure this one out, you know?

50:34 So I extricated myself from the situation, put myself in a different room. So when you're feeling it live, that will be where it's going to be, both more uncomfortable but easier to access. Whereas if you're like, I need to feel some emotions that would always be putting an expectation and pressure. And so it's like like when I would sit and meditate and emotions would come up.

51:00 I might have been sitting already for 45 minutes, you know, and and and it surprised me that it was what was coming. Or like it comes up in a yoga class. So, you know, let's say that there's going to be the surprise emotions of I've been cultivating enough time and space and then something happens.

51:17 So that's where a regular practice of being with oneself, of connecting to your interior, is so important. And we've been talking more static. But that's where like like when I play the piano, you know, that's suddenly like I'm, I'll start to feel my emotions and you know, if I'm dancing or you know, like you can also do it through motion. So it's it's acknowledging that you can have a practice that helps you contact emotion that's both movement oriented but not controlled.

51:46 When I'm playing the piano and composing, you know, I'm not like, you know, playing whatever is in front of me. And when I'm dancing, it's not. When I'm learning dance steps, it's like I'm feeling the music. So something that gives you a focal point that gets you out of thinking mind and drops you back into either your body or like your artist's mind, you know, that artistic part of yourself. So, you know, if you want to have a regular practice, you, you got to experiment, you know.

52:11 And it could be, yeah, I I sit for 20 minutes a day, you know, or I'm, I'm doing some sort of moving meditation. You know, what helps you bring you access to you. So there's going to be the importance of a cultivated practice that you have no expectation that maybe nothing will come out of it, you know, which, you know, is so important as a human to to let ourselves be unproductive.

52:35 And then there's like the other side though of, OK, I've got a live emotion right now and can I go put myself in a room? I can stand, I can lay down, I can sit. It's got to be comfortable and I'm just going to notice where in my body am I feeling it Put my hand there, maybe I start to breathe into it and maybe I set a timer.

52:55 What for me, I'm highly impatient. 5 minutes, right? 5 minutes. Like if I can give it 5 minutes and just let's see where it goes. Usually helps it discharge and soften a little bit and then I'm like either coaxed a little bit into staying a little bit more where I can find out really where it's coming from.

53:15 So again, it's a practice. Sometimes it's just the practice of, because I know, especially when we're beginning, am I used to orienting towards this part of myself. We've been taught to Orient outward. We've been taught to cultivate ourselves, to have strategies and get what we want in this world.

53:34 So to actually be real and kind of let the wildness of self really emerge and with all the colors, every single color possible, like that's very different. And so just even saying, hey, I'm going to start to allow this to matter as well, it's also important.

53:52 That's great. That was really helpful. I think. I mean, it was for me. So, you know, I'm one of many people probably that exists in a similar way. And it made me think of another strategy that my partner Christina does. She does it every day. And you can call it yeah, it's a meditation practice, but she just reflects on her day.

54:09 She does a she, she, she joined this like little program and they're kind of supporting this whole little thing where she basically at the end of the day she just reflects like what bothered me today or like what was difficult today or what was stressful or you know starts to like bring awareness to like certain moments and then she'll either write them down or she'll just sit with them. So it's kind of like what you said, you need a focal point. You need something you don't

54:30 need to but like that helps to give your, you know your send your your, your state of being a direction or a location to kind of look. So if you're not just doing a regular practice and you're just kind of allowing things to come up after, you know, 3045 minute sessions, yeah, having a focal point. And I'm sure everybody, every single day has something that comes up.

54:50 You know, you're we're not waking up and going to bed with no, what do you call it? It's not samskaras would be tapas, basically like something bothering the crap out of you, right? Something stressing you out. And it doesn't even have to be big stresses.

55:03 It could be little stresses, right, And what we're really good at doing. Is kind of rubbing it off, throwing it off the side, you know, this isn't important or coping or distracting or or you know, avoiding or something like that. So I think the practice that she does is to, you know, whatever she had to do throughout the day to to get through the day. Great.

55:24 But then now it's like I have the time to sit with that, I think and OK, what happened, right. So maybe that could be something that's helpful for people as well. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's again, you're right. And I think it's in, in some ways, it's just a matter of we won't have time to drop in every single moment, You know, Sometimes it's like, Oh my God, I got to show up to work. I got to show up for this person I'm driving right now, and it actually wouldn't be

55:52 appropriate. And. And yet there's a very big difference between like bypassing, shoving away coping versus like, but I am going to get to you, you know. And so it's like, how do we make that sacred space, you know? And the end of the day is great because it's like there's always so much there and and then you can really like allow yourself to like drop in and and feel.

56:13 Yeah, and if you're if you're loving this episode, we're going to wrap it up soon. It's. It's getting about that times my thing that I do and I get excited about it because whenever things come up, I write it in my, well, I put in my phone.

56:26 I have a little notepad that literally says, you know, like my work or, you know, therapy work. And I just write things like, this happened and this is how I felt or I noticed this and this is how I felt. And then I just have a bullet, a whole bunch of bullet points, right. And then, you know, I'll bring them up to my therapist. So these are talking points.

56:43 And she loves it. She's like, great, we have somewhere to start. Let's let's focus on that. Which actually makes my therapy sessions extremely efficient. But also I start to notice patterns. I'm like, oh, that bullet points related to that one that's related to that one. And it's like, oh, now I see.

56:59 It's like all of these, like little moments of suffering are all related to this one thing. So now my focal point has gotten even more focused. Yeah. So anyway this is something that I do that I've, you know over time I've learned and realized how this has really been helpful. So hopefully that will.

57:15 I think that's brilliant because most people, although it sounds simple, it's a very important exercise because most people are very disconnected from I don't know why I'm I'm feeling this way you know, and I love too that it's not about like every single line has like a different story to it that then you can start to track the patterns, you know because there's basically like you know three to four like belief systems or core wounds.

57:39 It's like really driving us. And so that just gives that deeper awareness so that it is going back to how do we reduce the suffering. It's a lot softer when this stuff comes up and it's like, oh right, it's just that thing.

57:53 Yeah, it's a thing. Again, Can I work on it myself? You know, maybe I do actually need to go see somebody talk about that. So yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And I I will say as as I guess my final point is I do like that we're talking about this with humor because it's it's we can think of this work as so heavy so serious and you know having that lightness and play and and actually humor is healing and and and not about humor where you're bypassing or making light or like you know being kind of

58:23 mean. But there is just like a way of working with our emotions and having a humor about ourselves, which is is so essential. Not taking things too seriously if we don't have to. There are serious moments, of course, yeah. Cool.

58:38 Well, this was fun. And that was a fast hour. Oh my God. Just like that, yeah. That's why I like having having you on the show. We just we just go and it's great. You know, I had a good time. Hopefully the listeners did as well. I'm sure they did.

58:51 Thank you so much for taking the time to come and join. I don't know if there's any other final thoughts. I feel like we covered so many things that I don't even know where to go anymore. I have no more notes. I got nothing else written down. So I feel pretty good.

59:05 And then we'll put. Your, you know, your information in the show notes, so you don't have to list that off. But do you have anything coming up maybe in 2024 that you'd like to tell people about? I I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll confess that I actually messaged Cat, I don't know, a month or so ago and I was like, when's your next training?

59:21 I think I kind of want to like fine tune some of this energy work stuff. So you know, I'm looking for that. So yeah, maybe. What do you got? Well, I'm secretly brewing many things, so I will have an energy training in person in Bali and the dates are TBA but it'll be after April.

59:39 So I'm going to Argentina for fun in December and and then I've got some like Europe tour, Dubai. This is the first time where I don't have things locked down. So stay in touch because I will be all over Europe or in a few places. And then yes, I will have my energy training in Bali after May and then I've got a few other things that are cooking, so.

1:00:03 Yeah, but for December, I'm going to be in Argentina. Cool Argentina and or other places. So yeah, we'll put your How do people follow you? Do you like yeah, I've got like where? Yeah, like it. I I always let people know like where I am in the world and I do a lot of pop up stuff and yeah, I know, so yeah. I'll add that in perfect.

1:00:21 Well, I'm excited. Yeah, for everything, anytime I talk to you, I'm excited and and wait and you're going to come back into our other training as well, right? For the next expressions in April. Yeah, so awesome, really excited about that.

1:00:34 Cool. Thank you so much. I appreciate you and thank you to everyone that's been listening and lending us your ear for the last 59 minutes and 35 seconds. Hope you have a beautiful day and we will speak to you next week. Take care. All right, before you go, let me just tell you about the going proyoga.com platform.

1:00:58 So right now you can go to goingproyoga.com and check it out for free for seven days where you can actually learn more about yoga in the ways of alignment, queuing, sequencing, yoga, anatomy. So that if you've done a 200 hour teacher training and you want to continue to learn, practice and grow, this platform is definitely for you.

1:01:14 So I definitely suggest checking it out going proyoga.com right now. You can try it out for free for seven days.