Yoga Business Advice for New Teachers with Amy MacDonald

0:00 The mistake that yoga teachers can make is that they think that it's only then and it's a competitive environment and I just don't believe that to be true. Welcome to the going pro. Yoga podcast, Namaste. My name is Paul. Chiodo joined here with Michael Henry. Most yoga teacher, trainings are becoming watered-down and mediocre.

0:23 So we've created this podcast to help supplement those of you who graduated from a teacher training and Don't feel confident going out into the real world. Michael. And I are lucky to have been trained by some amazing people. We've gone out into the world ourselves and had success and we want you to feel confident to protect your students and to build your career with integrity and authenticity, Welcome to our podcast.

0:49 What's up? Everybody? Welcome to the going pro yoga podcast. My name is Michael Henry, and I am your host for today. Thank you so much for joining us. And today, we have a special guest. Just who has joined us on this podcast.

1:03 Amy Macdonald. Amy. Macdonald is a yoga student teacher in business coach. She supports yoga teachers, like many of you listening to this podcast right now to grow an abundant yoga business with one-on-one coaching online training, programs workshops Retreats, and so on, Amy is also the host of her own podcast called the Abundant yoga teachers podcast, which offers about 45 minute yoga Biz trainings every single week.

1:30 So I'm very excited to have a me here, joining us. And without further Ado, Amy, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. It's, it's like getting a little trip overseas. Yeah, right. Little bit of little bit of variety and little bit of variety. So Amy first question that I want to ask you is basically just the kind of introduce you to our audience, so they can get a little bit familiar with who you are. Maybe some do, maybe some.

1:55 Don't besides that little intro that I gave. I would love to hear all. For myself, what was your first introduction to yoga? So kind of bringing us back to the beginning for you. How did yoga kind of first start into your life? My first experience of yoga was going to yoga classes as a kid. I did kids yoga from about 8 years old. So I guess looking back on that.

2:20 It was probably of a kids sort of shivananda kind of style back in the 80s and As I'm told by my parents, I was sent to yoga for anxiety management. So while I might have been early to get going, I don't think my reason to get going was an anomaly. So yeah, I've been I've been jogging for a while. Wow, the ETS?

2:45 No kidding. So, how will? How old are you like exactly when you first, you said, you were a kid. Eight years old. Yeah. Wow. So we're your parents Yogi's or into that or like know I my parents were so Australian middle. Us any. But my best friend, her parent, one of her parents was a bit of a hippie and she was already going and so, fortunately, I had it.

3:09 I had had a contact to get me in because there's no way my parents would have. I think the closest thing, my family came to like new age or a spirituality was, I would go sometimes to mass with my Catholic neighbors, so that I could get an ice cream at the end and my mother also had a Ouija board, but that's it. Okay, okay.

3:29 Wow, that's good. That's guy like. Okay, cool. So Ouija board. I haven't heard that in a long time. That's hilarious the right. Okay, that's really interesting. Actually because I always think about yoga for children or for younger people and how that kind of lands on them.

3:47 I feel like lately. I've seen some things on Instagram and stuff like that, where you know, there's yoga teachers trying to incorporate their nieces and nephews and stuff like that into just the practice. And and I always wondered to myself like, how does it actually land? For them, is it something that they're doing just to kind of model the person that they you know, they look up to or is it something that they're seeing and experiencing benefit from? So from your perspective being,

4:11 you know, eight years old and kind of starting into that. What was it doing for you? What kind of like made you decide like? Oh, this is kind of fun. Like I want to do more of this. Well, I think I had this sort of family that you just got told what you did and that's what you did, which is what I got sent to Jazz ballet classes, which was a dumpster fire. But I do remember, it was playful. I remember we did all of the animal shapes. And then I also remember,

4:36 there's always Yoga Nidra and there was these big heavy Woolen orange, Woolen blankets, and I love that part, you know, it was interesting because the teacher was a man, and his daughter would be there as well. And I just think, you know, I'm always about God, how can we get more men teaching yoga men, practicing yoga, but, you know, that's it.

4:56 These days. It's an interesting phenomenon to take your kids to a class. A man's house and leave him, leave them there and I was how lucky for me that I had such a great experience, but it's funny because thinking back the other thing that I recall from those classes is there was this poster pinned up on the wall, and I guess it's above an altar.

5:16 Like I said, I didn't know any of that sort of stuff as a kid because it wasn't part of our family. And in hindsight. I know now that it was a poster of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Wow. Okay, right. Like such a strange collection of things.

5:29 But, well, I remember about it was, it was, it was fun? It was playful. And they may get to have a rest at the end. Really? Okay. So yeah, so you got a lot of the, the obvious benefits that us as adults. Also love exactly. Yeah.

5:43 Yeah, that's really cool. And, um, actually mention something that I want to bring up later. Just I'm going to take a mental note in case I forget, but just talking about incorporating yoga more for men. Something that we like to talk a little bit more about but before you jump into that, I guess my next question would be so.

5:59 Okay, so You basically got exposed to it as at a young age and then, you know, continued on with the life. What were you doing before you, you know, became a yogi or a yoga teacher or a business coach? Like, is there a kind of a bit of a story of something different? Maybe like, like a different life that you kind of were living before?

6:18 Well, I mean, I didn't, I was going to a lot of yoga classes. When I was walking working, a corporate job. I was working in the CBD and Melbourne. So it, you know, real lunch break, I could get to a different Studio practice with Someone and taking taking a lot of classes and then I had essentially, my Eat Pray Love moment where my life blew up. And so, what was the most obvious thing to do? Well?

6:42 Step one go to India, step to sign up for it. 200, our yoga teacher training, and I was classic in the sense that I took that training because I loved yoga love going to classes and just wanted to know more and had no intention at that time of becoming a teacher and yet, Return from that training and started teaching classes. And I think that's a really common pathway people. Particularly people who have started out in another career and are changing directions.

7:12 I know a lot of my clients report, that same kind of story. I didn't ever intend to teach classes and yet, here I am. I'm no longer an accountant or a teacher or whatever else they were doing. They just do yoga air quotes full-time, so, I continued to work a corporate job and I taught, you know before Work after work on the weekends, my corporate job continue to toxify.

7:34 So teaching yoga was a beautiful reprieve from that and I was working as a well-being coach at the time and just not really as well and not really finding my groove there. And I was at a conference in Italy with some friends and we had the day off and we'll just all chatting over lunch and they said, you know what, Amy you you should put all of this together and make it a business, your disparate.

8:00 Skills, actually make sense for this particular group of people. And and so and so that's what I did in 2015. I quit my corporate job. And I and now this is all I do and I love it. Wow. Okay, so let me bring you back a little bit.

8:14 What was it? Your corporate job. Was it in accounting? You mentioned that word? I wasn't sure why I came up. I was like an environmental Advocate person or so, I guess I had a bit of compassion fatigue in that space, you know being like going to rallies since I think my first Environment rally was when I was like 12 and, you know, people talking about climate change for 30 years.

8:38 It just kind of breaks you down when people still aren't changing needed to think about. Okay. I also need to like, how can I use my energy? What, how can I be more influential in helping people because this is not getting me very far.

8:53 So, I was working in a government level, overseeing a whole bunch of different. Services, which were quite complex and diverse. And essentially, I just had a shit of a boss. That was kind of what you did in the end. So thankfully I had a shoot of a boss. Otherwise, I might still be there. Mmm, okay, and Those skills though that experience and stuff like that.

9:19 Did you enjoy doing that? Was that? Like because I mean I hear what you're saying with regards to like, it feels like you're you're trying to drag people through the mud to be like, yeah, like this is important. This is important. And it's just like not a lot of changes happening. So did you feel like you kind of? I don't know.

9:34 Not we're wasting your time, but it was just, it wasn't fulfilling enough for wasn't providing you with enough of a quote-unquote reward for your work and efforts. Not so much because I always Had other outlets. Like, I've always had my own business in some form or another but I suspect as happens in corporate life.

9:54 You know, when you start out your at the coalface, you're doing projects, you're interacting with people, you're looking to make change. But as you move up sort of through the management hierarchy, you get further and further away from right the ground level got in for, you know, becomes more about managing people and overseeing budgets, and I think that's just the nature of career progression and, and In terms of what I do now that the project management

10:19 skills, which sounds so unsexy but actually makes such a difference that I got from that career. Where are fantastic. Now, I was just a bit too removed from feeling like I was, I don't know, being useful in, not in it. I mean, I was useful as a manager, but I don't know if I was useful necessarily in that in the area and in the important work that got me into that space in the first place. Right, right.

10:47 Okay, and you probably wanted more after that. You're like, you know what, I think there's something more for me, something more for me that and also the fact that sorry, but working 9:00 to 5:00 for someone else where you just getting paid for how long you sit on a chair is so stupid.

11:05 Yeah. Yeah, that's probably why a lot of people become yoga teachers because there's like, you know, I don't want to do that anymore. And yoga is great. Let's just see how this goes. Yeah, goes great. Cool. Alright. Well, thank you for that. That overall picture that helps to give me a good little background because I'm definitely curious to see how that kind of, because that kind of work is obviously really important and interesting and I see people getting into that now and it's just it's great to see

11:31 that, you know, over the years, what kind of happens and like you were saying that disconnect from the, what's happening at the ground level. As you progress through work, probably happens to a lot of people, my partner, Christina actually, as well does the same thing?

11:44 Well, not the same thing. She works for Tenant Foundation organization, and she's behind the computer a lot. Yeah. She's answering a lot of emails and like what they do is, they provide emotional intelligence to teachers and students or sorry.

11:57 Yeah. Students and teachers all over the world, which is a fantastic organization, but when you're standing behind a computer and you're doing emails and all the stuff, it's kind of like, what am I doing? Yeah, right. You kind of get disconnected from that. So I can I'm sure there's lots of people that can relate to that at some point.

12:12 So, okay, so I'm curious a little bit about Teacher training itself in India. How was that talking about other teachers, who actually take teacher trainings? And don't always have the greatest experience and then thinking about going to places like Bali or doing it in like San Diego or Australia, then, the option of always being like, yeah. Well, India's, like the epicenter, so, what would that be?

12:33 Like? Well, actually, I didn't do my teacher training in India. I did it in Thailand in Chiang Rai and which was all just Serendipity. I was at a loose end. And my dad lives in Thailand, I was staying with him. I was at a bit of a loose end.

12:50 So, I went on my first ever. I think this is 2008. My first-ever yoga retreat, the teacher was really motivating. She had postcards at the end old school and she handed out saying, come to my yoga teacher training in six months time.

13:05 And so, I went back to Thailand in 2009 and did a like 40 days, 200 hours, and 40 days, which was one of the most difficult. Could things I've ever done in my life. It was kind of like yoga teacher training, Survivor. People just kept getting chucked out.

13:23 I mean, I think only two people got evicted but it was so intense him. So intense they got like kicked out like this. Let's put it out of the training. Yep. I got voted out of the training it was grueling and and I think I have a really lucky story here Michael because I didn't know it, but the training In that I signed up for, it was amazing.

13:48 And some of the people, some of the faculty, I still study with. And I really lucked out, I had no idea. I mean, it was I think back then. It was like 8 Grand, you know, that long ago. So it was, it was a big investment.

14:04 Wow, but I just got great tuition. I mean, I still sucked at the end because, you know, 200 our qualifier still. So I've been taught much But G the my trainers were great. So I didn't have that experience of thinking, hang on. What about this?

14:21 And what about that? Now? Obviously, I went on to take a bunch and continue to take loads more trainings because there's only so much that you can fit into a 200, our container, but I didn't have the horror story experience that I've heard from so many teachers, right, right.

14:37 Yeah. Well, that's good. I can, I can reciprocate the same having done a really my teacher training. I mean, not to go too much into my Because this is more about you. But yeah, I've I did a lot of research before I did my teacher training and learned and this is why I kind of got into the space is because I wanted to support. You can teachers with my background and skill set as a physiotherapist injury prevention, safety, and all that stuff, alignment queuing and

15:04 When I started to do that, research and chatting with an abundant of yoga, teachers from all over the world, from places people that I had met who have come to Bali and then kind of went back home. And you know, we stayed in contact, I would just kind of reach out to them and ask what was your experience? How was your teacher training?

15:20 You know, basically a lot of the questions I'm asking you now and the overall consensus wasn't very good. It was it was like, you know, I just it was it was it was transformational in a lot of ways and I built a lot of amazing friendships and Listen ships and stuff like that.

15:34 But from the yoga teaching perspective. I don't feel ready or I you know, I feel like I might have got gypped or it was a lot of information to absorb and to integrate in a short amount of time. So lots of different scenarios where I was just like.

15:49 Yeah, it was it wasn't really a foolproof system for a lot of people. So hearing you say like you were a fortunate one and then for myself I also felt the same because I eventually did my training with Paul and Byron who are now my partners and going through there.

16:03 Our training with the the the preface of thinking like, oh, this is going to be like every other training after interviewing all these Yogi's and then realizing this wasn't the same at all. I without having that context.

16:16 I was like, I think this is different and that's kind of why I kind of jumped on board with working with these guys because I was like, I want you guys to do more of this or like I want this to be more available to to these teachers.

16:26 So that, you know, there isn't these a nominally anomaly, teacher trainings and can be a more consistent across the board. If You can make that a reality. So it's interesting that you said that it's such an aspirational goal. But one that lights me up so much. I mean I would have been a horror show at the I didn't know that there was such a thing as yoga clothing. When I got there.

16:48 I'd like you should, you should have seen this shit that I brought in my bag and they were talking about this guy called mister. I ain't going like who they have no idea who that like. I had zero idea about any of it. All I knew was that I went to yoga classes a few times a week.

17:02 So I think it's even think Ink about. It must be incredibly difficult to teach. I've only ever guessed, talk portions that yoga teacher training is I've ever taught my own thing in full. But what I see is like, so many yoga yoga teacher trainers are like, I just need to get the numbers.

17:16 I'll take, not, it'll take whomever, but there's no sort of prerequisites. Really. In fact, I think that's increasingly. So you hit. I've heard stories of, I've done yoga for six months. And now I'm a yoga teacher and in six months time. I'm going to start teaching you.

17:33 Take two trainings and I just think, yeah, it's going on, but I do think there's a real great idea in an intake for a teacher training. So it's a big ask to get the teacher trainer. To get everybody to the same level by the end of 2:00. Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot of leaks and holes and the overall system because it's not necessarily a corporate thing. There's a lot more of that flowy intuitive allowing for, for room of creativity, and each teacher

18:02 to kind of do their own thing in their own style and not pigeonholing them, which is great. I'm at the same time. Yeah. It just it doesn't kind of have a consistency of overall delivery, I think. But yeah. I think I think people are doing their best with what they got.

18:17 And it's not so much about us trying to step on that as opposed to, how can we help to improve the overall quality? And I think the important thing for for us and I want to come back to you a little bit, but just to kind of clean this up, the important thing for us is just to make sure that for me particular, that people are safe, injuries become less prevalent, but then also that, you know, people actually get to chase their dreams a little bit if someone really wants to be a

18:43 yoga teacher. Sure, but they're just feel, you know, they did their training and then they were, they came off as maybe they had an amazing training but like, they still needed a little bit extra and they came off this high and they're like, you know, I'm just this is what I'm going to do.

18:55 I'm going to quit my job. I'm going to do this and then you know, months ago by three months, six months and all of a sudden that fire just starts to whittle down. It's no longer passion anymore. And then they're like, you know, I don't know if I can do this, that this self-doubt kicks in and their confidence source to lower.

19:09 And there's I don't remember, I don't think I remember how to do this like that, whole, that whole Thing, we're like, you know what, we have a remedy for this and that's kind of what we want to. We want people to be able to chase their dreams and to be able to be yoga teacher and to help support and Heal the World in the way that yoga can can do that. So I thought you just just maybe if I met two points on that, I think the first point is that, it's okay to take a 200 hour ago.

19:36 Okay. That was a, that was a starting point. And now I'm ready for the next thing. Like the, the expectation that one. One would be totally ready after actually, what is a small training? It's unnecessarily high. So we all get to stay Perpetual students, not to say that we need to qualify ourselves into confidence. But but that it's okay.

19:59 If you take a shitty training, you are allowed to take another one. And I think the other part of it is to like, it's okay to be a bit shit at the beginning. It's just a yoga class. For most, we're not some becoming someone spiritual advisor overnight.

20:11 This is when you first I mean, I got cat and cow backwards for six months after I qualified. I sucked sucked like the music that I used to play. All of it was terrible. And now I'm good, but it's been a while and I've taken more trainings and I've got great teachers now.

20:30 And you know, it's for the people who are coming to our classes. They're coming to something that they do on a Wednesday night at 7:00. It's one for most of us. Sure. Then you get more. Earning for people like you. And I we want to pick out. People will travel all over to go to the best of the best. But for most people, it's just a thing that they do on a Wednesday night.

20:51 So it doesn't have to be groundbreaking. It's just you just teaching 60 Minutes of safe Asana and that's it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of people, they just, they just want to work out. Really? Want to get a good stretch it. Yeah, exactly.

21:06 That's or that you, or they don't even realize they're just like, yeah, I don't know what it is about yoga, but I just feel really good afterwards. Yes, you know, what, if they don't Stand it, but they like him to keep coming back and that's great too. And the one thing that I really like that she said is that like, you know, you kind of sucked at the beginning and I think most most yoga teachers suck at the beginning. Well, I think it's so weird.

21:25 When I just first got my license, I wasn't the best driver. What look any other News skill when you start a new job? Your sort of shit for the first six months, but they still employed you at the beginning. Just get better as you go. Yeah, exactly work in progress.

21:41 Yeah. We're all working progress is. I never actually ends. Just like introduced the at the beginning of this podcast, as a student. It's like, we're all still students, no matter how much experience we have. So, okay, cool.

21:51 Let's bring it back. But before we do that, I actually want to ask one side. Question, talking about yoga clothes. I'm curious to know one of your outfits that you might have brought in without knowing what, what was appropriate, quote unquote, where I think I do a lot of yoga and Tai fishing pants.

22:07 I don't, it was the naughties, you know, that's what people wore, but they're actually the high site that there's, at least a Dating for movement pants, you could possibly choose. But yeah, I had numerous pairs of Thai fishing pants.

22:20 That's pretty good. I kind of wish I had a visual of that because I'm not 100% sure what I fishing pants is. But my, my brain is creating an image that's hilarious. So that works out really well. I think, I think you get these in Indonesia, you know, you know, like or the current horrific Trend, which is sort of the like, harem pants.

22:39 That have that block, print elephant, kind of load. And That you know, like young couples that are traveling to Asia. For the first time they buy like matching sets, you know, those sorts of that sort of a tyre was. I was right, right.

22:52 So if you're doing like a lunge or anything, you let them. Yeah. All right. I got the visual complete. Perfect. All right. Thank you for that. Okay, let's bring it back to. Yeah, let's bring it back to you a little bit more. Talked about your teacher training, talk about your history.

23:10 So we've kind of talked about what you're my next question was going to be was about how Develop your craft and build your confidence, which is basically just doing it sounds like and also originally you said you weren't really interested in becoming a yoga teacher.

23:21 You just did the training for yourself. So maybe we can talk a little bit about that. Like how how did you transition or what was it that transition? Do you was it immediately after you've finished your training or was there something that happened at some point where you're like, you know what? I think I'm going to pursue this yoga thing a little bit more know.

23:37 It was immediately after I finished my training. I came home from being away for a while. I moved all of the furniture out of Of my front room called it, a yoga studio bought a pull-up banner and went for it using. I'm so grateful that people came along and then I moved to the country and started renting a space at a studio after that, teaching my colleagues and then also teaching classes at a at a studio here, that that I'm going to be teaching at, again,

24:07 starting next week, which is pretty cool. Great full circle, a little bit. Yeah, so I'm curious. Is because I'm sure a lot of, I mean, I don't know where our entire audience, but I know that there are a lot of newer teachers that listen to this podcast.

24:22 So hearing you talk about, like, you know, you pull that all the shots and you're doing everything you could. Basically, how was that emotionally on? You? Like, was it feeling like, like, is this gonna work? Like, what were some thoughts?

24:35 That might have been going through your head? That could might resonate with some of our audience? Well, I mean, I was terrified and I was terrified. I I remember being, I remember having to put a boat, the mats, and the straps, and some blocks and some blankets on a credit card. I'd never gone into debt before in my life. I think it was, I don't know, $600. I was terrified.

24:58 And I remember my mother saying, you have to crack eggs to make an omelet. Amy, and I was so scared of. What if I never make the money back. I remember being on a bus from my dad's place in rural Thailand, back to Bangkok to fly home.

25:13 It's like a 14 hour bus ride and I dis before things like Squarespace existed weeks. And so I built my website on that took me 14 hours to build a website on my MacBook on whatever was back. Then the software that came with your MacBook and I had I was too scared to have my photo taken or anything like that. So A friend of mine heard 16 year old daughter did a bit of cartooning.

25:38 So she made some stick figures that kind of look like me, but I put on my website. I had some postcards printed with Vistaprint that in looking back and god-awful, which I left at cafes everywhere. I told all my friends and I kind of just hope hope for the best and I read, I can read like viscerally, remember that get the house ready, put the sign ups, put the horrible music on have the class plan and then just sitting there and hoping that someone would show up and

26:09 then, you know, two minutes after the hour I thinking oh God. I hope no one shows up. Because I just want to shut the door and and hide until the hour is over. It was really, really stressful. Yeah. Bit of an emotional roller coaster. I'm sure someone can relate to that one for sure. Feeling of your, you go up the mountain of come on. I hope people arrive and then and then the Tipping Point of, oh God.

26:32 I hope no one arrives. It's a very strange sensation, but I think it's a common one when you when you're first starting out. Yeah. Yeah that anticipation piece. Actually, it's funny chatting with Byron who Who the audience knows fairly?

26:44 Well because he's been on the podcast. He shared with me two days ago. That he went to teach a class here at the Ubud Yoga Center. The scheduling might have been thrown off a little bit. But basically he showed up and he said no one showed up. Okay, and, you know, is it very well experienced. Yoga teacher has been teaching for over 10 years and for him to not burn up for no one to show up. He was just kind of like yeah, that was that was different. That was weird.

27:09 Usually has like 20, 30 people, even during covid. So it was like, that was a, I was a bit of a, like a Okay, so yeah, I can, I can imagine that's a emotionally jaunting kind of just like hits you like. Oh shoot. You do want to close those doors.

27:22 You don't really want to have to deal with, like maybe only one person coming in and then making to deal with that. Yeah. Having to having one person is terrifying because, what if they ask you a question, you can't answer, right? These days.

27:35 And this is something that I tell my clients these days. I don't associate the success or attendance at my business, with my My self-worth, but I did chronically. Then if no one showed up, then somehow it was a reflection on my character, like, might my a meanness and now I just get oh, well, that was a weird day. Let's watch TV or whatever else I fancy doing in the moment, but I think again for newbies that can sometimes be an unnecessary Confluence of self-worth and

28:05 success, and it's important to pull those two apart. Absolutely. I'm so glad that she said that, I think it's very, very important to make that separation. Action, which kind of leads me into the next question. Possibly.

28:18 What do you believe is one of the biggest challenges that new yoga teachers face? Well, well I'm going to come at me. So I guess from the business perspective because that's where my expertise and, you know, lies in far as insofar as having sort of data or experience with folks. And for me.

28:42 It's the one. of the biggest challenges is, Confidence, but not in the teaching its confidence to. I like I like to talk about it's like a coming out process because most of the people in my community have had either, they were stay-at-home parents or they had other careers.

29:01 And now they're kind of coming out as a yoga teacher and that can be really daunting and particularly when there seems to be so much pressure about how yoga teacher should, look how old they should be, how they should conduct themselves, how they should have it all together.

29:18 And what they should eat all of it. And the people that I work with tend to not fall into that narrow range of folks. And so, there's a lot of maybe I'm not, maybe I don't look right or maybe I'll wait until I've just done that little bit more training or who am I to have my photo on the Internet or surely?

29:37 No one's interested in what I have to say on social media. So it's the confidence to put themselves out there that I see is one of the biggest barriers and and it's not Until we understand that when we do be visible. Exactly. As we are, that's where we find the perfect students and that's when our businesses really take off because you know, there's none of us can be replicated.

30:03 And if so, if we just do we try and be someone else we get into trouble, but if we simply be ourselves, then we become magnetic to the types of students that we really want to teach. Okay, and follow-up to that. What do you what do most teachers?

30:18 Maybe need to know or understand from a business perspective. What do you say that, you know, putting themselves out there is part of that? Or is there something deeper than that or is that basically this the training wheels, like just just go for it and just learn from the experience, learn how to do it. As you go.

30:34 Definitely. I'm a fan of treat things like a playful experiment rather than a high-stakes gamble, but I think that the if I could, if I could boil it all down. Something that I come back to certainly in my own business and what I reiterate with my clients is that if you can accept and embrace your business as part of your yoga, then, everything changes because I know for me, I mean, I'm a bit of a historically, I've been a bit of a personal development, you

31:08 know, consumer and read all the books and been to seminars and done all of that stuff. But I tell you, it was all the therapy and whatnot that I've done over over Mike. Life deciding to start this business and backing myself and dealing with conflict resolution and my own insecurities.

31:25 And all of it has been so much more transformative. And I would say, probably at this point, even it's been more transformative than anything that I've done on my sticky mat. So when we decide that actually, I get to, I get to, this is my Arthur. I'm this is my karma.

31:41 I'm going to lose my Spidey. I'm going to learn about myself here. I'm going to understand that I will be uncomfortable at times and that I can and I have the skills to to be with that. I really think that embracing our businesses as part of our practice takes away resentment.

32:01 It takes away. We're more prepared to lean into the possibility of something not working or being hard when we understand the no. No this is this is sudden as well clearing my inbox getting back to people managing someone who's asking me for yet another refund.

32:16 Actually this gets Be part of my side. And there is a yoga practitioner as well as what I do on the cushion and on the sticky, net. Mmm-hmm. It's interesting. When you were sharing all that, the thing that came to me is like not only are, you know, we're becoming yoga cheap or not.

32:32 People are becoming yoga teachers, but part of the process was also becoming an entrepreneur, which is a whole other journey in itself. Yes. So it's your with that to Journey process. There's so many things that come with it, that can be very challenging and daunting like you were saying intimidating, you know, self-deprecating with regards to like failures and or you know what I mean? Failures, I prefer to call the lessons or like stepping. Still, what comes next but it's

32:58 just, it's a difficult journey to be an entrepreneur. Let alone a new yoga teacher and combining those two together makes for a tough makes, makes it a little bit tough. Right? Yes, and if we come back to something, you said earlier to my way of thinking, I mean, for the most part until I met my current who I would call my current teacher, you as a teacher.

33:19 I was sort of coming at yoga through it and you Sarah kind of prism and so well. I got alignment. It was very much based on a formula that John friend created, which kept people safe to a degree, but it didn't, it wasn't flexible enough for me to really be able to modify and adjust for you. No particular requirements of my students. All of this to say that.

33:44 I think that you could fill up a 200, our yoga teacher training, just with Anatomy physiology, and people would almost have enough to keep people safe. If you taught them nothing else. And of course, you have to teach them all this other stuff.

33:57 They've got to know about the freaking bloody patanjali, which is a whole other story. Like there's all this other stuff that they have to get. So why on Earth would they be competent to run a business? Just because maybe they got 10 hours of business chat along the way.

34:10 I mean, it's ridiculous. So I think And understanding that. Exactly. You're right. Like, yes. No, you're a yoga teacher. Which means you're also a business owner, but don't worry. If you don't know what you're doing. You haven't been taught yet and that's okay. Yeah.

34:25 Yeah. And 2:00. The amount of expectations have fallen over teachers is, it's insane, you know, all of a sudden not only are you yoga teacher but you're kind of like a doctor. You're also kind of like an entrepreneur and you're also healer. Yeah.

34:38 Yes stuff, you know what I mean? And then, you know, you did like a one-month experience with some people on you. Some yoga and you learn some things and all of a sudden all these expectations fall on you and you're just like, wait.

34:48 What is that? What? I didn't know. I didn't realize that when I signed up like that, what people see me as though, there's a lot of a lot of in fortunately with the yoga practice itself. The inner work is allows us to kind of recognize that a lot of that is not true in. These expectations are not necessarily even if some of them may be true that some people see us that way. It doesn't necessarily make them true. Of course.

35:12 Yeah. Yeah, so, okay cool. That was really. I really like that kind of Spun there. So maybe we can ask, what are some of the biggest mistakes that yoga teacher is maybe make in their business, maybe earlier on, or later on something that can be learned from, from not neither, not needing to make that mistake. That may be learning from someone else's mistakes that you might have come across.

35:36 Well, here's where I'm hugely qualified because I've made so many mistakes. Okay. All right. I've got like three that I can think of that. I see happen. Commonly one trying to figure it all out ahead of time, trying to figure out what's going to work. And what's not going to work by yourself these days with social media.

35:56 No one needs to figure anything out. First, you get to test all of it. Look for patterns and do what more of what works and abandon what didn't people agonize over. What's my brand colors? How many real should I do per week?

36:09 All of this stuff? Just try different things. Look for patterns. I repeat what was successful and abandon? What didn't all of this, you know, all this all this procrastination because of perfectionism forget about it. Just test stuff and see fail forward, just try something out. It's like the you know, when you're learning to do buck Asana, you fall on your face and he fall on your face and you almost fall on your face and then you hold it for a breath and then after a while, you're

36:36 just hanging out there and using it to transition. I think that's one. Stop worrying about getting it right. The first time just try something look, Happened and replicate. What was successful? I think another thing is something that breaks my heart and I have certainly done.

36:52 This myself is people feeling that they don't they're not quite sure about a particular area so they outsourced it, but they don't know enough about that particular area to know if the person that they're paying money to do, that thing is actually qualified or competent to deliver it.

37:09 So I see this with people getting websites built for obscene amounts of money that They are just template that someone could have drops give give some 15 hours of money and they could have dropped your photos in and dropped your copy in. And there you have it or people paying social media marketing, which is a totally.

37:27 I've given myself this title and now I'm a, but they don't actually know what they're doing or people paying someone else to run their Facebook advertising account, thousands of dollars gone because someone's decided to call themselves an expert.

37:40 So I think I'm not saying that everybody needs to do everything for themselves. I'm a fan of course of Outsourcing to great people but I think it's important to you need to know enough about what you're buying before you buy it.

37:52 It's like going to buy a car. You need to know a little bit so that you know, which one to pick and so Outsourcing of services. Particularly, when it comes to things like Facebook ads, social media branding, all of this sort of All of these sorts of skills, that a lot of people particularly around my age, can feel intimidated by. There's a lot of, it seems to me, a lot of a lot of junk in the market.

38:17 And it's, it's an easy way to spend a lot of money with very little outcome and say that. And then, I think the third thing, maybe mistakes that yoga teachers make, is that they feel that they're by themselves. Particularly when, if you live in a place like where I live, there's a number of Studios which essentially run as Where freelances can rent space and teach. So we're all running independent businesses out of the same locations and that can generate

38:45 politics that can generate, you know, that can be bitchiness. There can be in fighting people or she stole my students or all this sort of nonsense and that can lead yoga teachers to feel isolated and it can be particularly over the past 12 months. Very isolating, when all you're doing is turning on your resume to teach to people wherever I think the third thing, the mistake that yoga teachers can make is that they think that it's only then and it's a

39:14 competitive environment and I just don't believe that to be true. I think, I think in encountering the yoga industry as a competitive environment is a choice. And I think there are definitely great supportive spaces, Like Yours Like Mine.

39:29 Where people can feel a part of something, where they can ask, what they might think. Might be a silly question, but get a great answer. So and where people will cheer you on rather than try and tear you down. Right? Wow.

39:43 Those are, those are really. Did you have these prepped. Those are pretty good responses there. I was on the debate team. Yeah. Almost like it's almost like I sent you the questions before or something, but I didn't I didn't actually because I didn't get him. Okay.

40:00 So basically what I heard was and I'm going to probably going to butcher the summary, but just to kind of bring it back together. It's like it doesn't need to be perfect. I'll start, in fact, I think Perfection. I mean, let's presume that it's even attainable. For the point of this argument is so unwelcoming. Hmm.

40:18 Who wants to are we just looking for for resonance? I remember someone saying to me, I was about to teach a workshop and we're waiting outside to be let in and one of the participants came up to me and she says, you know what?

40:31 I find it. So reassuring that you've got a bit of a belly because I just know that you're the right direction for me. Thinking. Okay. This is where you get to call in the gray, say me and say thank you imperfect is what people are attracted to. Yeah, because we all are in perfect, even though, you know, media makes us feel like we're, we need to be perfect. It's like, what does that even mean? So, that's great.

41:01 And then that the second one was qualified Outsourcing and how a lot. Of them fall into the Trap of. I mean, I was I did this for other businesses. Is other businesses as well. Not necessarily do what I'm doing now. But, yeah, just hiring people and not recognizing that. I'm spending money in ways.

41:19 That is not getting me what I wanted. So, eventually learning, and what I heard was learning a little bit about it before you do that. So, not that you micromanage, but you kind of dip your toes in enough, that you're not just kind of paying people blindly to do something, and then feeling disappointed, and kind of Afterwards or shamed. That's what the one that I see.

41:40 Most people are really ashamed. Oh my goodness. I spent two thousand dollars to pay. This lady to run my Facebook ads, and no one came to anything. And that they're embarrassed. They feel like they feel foolish. That's if we can avoid that. It's, we should.

41:53 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then the last one was a sense of feeling alone in in or feeling like they're they're by themselves and that there isn't a massive yoga Community all over the world that Can connect and relate to basically most yoga teachers, and then this competitive market piece. I thought was really interesting because Yeah, I mean sure there's lots of yoga teachers, you go on Instagram. You you know, they're all over the place. If you got the right feed

42:21 algorithm. You got yoga people, popping things up left, right and center. The reality is there's a lot of people in the world that don't know what yoga is practice yoga, but need it, right. So there's room for all of us, there's room for all of the yoga teachers that exist. There's room for more yoga teachers, which is why I write it's an abundant space for us to be able to deliver services and help change people's lives.

42:44 So, So, there's other people that fall in that same category. So having communities having people to chat with, you know, making friends in your teacher training or just making new friends who did a training elsewhere. And there's a lot to connect with because we all have a very similar thing in common when it comes to Just Being Human.

43:00 Let alone doing a teacher training and understanding yoga, more in-depth lie. So three great points, love it. Hopefully that digest well for audience, cool. That was really helpful. And there's one more question that I want to ask for my last. So taking that two more questions, just to kind of keep this within our time frame and that question could brings me back to the trying to get men back and more men in yoga. So, this is, this is a little offshoot of where we were kind of going with this whole thing,

43:29 but it's something that Byron Paula and I really are interested in because we're all men and we, when we do trainings that's predominantly like 80% women. So, when we do get a man that signs up for like, yes, like this is so exciting. Like finally, you know what I mean, so, I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are with regards to that because when you said that I was just like cool.

43:48 We have something in common that we both believe. Why does that come up for you that we want to? We want to get more men in yoga. Well, I mean, I sold my first with the when I did my first 2:00. That was The Faculty, was all women, except I had the very good fortune of meeting for the first time Carlos Pineda.

44:07 So largely female faculty and then as I pursued my Auntie, Sarah trainings, that was all. That was all women. And then I remember no amazi was coming to Melbourne and some of my homework for my 2:00 was you got to go to as many things as you can and you've got a practice widely, and you've got to log it all, and whatever. And I thought, oh God, I don't know about this guy. Don't I had this whole thing about how am I going to lose? He's this guy looks like really

44:36 intense and I don't know. So anyway, I went to the thing and obviously, he's exceptional. And I continued to study with him. That's where I did my 3:00 and And he's just a great teacher. So I recognized that I had all of this stuff about, who do I want to study with?

44:52 And I had this story in my mind that I could never learn from a guy, but actually my teachers are all men now and I and I just think that I just think that there's a lot of misconceptions certainly in Australia about what yoga is and who it's for and, and who you have to be in order to be a yoga practitioner, which is nonsense. And I mean, I've got, I've had over the time mail client some who specialize in men's yogurt yoga from it, and I really think that's powerful work because

45:28 there are great Tools in yoga. I taught for a while at a Men's prison. And which was an exceptional learning experience for me. And it also just showed me that that that all people can benefit from yoga. It just because the stereotype seems to be younger white flexible women, you know, there's all these other people who could benefit to and so looking for any group, not in a way that's imposing. But making sure that for any body who wants to come along that.

46:02 It's understood that their wealth. I think is really important and I also because of my body type. I tend to identify more with more sort of masculine encoded, Arsenal forms. For example, like I've got ridiculously tight hips. I'm never going to sit in Lotus my but I'm really good at arm balances and strength stuff because I've got broader shoulders.

46:23 So I when I was doing my teacher training in Indonesia with Noah, most of the women were Indonesian women who are super bendy little and I just I found it quite it hard to relate to them from the arson of perspective, but the guys in the class was like, okay, I can't do that either, my hips don't do that either, but I can do a handstand for ages to like.

46:44 So, I think there's Just in my own experience of yoga. I don't know. I just I guess I just feel cold to make sure that people know that it can be for them to and that you don't have to fit into a stereotype in order to come to a yoga class. Beautiful.

47:01 Beautiful. I'm glad you. You said it that way because it's not just about bringing more men into yoga even though that's kind of how the question started. It's about bringing everyone into it because everyone can be a part of it.

47:11 There's no reason that it needs to be stuck into this. Like, Perspective that it's for young white women. That's the general consensus is. That's what yoga is for. But it's like now or even for able-bodied people. I mean these days, I don't do much ask her anymore.

47:27 I've been practicing yoga for 30-something years. Most of my yoga looks like, how do I conduct myself? Do I adhere to the regulations? And do I conduct myself in a nice way? Do I sit on my cushion? What are the books that I'm reading?

47:40 It doesn't even look like it's not even about. I think we need to be. Really Pro. All abilities in yoga as well. You, you don't even have to even step foot on a sticky mat to practice yoga. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, that's great.

47:55 And thank you for sharing that and I'll just share my peace with regards to. Yeah, the, the men in yoga being a very masculine man, and also, Paul and I are both very masculine men. Also playing sports when we were younger. You know, that kind of lock.

48:13 Her room, we like to call it toxic masculinity. Basically, we, you know, learned beliefs and ways of thinking from previous generations that might not be super Progressive. And you know, yoga helped us to see that those ways are not fluid anymore and it's just not they were never fluid really, but they just they they're not serving the world and not serving us. And what's interesting for me is that Whenever someone like us, who practice yoga and used to

48:48 have a certain way of being talked about yoga, the way that we talk about yoga, and we have these other people, you know, these ex-athletes are these. These toxic masculinity type, people, see us, who look, very manly. And we're practicing yoga. And we know where embodying our feminine qualities. They're kind of like, oh, they get curious about it and then it kind of attracts that so men kind of get attracted from other men.

49:15 Who are you know, how that masculine energy. But even though it's kind of like we have the mask energy, but we're trying to balance it between the feminine and that's part of the reason why we really want, I mean, among other reasons, but we want to incorporate more men is because there's a lot of men who kind of suffer in ways that they don't even realize because they don't want to try things new.

49:36 They don't want to explore what you know, this balance. This this balance of masculine and feminine is the overall toxic masculinity. He can just really consume them and it's like, oh my, I just want to help them and I know that if we can get more men in the space, it'll attract more men and it was just kind of like perpetuate this overall healing, if you will. So that's kind of how I feel about it. Maybe that's a little bit grandiose but it's that's kind of how I perceive it.

50:00 Just having my experience flow in that direction. What's your podcast? I think you're allowed to be as grandiose. Is your wife, you know, I also think that like, there's been some real and obviously, you're far more polite than me. Michael, but there's been some absolute. Shitbird men in yoga that have done horrible things and and they just keep we just keep learning about more of them and God damn it.

50:21 Can we tip the scales back with some awesome people, please? So, you know, like let's not let the men of yoga be remembered as, you know, pattabhi jois and Yogi Bhajan, like there's this big gap where we need great men, more of them in yoga because because I want to just outweigh all of that.

50:43 That that trauma and suffering. Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. Awesome. Okay, cool. Thank you so much for answering all my questions for having some fun with me this morning, and my last last question, especially is for our audience.

50:59 Where would be the best place for them to connect with you to get in, touch with you, to maybe work with you? Or would you like to send them all? Come find me on Instagram? I love getting DM's. My installer is a me. Yoga.

51:11 Biz coach. Just send me a message. For anybody who's like, I don't know, like, send me a voice memo. I love it. That would be. All right, voice. Memos are the way to go. I love this. It will include will include that in the show notes as well, if you don't remember the name, but yeah, awesome.

51:27 Thank you so much Amy for taking the time to speak to me and there are audience and sharing your wisdom and experience and your stories. It's been very enjoyable. I'm glad that we were able to get you on the podcast and possibly maybe we can do it again in the future.

51:40 I feel like you have a lot more to offer a lot more to offer a lot more to talk about. Out. But thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you, everyone for listening. As always. If you have any questions or feedback or questions, you want answered that you want us to kind of break down maybe something for Amy herself to bring her back on. You want her to talk about something in particular or if you have a question that kind of

52:03 percolated after having or after listening to this conversation and you want that question. Answered then please send us a message. Send us an email or a DM on Instagram, all these She's going to be in the show notes, but otherwise, hope you have a beautiful beautiful day and we'll see you next time.