Yoga for Athletes: Building a Niche Business, with Abi Carver

0:00 Hey there, Before we get started on this week's episode, I would love to ask for your support by reviewing this podcast. We want to share yoga with as many people as possible in this free resource. This podcast is one of the ways that we can do that, and the best way that you can help support us is by giving us a review.

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0:35 It may not even be right, but just the fact that somebody is taking the time to to give you some feedback on what you have been doing, I think that's you just you have to see it as a gift. It can't make you close up when you hear it. You have to go, OK, bring it.

0:49 You know, you can close your eyes and tell them to give it to you. But I think that that is how you go. That's how you learn. That's how you not just stuck in a box, just making your own decisions. I think that even though it's the hardest thing to do, being able to accept criticism is like a joy. Basically, this doesn't feel that way in the moment. Welcome to the Going Pro Yoga Podcast. If you love yoga as much as I do, then this podcast is for you.

1:17 We talk all things yoga related for teachers in order to supplement and complement and even support after a 200 hour yoga teacher training. Or if you've never done a training before, this podcast is all about just learning more about yoga in an authentic way. Together with Paul Tioto and Byron De Marseille, we put together this podcast to provide you with a free resource to learn more about yoga.

1:39 Whether you want to share yoga or teach yoga or just practice yoga, this podcast is talking all things yoga related. And we're trying to talk from the teacher's perspective and also the students perspective to make sure we get a full 360 degree angle on what yoga is all about and how it's evolved in the modern world. Welcome to our podcast.

1:56 Welcome back to the Going Pro Yoga Podcast. This is Michael here. And today we have a special guest, Abby Carver. And Abby is a long time yoga teacher, about 10 years and she also did the Elements of Power Yoga teacher training in 2019. So Abby, welcome to the podcast.

2:17 Hello. So Abby's joining us on today's podcast because she wants to share some of the exciting things that's going on in her world and some of her passions. And we're excited to have her here. And instead of me introducing her, I think the best thing to do is, Abby, why don't you introduce yourself to the audience and tell people a little bit about who you are, what you like, what you do, you know, lots of type of stuff.

2:41 And then we'll go from there. Sure. So I am Abby and I live in Mexico. For most of the year I am English, but I left England in 2009. So since then I've spent my time mostly in Bali and in Mexico. And I am the founder of a website called Yoga 15, which is yoga for athletes.

3:07 It's for athletic performance and for recovery. So I designed a library of I'm not to 240 or so videos and courses. Most of my videos are 15 minutes long and they come under the the general umbrella is yoga for athletes and each one is a different skill that you'll be working on. So the skills are mobility, strength, balance, recovery and flexibility.

3:32 So it's a little bit different to a a normal yoga class where you'd be going for an hour, an hour and 15 minutes. This is a kind of it's a yoga glass broken down into different like into smaller parts, and they're much more targeted on a specific area. And this is just to make it more accessible for people who don't have the time to go to long classes and also maybe just don't want to do long classes.

3:56 A lot of people just want to do a short amount of time every day, and that's all they need to keep their bodies feeling good and their minds feeling clear. That's great. That's amazing. I love that it's small little bits because yeah, people don't have a lot of time usually or they they they don't think they have a lot of time.

4:15 So they try to squeeze in whatever they can. So 1520 minutes. I think about the same thing when it comes to podcasts. How do you make smaller, smaller, more digestible accessible podcast so that people can kind of listen and don't get, don't get too lost in it. So that's really cool.

4:31 And when did you start or when when did this Yoga 15 start for you? OK. So I was first a personal trainer. Actually my my degree is in English and philosophy and I was 29 when I was living in London and it all got a bit too much for me and I wanted to leave England and I didn't have any kind of qualifications to teach abroad.

4:57 So I trained to be a personal trainer, which was my passion at the time. I was very into sports of all different types. And so I trained to be a personal trainer, moved to Mexico and started working in gyms and with private clients. I did.

5:12 I absolutely loved it. But I started to find that unless I was actually holding the hand of the client, they would they would slide on their goals. So they were great, they were fit, they were getting stronger and faster, and then I wouldn't see them for a month and then it would all just would just have to start from zero.

5:27 In the gym I was working at, I started going to yoga classes. And there I really started to find something which was a bit which was more consistent and long lasting and was more self-directed and made a lot of sense to me.

5:40 So I did a yoga teacher training in Guatemala. I think that was around could have been 2012. And at the time, I was very inspired by the ethos of making your own business, and I made a lot of mistakes on the way. But the first thing that I did was to make an app, so I went on the yoga teacher training. And I decided to make my own videos, and there were a lot of videos available at the time, but they weren't particularly in the style that I was interested

6:07 in. They were quite long and they didn't always hit the net on the head for what I was looking for. So I decided to create this system of yoga that you could decide what your goal was going into the class, and then hopefully you're going to achieve that by the end of the class. So I recorded. 115 videos.

6:27 I made this entire library of videos for an app and then just took it from there. Oh so was that your app like or was it another person's app? I. Made an app. I made an app in Yoga 15 and it was one of these things which was a mistake.

6:43 It turned out to be okay. It cost a lot of money. I didn't. I didn't do what I should have done, which is just start small and then they call it a minimum viable product. I did not do that. I spent lots of money on the technology and I created something which did not create much of an income because I had to split the revenue with the developers and a little bit of a disaster. But what I did learn to do at that stage and have continued to do is just a pivot.

7:09 So I found Vimeo and I started selling the videos on Vimeo. Then I started selling them on the different course platforms like you to me and then I decided to set up a membership site. So I currently have a subscription site where people pay monthly or annually.

7:23 To access the whole library, and because it's now been 10 years and I keep filming new videos every year, it's now up to 240, something like that. And although they start that, most of the videos are 15 minutes because it is accessibility that I'm really after.

7:39 I do actually make longer videos as well because, you know, people do have a bit longer at the weekends when they want to spend a little bit more time stretching and looking after their bodies. That's cool. That's like very niche. It's like if yoga 15 is very appropriate. Yoga 15, yoga in 15 minutes, basically. So 10 years.

7:58 That's a lot. That's great. That's such a I mean, yoga now is becoming way more popular, but ten years ago I can't imagine it wasn't nearly as thriving in the space so. What was interesting is there wasn't really much for athletes at the time and because.

8:13 I I was living in Mexico and I was living in the middle of nowhere. I didn't have access to jams or studios or anything and so I decided I set myself this task can I stay fit, just sprinting and doing yoga? And this is how it was born. And I had a very close friend at the time who was a mountain biker and he was suffering from massive back pain. And the only thing that worked was that the day I came off my yoga teacher training, I started showing him just a few basic poses, just bridge pose and just

8:42 some hip stretches. And his pain went away. We tried everything up to this point. And so I started to realize that this was what I could do. I could combine my own interests and passions for sport with the yoga that I was learning. And I'd love to say that it was a master plan. But it just so happened that you're right, it was a niche that wasn't really being covered at the time. That's awesome.

9:04 And you said you were former athlete, is that what you said? Oh no. Only only recreationally, but just just a passion. Yeah, just athleticism. Yeah, yeah. I always wanted to be ready for any sport. So that's what I always found that yoga was so wonderful for. If I want to do on a surfing holiday or go climbing or go running, I just wanted to be prepared for any of these activities.

9:31 So you need to be a certain level of fitness but also your body needs to be able to move comfortably. And that's what I found yoga could support me in. That's super cool. I love that usually. Usually people who kind of go into the athletic space or former athletes and these types of things.

9:45 And I and I love that you have a different, different place in which you're coming from. And I can relate strongly to the desire of this because I am a former athlete playing basketball for most of my life. And yeah, I could imagine really of wanting something like this way back when type of thing.

10:05 So you have those little 15 minute videos. I'm trying to think of some of the things that are like the recovery and all that stuff for your lower back. These types of things would be very attractive. So I can imagine how your success has kind of come through over time, through the mistakes and through the pivoting.

10:21 Yeah, that's an amazing thing. So let's see here. You said a lot of stuff and there's a lot of things that we can kind of go into different directions. My first question I guess is you said you did your training, your first training in 2012 in Guatemala.

10:35 Is that right? What type of training did you do and who did you do it with? I'm curious. Okay. So I did my first day of teach training in Guatemala. It was a very spiritual training We had. One of our teachers was. It was a couple who taught it. One of the teachers was from California and his wife was the daughter of an Indian priest.

11:01 So we had this really beautiful balance of somebody who was brought up in the Ayurvedic tradition and also we had a her western husband. So the course was very spiritual in nature. We did. I meditated for the first time, even though I did not know what I was doing. So we just sat on this beautiful lake and I, we didn't have any instructions.

11:23 So I just sat there quietly every morning and I didn't really know what I was supposed to be doing. It really was just just a whole new world to me. So the training it was, it was a it was a unique, it wasn't a big training school, it was just something very unique.

11:35 But I think like all of these, these trainings, they are just life transforming because you're there for three weeks. And for us, there was a group of about 20 of us and you. We couldn't escape. A very, very small patch.

11:50 We were literally on the edge of a lake, so we couldn't escape this small patch of land. So it was incredibly intense. It was very emotional for everybody. But the, the learnings and the energy that was created through it was just, yeah, it was for no, no, that sounds beautiful.

12:06 I teach in a couple trainings right now that are, I mean, I teach in multiple different trainings at the moment. I'd obviously teach with Paul and Byron, which a lot of you listening probably know and in several other trainings and some of those other trainings are, I mean it's it's interesting to be in multiple different trainings because you don't.

12:24 I mean as as people who actually take a teacher training, you don't get to necessarily see multiple trainings you did have, you've taken 2 at least two that you mentioned. So it's interesting for me to see the multiple different variations of trainings. And it's so interesting how yoga can be delivered in so many different ways depending on the person who's actually sharing it or teaching it.

12:45 And I love that there's the different aspect of, it's not necessarily all about that modern like asana, you know, the physical process practice itself. And there's actually, you know, some trainings that focus heavily on that spiritual and that meditative part, which I think is also very, extremely valuable.

13:01 But overall, the thing that you said that that really stuck out to me is that it doesn't matter which training you take usually. It's generally pretty transformational because of the time that you spend together with these other humans.

13:12 You kind of challenge yourself. It's kind of like living with people who you don't know basically for a period of time and then going through the ups and downs and the challenges and stuff like that. And you just learn so much about yourself. You learn so much about people, different cultures, You learn about yoga, and it's just a beautiful, beautiful experience, which I imagine most of our listeners here can resonate with, with that.

13:34 So I think that's a beautiful thing. And then what? I just going to say that the the one thing that does stick out to me is that after my first teacher training I was not ready to teach yoga. And even though you know you're there almost a month and I it's similar thing happened when I did the personal training certification, you're not ready to teach at that.

13:55 Well, I certainly wasn't ready to teach at that time. So you mentioned I've done now three teacher trainings and they all have been very different and they needed quite a lot of space between them. Because you can't accelerate this process. You can't accelerate the process of becoming a teacher. And I think it's great that you can teach and you can learn on students and you can.

14:16 You need to be doing the practice in order to, you can't learn about it theoretically. But I think that subsequent trainings or subsequent workshops, at least I think that I almost feel like every teacher needs that needs to have multiple, different, as you call it, different styles of learning. Different styles of training so that they can, they can find out where the cross section is that they want to fit into. Because you're not going to want to follow the teachers and you may be very, very influenced by

14:45 the first teachers that you have. And you think this is it. This is the way that I'm going to go. But you don't know what to compare that against and you try another one and you think, oh wow, I'd like to take part to this or this person particularly inspired me or yeah, I like this style of teaching or I like this style of. Practicing myself and I think it is the combination of different styles that really helps you as a teacher to be more confident and to be to be unique, to find

15:11 your own unique style. I really like that. Yeah, I hear that a lot too, in a lot of these trainings is, you know, most of the trainings I teach in are vinyasa or power yoga. And then there's a few that are more of just the traditional hatha and meditation focus.

15:29 And then there's occasionally being sprinkled into different things of like yin and then, you know, the vinyasa will share a little bit about the hoffa and that so on and so forth. So it's kind of like sprinkling in a little bit of what is out there. And then I hear from the students that some of them just like you're saying, they resonate more with, you know, a certain style or lineage that isn't necessarily the primary focus of the training that

15:50 they're taking. But they were able to find it through that training. And then it inspires them to be like, I think I'm going to go take a YIN training now or I think I'm going to go in this direction now. So I think that's a beautiful thing.

15:59 Because then yeah, I mean, I think I can speak for myself. When I did my teacher training, I didn't really know what kind of training I wanted to do either. I was just like, I'm just going to do whatever one is. The good timing, the good price, you know, this type of stuff of the things I'm thinking about. But then once you kind of get in the door, then you then you get more clarity.

16:19 And that clarity gives you a little bit more direction on where you think you may or may not want to go. So I think that's that's awesome. So you've done 3 trainings. Very different in style, yeah. There was this first one, which is very spiritual.

16:32 I then actually did one which was combined with body work, so with a sort of yoga, yoga, Thai massage training as well. So that was, it wasn't a yoga alliance certificate, but it was another three-week immersive training in Bali.

16:47 And then obviously, Elements of Power, and I think some of my favorite classes I've ever been to are Byron's classes. And yet my style could not be, could not be more different. So I think that just the way that you know the classes that you enjoy going to may not be the same as the style that you enjoy teaching. And I think that your students to sort of assume that you teach the style that you enjoy.

17:12 But I don't know if that's always the case, right? Yeah, that's true. There's a couple students that have done the elements of power yoga training and they love going to Paul and Byron's classes. In fact, they probably don't go to anyone else's classes, but they don't teach in that way. In fact, they like to just kind of hold space more the meditative practice, more the yins type stuff just to kind of speak to your point there.

17:35 So yeah, that's really cool. And then the second training that you did sounded like more of a hands on type of training body or Sen training? Yeah, it's called Zen Zen Tai Shiatsu. So it was it was half and half and the yoga was was called Yoga flow.

17:53 But the teacher had a very Hannah he had a martial arts background. So I don't know if you know Buddha con yoga. Yeah so it was it was basically the yoga was was kind of cross with the martial arts style and then the other half of the training was this body work which and but you're using your it wasn't like like a Swedish massage or something you're using your body to.

18:19 To move the the the student it is, it's not even a patient, it's the student that you're working with. And I mean, that was completely wonderful. But again, that's something I would have needed ten years of experience before I could ever feel ready to teach that.

18:33 It was just a it was just a wonderful experience and it definitely rounded out my own training. But yeah, it wasn't an Ave. that I was able to go down further. It was just interesting to do cool. So I'm going to, I'm going to shift gears a little bit.

18:50 And we've talked a lot about your background, talk about teacher trainings, talked about, you know, yoga, lineages and all these types of stuff. I'm I'm thinking about some of the people who are listening to this podcast or, you know, maybe recent graduates, maybe people who've already kind of established their career or what they want to do with yoga.

19:06 Or maybe they just don't teach yoga, They just love practicing. I'm not really sure. But I think part of what you've shared with me higher to starting this podcast was just about finding your passion, finding the thing that excites you and kind of just ultimately going for it.

19:24 And it sounds like you you, you know, you kind of explore that over the, let's just say the last 10 or so years. And you, you highlighted, you know, making lots of mistakes and you're going in this direction and pivoting and being open to just like making adjustments and stuff like that.

19:36 And that's like a whole adventurous time. It's basically an entrepreneurial journey to make lots of mistakes and need to pivot and adjust and stuff like that. But I think for a lot of yoga teachers who are are newer and they're thinking of how they're going to create this new career, maybe they're coming from corporate or maybe they're trying to figure out how do I make yoga more of my life. I think I wanted to teach yoga because teaching yoga is a very fulfilling career.

20:02 I mean, I can speak from my own experience, but I feel like I feel really amazing when I teach yoga and I share yoga with other people. And it makes me want to do more of it. So I can imagine that other people that are feeling in that same kind of way, they're kind of thinking like, how do I make this happen?

20:17 Like what do I do? Like how do I, you know, And these are all the questions that are kind of coming in their head. So you mentioned that you you've been reading a few books this year and one of them in particular was called mastery. Is that right Mastery?

20:31 Yeah, Mastery by Robert Green, by Robert Green. And that's been, that's been something that's really sparked your heart a little bit. So maybe talk a little bit about that, what that's about and how it's relevant to maybe our audience. The way that I teach yoga is probably quite different to most people and I feel that I am lucky because teaching yoga is can be very competitive and I haven't had to deal with that same level as competition.

21:03 I haven't had to deal in the same way with having to fill a class competing with other teachers in a studio, because I've only ever taught apart from I do to do privates for professional athletes. But otherwise it's all online so my work schedule is actually very different.

21:20 And is is just as you say is wonderfully fulfilling, but it is very different to teaching in a studio. A lot of what I do is behind a computer, so I'm writing videos and recording audios I run. I built my website and I run my website and I have a newsletter. So there's lots of different elements to it, which would be different to the sort of conventional path that you may choose.

21:47 But to me, it has been so wonderful and we do have so many more opportunities to do it. Now you don't have to teach in a studio. So much of yoga, obviously specifically since the pandemic, but is online. So if that is something that seems attractive to you, it's much, much easier than you think.

22:06 And I think the main lesson that I have learned throughout everything is to get started. So as you mentioned, I mean I made so many mistakes, but you don't know about your mistakes and you can't learn about your mistakes from somebody else.

22:21 You just have to do it and try it and fall flat on your face and. Or they say every day is a school day. It's through the failure that you learn and you find out what you're good at and you're not so good at. But I do. I think that I've been, I think that the online approach, because you don't, it's almost like your overheads are lower because you're not having to compete in a studio.

22:42 I just already, you know, I have the teachers that are already there and that can be, I think, a very difficult path. And if you are attracted to technology, and maybe if you're a bit more introverted, then teaching online really can be quite wonderful. I mean, for one thing, you get to choose your own schedule because I didn't even do live online classes. Everything that I teach is in a studio and I have membership sites and I license my videos to

23:07 different course platforms and athletic apps. And so it's it's just a very different way of teaching yoga and the so I've got hundreds of thousands of students. And I don't have that same relationship that you would have if you you know you're teaching them in a studio situation, but you still get an enormous amount of feedback from your students and it's just as fulfilling and rewarding.

23:32 It's just a very different way of doing it. Yeah, that's amazing. That must feel really nice. That's a lot of students to take care of. Well, I mean it's over 10 years and I I have my videos on so many different platforms now. And I think that's another thing, you know, you said there is a lot of pivoting and you know we're now having to compete with AI.

23:54 Like there's so many ways you do need to keep fresh and changing and seeing, you know, what worked 5 minutes ago, I have my courses on Skillshare and suddenly they change the rules and your videos make 1/4 of the income that they did before.

24:08 So then you can't sit on your laurels because you need to eat. So you look for the next platform and you have to continually keep. It's just the same as you'd have to do in any other situation but online you're looking for new platforms or I mean there's there's pros and cons of I have my own website and that's fantastic in some ways because I am in control of it, but I also have to do admin.

24:28 So you have to decide whether you want to do that or you want to. You know if you're on YouTube, you don't have to deal with the platform, but you don't have so much control over who is seeing your videos and you're basically, yeah, you're you're living on someone else's land.

24:41 So there's just pros and cons for different avenues. So for those people who are listening, who are thinking like, OK, like I do want to teach yoga or, you know, this is very inspiring, but it seems kind of unreachable. Like, you know, Abby's talking about a lot of the success that she's had and in the ups and downs and kind of the where she is might seem like, oh, how, how would I ever even get there?

25:06 And I think the big thing that she said that whether you caught it or not, was to literally just get started just to start something. And even if you don't, if you're like, well, what do I start? It doesn't really matter.

25:16 Just start something. Because with that information you're going to start to find more clarity. And with that clarity, you might decide that you don't like what you started originally, but then you'll find out more. So what, You might want to move into a different direction in that quote, UN quote pivoting. But you can't figure out what to pivot to if you don't start anything at all.

25:37 So the reason why I wanted to highlight that is just because I hear this a lot for a lot of newer teachers or even people in Bali who are trying to figure out how they can kind of establish an unconventional career here in Bali is to ultimately just just go for it. Like you said, fall on your face, just put something out there, you know, and just see what happens. And then whatever happens, you're going to learn from that experience whether it's successful or not successful. And be honest, most things are

26:04 not super successful at the beginning, but doing it and starting and taking action and executing on some sort of idea or some sort of thought or some sort of passion is really the best way to allow anything to actually come into fruition.

26:20 It's very, very unlikely and very rare for anyone to start something and it'd be successful the first time out. It's just it's not realistic. So hopefully that provides a little bit of clarity and inspiration for those who are like, yeah, how am I going to do all this stuff?

26:34 I want to do what Abby's doing. But realizing that it might seem out of reach, it doesn't matter, you know, just like Abby probably did. She started somewhere. She started making videos, and she even said, like, the way that she started was not the right way to go, Right.

26:47 She admitted that. So yeah, something to think about. I think that's really cool. I would say also keep the stakes low. That's the real key. You need to make it so there's there's nothing to lose by trying and YouTube is a wonderful platform for that. There is no cost to you to put those videos up. So that's why I say start early, not because you want to fail, but because you want to fail where the consequences aren't so high and the sooner you do that,

27:17 the lower the consequences are. If you start doing that much later in your career, then it's it's much harder to do so when when you're at a time where you can just. Just be foolish and try different things and and yeah, keep the stakes low. Don't pay lots of money for a platform to be built for you or a website to be built for you.

27:35 Just start on Instagram, start on YouTube. The platforms now are so accessible to anybody. And then you can decide, okay, this is working, this isn't working. But don't try to put too many barriers in the way of succeeding.

27:48 And the other thing I would say is, and this is almost contrary to what I've been saying so far, but. Try not to make the videos about you because people aren't looking for you yet, because people don't know you yet. And you may have the most wonderful personality in the world, but you can't expect people to know that until they've got to know your content.

28:08 So first you want to find out what it is that you can help people with. Because people on YouTube aren't searching for you yet. They're searching for their need to be fixed. So whatever it is they're searching for, that's how they'll find you.

28:21 And then what? Then you can start to develop your personality. But it's almost putting the cart before the horse. What you want to do first is to try to serve and then you'll find that your personality grows and people come to love that in you, but you don't.

28:35 It's not really the place to start. I've got a great personality and people need to see it. It's more like I've got some way to help and they will learn to love you through that process rather than the other way around. Beautiful.

28:48 I got a little bit of chills when you said that. That's nice. Really cool. Okay. So where should we go from here? I would love to talk about that with you. I'm thinking the other thing that you had mentioned, you read a couple other books. I don't know if some of that is going to be relevant, but you did mention being more interested in the science, the biomechanical aspects, the athletic performance and stuff like that, which?

29:13 Yeah, it's more of a niche or I mean it's not it is a niche, but it's just a different category of type of yoga and it's probably more relevant to more of the Western approach of what yoga is like. We we started this podcast talking a little bit about the spiritual aspect and and you know, meditation and stuff like that.

29:31 But for some people, for most of us who are listening, who are most likely yoga teachers. I mean, going into the meditation world is a fantastic approach and something that is highly needed in the world, but there's not a lot of people whose eyes are open to what that is or even being receptive to wanting to try. However, people are very receptive to science and exercise and those types of aspects, athleticism, all these words really attract people,

29:58 which might eventually lead to the meditation in the spiritual aspect. So yeah, I think talking about that might be a great idea, so. Yeah, very interested in your path. How? Because in my world, it's actually a little bit less common for that to be the anatomy as sort of the.

30:17 The foundation of the of the training. So I would, I'd love to hear a little bit more about that, especially because I feel that that is what people in real so many people are actually struggling with and that not only that yoga is one of the most powerful tools you mentioned you know your background in physiotherapy and biomechanics, these are fantastic and it's it's wonderful to cross those with yoga, but I do find that there is they are quite reductionistic.

30:45 And there are certain elements of yoga which are almost unquantifiable, like taking the time to focus on yourself and moving holistically and stretching your body from all different angles, working with the breath and challenging yourself in kind of quiet ways, which we don't necessarily get from the sciences, but we do get from yoga.

31:08 So you want to interview me? Is that what you want to do? Yes, please. I don't know more, I really would. Right. You're much more experienced than I am in this area. Well, I think the first thing that comes up to mind for me is, well, what is yoga? Yoga, I mean, it can be described as many different things, but to me it's a self-awareness practice. It's an introspective practice, creating more awareness of self, creating more awareness of your inner canvas if you will. And awareness of self means

31:38 okay. I'm aware of my body. I'm aware of who I am, aware of my thoughts. I'm aware of, you know, everything that's around me ultimately. And part of me is just like, well, if the more that people understand their own body and how it works and how it moves and how it functions.

31:54 And you know, not necessarily the chemical reactions and all that stuff that goes on, but the more that they understand themselves from a physical perspective, the more empowered they feel to to do a lot of different things to whether it be help themselves to possibly help other people.

32:08 The beautiful thing about being human is that we all have the same body. We have different bodies, more or less, but the same structure. We all have the same structure, you know, same pelvis, same same bone structure, generally speaking. So it's easy to learn more about the human body if taught in a way that is digestible and accessible. And I find that when I'm teaching and I'm trying to bring this information to yoga teachers, Well, first of all, anatomy and learning with the

32:35 body is a massive, massive, massive endeavor. And being able to teach that type of stuff is just, it's too much information. Like, it's overwhelming. And I'm sure people who've taken anatomy classes or taken anatomy and other trainings probably feel that way.

32:48 So one of my passions, one of the things that's most important to me is kind of like what you're saying about Yoga 15 is making it accessible, right? You want to make the yoga accessible. You want to make you want to basically speak to the problem, which goes back to this entrepreneurial thing. You're like, OK, I'm going to provide yoga to athletes who only have a short amount of time, so 15 minute videos that are specific to their athletic needs. Boom, right.

33:10 So for me, I'm thinking about okay. I'm teaching in these trainings. I'm trying to help people learn a little bit more about their own body and as it relates to yoga, but I only have a few, you know, however many sessions, however many hours to teach it. So then I just go to the to the aspects that are going to be the most important, the most relevant. And I don't teach anything else that isn't relevant to yoga or particularly safety in yoga.

33:32 So I think being sharper or what I try to do is I try to be really sharp on the information that I share and making sure that it's extremely relevant to the person's current interests. Otherwise they'll just fall asleep and they won't really listen. So knowing that I'm teaching to people who are or who are, who are interested in being yoga teachers, or at least they're interested in learning more about yoga, whether they actually want to teach yoga or

33:57 not is a question. So I'm thinking, OK, they want to learn more about yoga. So how do I teach them more about yoga through the lens of understanding their body? And when I come from that approach, I notice that people are really engaged. They're leaning in.

34:11 They're being like, oh, I see. Oh, so, so this is what that's called. And And when I do this, that's what this means. Oh, OK Oh. And that relates to back pain, which I can, I can relate to because I've had back pain before.

34:23 Oh, I can relate to that because I felt, you know, this discomfort in my knee before. So like kind of what you said, it's people are interested in whatever they can do to help. You said the word fix. But ultimately things that are going on in their world and how they can make themselves quote UN quote better or how they can improve their physical Wellness or maybe their physical performance.

34:46 And a lot of times they're interested in those ways of being like okay, what do I need to do? Like what do I need to do? And sometimes you don't need to necessarily do anything. Sometimes just knowing a little bit will allow you to figure out what you need to do.

34:58 It's also very pleasurable to understand more about your body. I don't think that, yeah, it's just amazing when those things click in your mind and you think, oh okay, something basic like if you've got lower back pain, you might not know that you have a weak core and that that's why you're feeling this instability in that area. There are very small pieces of information that can actually make a huge difference I find, and that that way that you teach it is amazing just to find out.

35:27 What are the sort of 8020, what are the 20% of pieces of information that you can get that you're from that get the 80% of results because and and that is such a wonderful skill and actually even though we feel like special snowflakes, I think that as you say, we are all the same and something that feels so uniquely painful to us may also be experienced by numerous other people and just. Just as, you know, just some some understanding of the body or some understanding of a

35:55 breathing practice and why it works to make just such a powerful difference to the way somebody feels and and to much, much more than that, to how they feel in their whole lives. Yeah, to me, I find it empowers them. It empowers them because they understand more about themselves and then if they understand more about themselves, which is kind of what yoga is, learning more about yourself, maybe not necessarily from a physical perspective.

36:18 I mean, it should be, but for my job it's it is my job to help them understand more of themselves from a physical perspective. And then it's yoga's job to help them understand more of themselves from all the other perspectives. You know, mostly mentally and all these other aspects. And then they have the tools themselves to to help themselves.

36:37 If they have, you know, they're suffering from indigestion. They know what position to put their bodies into or they've they've suffered an injury and they know how quickly to start moving. I think that that that element.

36:48 Of reconnection with, you know, as you say to sort of reconnecting with your body in a way that we're not kind of shipping things out to my stomach hurts, my back hurts. I need to go get a pharmaceutical that doesn't help the situation. We're going to come back to the same situation time and time again if we do it that way.

37:04 And I think you're right, just that that empowering piece that it is a yoga is a tool that you can you can use yourself. You don't need anybody else to help you to. Either prevent the, I mean, you talked about preventing injuries as well as healing them and I think that is just, yeah, it's a massively empowering tool. Yeah.

37:23 And that's what I want. I want people to feel empowered. I mean, that's why I studied the body since I was like 18 years old is because I was an athlete and I wanted to be able to help myself. And I think everyone wants to help themselves, but sometimes people don't know how to.

37:37 They don't know where to start. And you know, thinking about the human body, thinking about nutrition, thinking about all that stuff like that's so overwhelming for people. And in fact it's it is Not only is it overwhelming, it's overwhelming because the Internet makes it even more overwhelming because of so much information that is just contradictory each other. And everyone and their mother is talking about something that, you know, if you're trying to

38:01 find an answer to be true, if you Google it, you'll probably find it to be true somewhere because someone's going to agree with it and talk about it and blog about it and video about it. So it's it's very overwhelming and confusing for people to learn about themselves and to understand themselves. So yeah, it it, it kind of hurts my heart to see people who struggle with trying to take care of themselves and they don't don't know how because they just don't understand simple little processes that are

38:31 happening in the body or don't understand some of the just simple biomechanics of their body. So I feel honored actually to be able to teach yoga to people who are actually or, sorry, teach yoga, yes, teach yoga, but teach anatomy or yoga anatomy to people who are actually like interested. So to me, I feel super like when I'm sitting there in front of 30 people, I'm just like, this is an amazing opportunity where I get to share things that's going

38:54 to help them, right. I'm not trying to teach them the names of muscles and where it attaches all that stuff that to me is not important. If it's important to you, sure, you can Google that stuff. I'm trying to connect the dots between like what yoga is, the movements in the body, the anatomy and how it's relevant to your day-to-day life, how it's relevant to pain and suffering in certain ways, and now what you can do to help yourself or what you can do to possibly move

39:18 in the direction to help yourself. And yeah, I don't want to talk too much about my own what I do, but I just, I think it's really important that people learn about how their body works. I really do. 100% such a difference. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

39:36 And the other thing as well, you know, I'm we're talking about yoga teachers. We're talking about or I'm talking about empowering yoga teachers to learn about themselves. But The thing is, is you, you become a better yoga teacher and you become a better yoga share.

39:49 Or someone who shares yoga, if you understand how the body works as well. Because when you're communicating certain movements, or you're communicating certain actions or certain cues, there's a little bit of more of a reason why. You say those things, and there's a reason why you're moving in this position, and there's a reason why you sequence this and this order and so on and so forth, as opposed to just doing it because you saw someone else do it, or doing it because you copied someone

40:12 else's sequence. And I like it when people start to have more autonomy to be able to make these decisions and know what they're actually saying and know what they're actually doing. Because unfortunately I feel like that's what's missing a lot in the world is is thought like actual like them thinking about what am I doing is this does this make sense to me and actually questioning things because now I find a lot of people are just repeating what other people are doing like oh I see this.

40:40 I Google that what I'm just going to do what that person's doing. And like sure that might work. But to me while a couple things happen first of all first of all you lose the authenticity and the realness of of your own personality like you were saying before with with you creating basically your work is like eventually the personality came through. Eventually all that stuff kind of came through. And I just want.

41:03 I just want people to be able to think for themselves. And I want them to be able to be themselves in a way that because this is the thing, everyone is so beautiful just the way that they are and the more that they can feel empowered to be themselves will be very attractive.

41:18 It's hard though, isn't it? When you're young, it's so hard because what what, what other choices do you have? You just imitate others and that's that's what you have to do. And it's also flawed in its own way. It's a process that we all go through, and we are. We are amazing imitators early in our lives, and that's completely fine.

41:38 But you can't feel your own groove when you're doing that. There feels some friction there. When when you find your thing, that's when you're in flow, that's when. It's that you're not questioning anything, you're just doing, You're just being. But the the phases before that are uncomfortable and there's no shortcut to because you you if the best thing to do is to be influenced by this and by that, all that person moves incredibly well.

42:01 I'm going to incorporate dance into it. Well, that person plays music. I'm going to incorporate music. And you you try all these things and at the time they feel like this is the one, this is the real me. And I think you go through that 100 times before you then go, ah, we're gay. I just do my thing now and I get those takes. This takes a while and all those parts are beautiful. But there is a point where you you feel like you're, yeah, there is less friction and

42:24 you're just you could just go that what you call it, authentic. Yeah, when you get to that place. But you can't you can't rush it and you can't judge anyone who's not there yet that you can. You can only do so much to encourage that.

42:36 It's just, it just happened in its own good time and you can just hope to be there and to support it when it does happen. Yeah, absolutely. Well said also the friction piece, it's like the more friction there is and the more you move into that friction, this eventually the smoother it will get to kind of give that physics perspective.

42:56 So yeah, and it kind of comes full circle with the beginning of this conversation about, you know, making mistakes and like just taking action and getting started and just like doing something. It's like, yeah, that's all part of this, like friction And the thing that's going to be challenging and you know, not necessarily knowing what to do or knowing how to be or you know all these aspects, like you may not know those things. In fact, like you're saying, I

43:20 mean it's it's it's hard. It's difficult. And like most people don't know and that's the great thing is that we're all kind of in the same boat. So you just got to try something, but then yeah, don't necessarily. And this is the thing that I would just want to make sure is like don't necessarily try something that someone else is doing and then just go full on into that with like a very narrow mindset.

43:39 Just be like, OK, I'm going to try this and then be open to feedback. Be open to what what you're doing and how it lands on other people or how it's being received. Because from there getting feedback and hearing feedback whether it be you know, verbal or or whatever, sometimes it's just like you can kind of tell energetically like what how this is, is resonating with people or maybe not resonating with people.

44:04 Then that way you you learn from that information and that's what allows you to possibly pivot and adjust. The tightness isn't that when you're imitating someone else, you're it's a very tight feeling because you've already decided how it's going to be, because you're imitating this thing.

44:18 And it's very difficult, as you say, to respond to feedback. And that's exactly what you have to do. But it's so hard if I think that's the The problem with imitation is that you've already you're almost you're almost projecting what you expect to see.

44:32 And so your mind isn't open to reality. It isn't open to the actual feedback that's coming back to you. And yeah, you're sort of, you're stuck in a little box. But if you can, yeah, if you can be constantly trying to be aware of how you feel and how you are impacting other people, the feedback that's coming back to you, then you can start to flow a little bit more with it and be a little bit less. You need to sort of let go of it needing to be a particular way because the the theory that's in

45:01 your head is never going to be the practice. You can, you can make as many plans as you like about how this is going to look. It just won't go that way. When you get when you come up against reality, it just goes and you know it's like a firework, it just goes off in different directions. So if you are holding on too tight then it's just going to take you longer.

45:18 But if you can just let go a little bit of knowing how it has to be, then I think you can open up the kind of the pathways to make. To make that process a little bit faster and more fluid, Yeah. And I think that comes down to being okay with making mistakes. Being okay with it not being perfect and perfectionism and not wanting to make mistakes is something that is taught in schools and society and in so many ways. We learn it from our parents.

45:52 We learn it from the people around us. So it's it's almost like a pandemic of perfectionism. My people don't want to make mistakes. They don't want to seem like they're they're not worthy, they're not valuable. So making mistakes makes them feel less than. But the the truth is, yeah, the truth is mistakes is what what makes you move into the direction that you don't even know you need to move into.

46:18 And success, quote UN quote success or desire or purpose or whatever it is that you you're trying to pursue, doesn't have a linear line. It doesn't move in a straight line. It moves all the way to the left and then maybe all the way to the right and then maybe a little bit forward and then more to the left, more the right, then a little bit forward. And you could enjoy that.

46:38 You don't. That doesn't have to be a bad thing if you are able to. What does it say? If the path be beautiful? You don't need to worry where it's going. It's like you're just on it and you're on it for the ride. And that's that's lovely yeah.

46:53 Yeah it's a difficult thing I I say I say this and I'm sure you say this as well in a way of I have empathy for the difficulty that it is whenever you cuz I know what it. I mean, I'm, I'm a former perfectionist and someone who hated making mistakes and, you know, being up and teaching in front of people and saying something that someone might challenge and making me, you know, feel like, oh, I made a mistake or I'm teaching the wrong thing or I don't know what

47:18 I'm saying or they're going to question me. And that means that I'm not good enough for all of these thoughts that go into my head. Like it's not, it's not uncommon, right? Everyone has this. So if you are one of those people that feel those things, like you just kind of have to lean into it with humility and be OK with being challenged and being OK with receiving feedback because that's kind of what it is.

47:40 And trust the process. You've seen, you've seen hundreds of people and hundreds of people go through this process of being scared and not thinking that they're good enough to do this. And you, I guess you must just be like, hang on in there. This is, this is part of it.

47:53 It's OK. And that's fascinating to watch. Yeah, it's cool and it's easy for me to say to hang in there. But for them, their perspective, they're like. I don't know. So yeah, I'm still a perfectionist and it's horrible. And it is part of me that thinks I need the perfection because I work to such high standards.

48:13 So something you tell yourself these things. But I think the biggest lesson I've ever learned is just to let go. As much as I'm not a big letting go person. But even in the areas that I feel I can just to let go a little bit here and there, I think it makes all the difference.

48:26 Yeah, yeah, letting go of control, perfectionism, mistakes, all those elements. And like you're saying, there's definitely some, so there's some added benefits to, I don't want to say, perfectionism, but just being detail oriented, orientated or really trying to do a good job, right?

48:41 You just want to be careless? Yeah, exactly. So there's a lot of benefits to it, but just understanding the limitations or understanding the areas of friction that may stop you from being able to progress forward. And honestly, to summarize all that, I would say the biggest thing is feedback is being okay to receive feedback.

49:03 You know, being able to be okay to hearing something that you may not want to hear. But not only being okay with it, thinking this is wonderful, like someone is taking the time to give me feedback. I don't have to. They may not even be right, but just the fact that somebody is taking the time to. To give you some feedback on what you have been doing, I think that's you just you have to see it as a gift. It can't make you close up when you hear it. You have to go, OK, bring it,

49:31 you know you should close your eyes and tell them to give it to you. But I think that that is how you go, that's how you learn, that's how you not just stuck in a box, just making your own decisions. I think that even though it's the hardest thing to do, being able to accept criticism is is like a joy basically just doesn't feel that way in the moment, right? Absolutely, yeah.

49:52 And and depending on how the feedback comes in, can also be a little bit jarring, kind of what the timing of what it is. So there's a whole art to it, let's be honest. And nonetheless. We should be more resilient. Maybe we should just be like, OK, give it to me roughly.

50:05 I don't know. Like, I think that you're absolutely right. It can be really wonderful to hear feedback in the right way. But sometimes, sometimes we can't be too precious and somebody's going to tell us that they. Which is horrible.

50:17 And actually deep down we know that was the thing and we and. Maybe we're more resilient if we're able. I'm I'm highly oversensitive. Basically I used to get very upset when he was criticizing me and I realized that it's only someone's opinion. It's not fact.

50:33 I don't have to be upset by this. It's just like that was OK and actually now I'm a little bit like just don't even hold back. You don't have to put this in a nice way. Just tell me what it is. Then I can. I can accept that and decide what to do with it at that time. But, and obviously you don't want to go around giving people to listen to the advice.

50:51 But it is that I find that the superpower to be able to say to somebody just tell me what the worst thing that I just did was, Because almost that way you're gonna learn more than if they sugarcoat it and tell you what you did really nicely.

51:04 That's not so much what you're gonna learn from, right? Yeah, yeah. The best thing to do is to ask for feedback. Absolutely. Because if you. Because if you ask for it, that means that you're gonna be open to it. Someone if you give feedback or you receive feedback that's unwarranted, unsolicited, or you're not expecting it, that's when the walls come up. That's when the egos like I'm not ready for this. What are you trying to say?

51:27 I'm not perfect. What what mistakes I didn't? That's not me. If you're around giving it, yeah, defend, defend, defend. And it's like that doesn't work. But if we're talking about feedback being extremely valuable, and it is in so many different aspects, and I think I actually love it. I'll take some of the classes of some of our students here in Bali who have had some opportunities to actually teach here publicly.

51:49 And they get super nervous when they see me walk into the class. But like, you know, that's part of their resilience that they need to build. But I love it because at the end of the class they say, hey, do you have any feedback for me?

52:00 And I'm just like, of course, yeah, I'll give you some feedback. And I, you know, I say how much it was some good stuff and I'll and, you know, give them some feedback. But this is how we learn, This is how we grow. This is how we progress, is being open to receiving feedback, constructive criticism and the gateway to that is needing to be open minded to it.

52:18 So that that is the tricky part. That is the tricky part, but. But it's a mindset, isn't it? I think actually it's something that you can practice and it becomes less painful in time. Like all of these things, like the the what is it?

52:31 Hard things, easy life. Easy things, hard life, right? Well, I think you do. The actually the easier that it does get. But please don't think I'm suggesting that people should go around giving nasty feedback to people. That's not what I'm saying at all. But just if you want to be open to feedback, you can always ask for it and ask for it however they want to give it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

52:55 It's a delicate balance a little bit, but just understanding the value of it I think is probably one of the first steps that I I mean and I had to learn this lesson a while ago. So it's easy for me to talk about it and it sounds like Abby, you've also kind of learned this as well.

53:07 So hopefully we can help speed up that learning curve for you. Listening to kind of jump to it a little bit further and I actually heard something I think I was on Instagram the other day and I was saw like a video I forget who the person that was talking about it. I think it was one of the actors, a British actor, and he was talking about difficulty and and he would use the term or he would say the term, use the difficulty, as in when there's difficulty, there's always

53:34 something in the difficulty that you can use. So if we were to apply this to feedback, when you get feedback that might be difficult to hear, how do you use that difficulty into a way that can, you know, improve the situation.

53:47 So maybe there's a small, a small percentage. Yeah, there's something there. Even though I don't like it and it's not helpful, but like what is this? What can I learn from this? Maybe they're. Wrong, wouldn't you? Yeah, don't it hurt you or?

53:59 Damage in some way. How exactly? How can you turn it around? How can you say that's okay? I'm going to use this to make me stronger. And I think we do have more power than we feel. We don't have to be the passive recipients all the time.

54:13 We can choose. The other book that you mentioned that I read is called Awareness by Anthony. The Matter and this has changed my life. But it's all about it's not if somebody if somebody is mean to you. You can choose to accept that as being mean. You can always leave like you you have the opportunity to say, yeah, I'm going to get stronger through this situation. I and and I do.

54:35 I do think that we have, I think that we have more capacity than we realize to be able to turn the bad things into good things. It's it's a hard process to get into, but you don't learn anything as a victim and life doesn't feel very fun.

54:53 But as soon as you start feeling I'm not a victim, like okay bye and hear me with that and I'm gonna turn that into something, then you're empowered. Then you're then you're really living. Then you're not being, you're not being busted around by other people's moods and other people's, other people's dictates on you.

55:12 What you're gonna do with this? How you're gonna feel? And then you're able to, yeah, feel self empowered to live in the way that you want to live. Not thinking or no, that thing hurt me. Just think, Okay, how can I turn this into an advantage? Yeah, exactly.

55:26 And can you just say that book again one more time? Cuz you said it quickly. Okay. So awareness, one of your favorite words, it sounds like by Anthony Demella. So he's a Jesuit priest and a psychologist and it's a book that.

55:41 You know those books where you're not. It takes a little while until you're ready to hear the messages, but because I think some of the ideas are quite difficult to grapple with. Just the spiritual ideas are quite difficult to grapple with, but I think that the basics in there are just so life changing, right?

55:59 And then mastery. Just remind me of that book again, the name of the author. Robert Green. So that's nicely really, for people who are at the beginning of their career and it really takes you through the whole process of. Deciding what it is that is your nice task and then it teaches you how to find good mentors and how to to yeah it takes you through the whole process of mastery and it is interesting if you have already found your thing but really the the juice of it is for if you're if you're

56:27 starting out or you know you're you have you are a teacher so you are you're around young people who are I mean it would certainly be wonderful for you to read because you would then be able to. Gives that sort of information on to the people who are at that stage.

56:41 So it's really for both those types of people already, right? And then you mentioned a third book before which was called Framework I believe. Framework by Nicholas Di Nubile, which I found fascinating. I think it really liked that it gives a framework. It's actually a strength training framework, but it does include stretching as well on how to make your body resilient as you grow older against injury. It's a really fantastic book, actually. Great.

57:09 Cool. Well, I'll have these in the show notes for people if they want to look more into any of those books and feel inspired to follow those. Awesome. This has been really exciting. I kind of want to keep talking, but we're approaching an hour and an hour. I feel wonderful.

57:26 Yeah. It got really juicy at the end. I was like, this is really exciting stuff. Yeah. Is there anything else that comes to mind that you'd like to share or anything that you think is a value to talk about in the next few minutes?

57:40 But I do. I have just genuinely loved speaking to you. Yeah, it's wonderful to speak to somebody who is just who is doing a similar thing to that I'm doing, but from a different angle. And it's just so fascinating because it is.

57:56 We're all doing the same thing with the same goals generally. But your strategy and your day-to-day looks very different to mine. And so there's just so much to learn from all the different angles that we're all approaching the same basic topic, right?

58:11 Yeah, Beautiful. Cool. I'll share one last thing just because it's on the topic, even though this is not an interview of myself, but I think it's really important and it has to do with feedback. And the quick little short story that I'm gonna share is that I received feedback, unsolicited feedback about probably four or five years ago that I did not receive very well, but it changed my life and ultimately the individual.

58:41 So I think the timing and and the situation was appropriate enough for me to receive it. But ultimately what happened is there was an individual person that I met and it was a very brief moment, so I didn't really know them very well.

58:53 But we ended up going for dinner and he was just such a nice and charismatic person. And he just kind of leaned in one time and just said something to me that was basically like, you know what's interesting about you, Michael?

59:05 He's like, I noticed that when when I'm talking that it's almost like you're not really paying attention to what I'm saying. And you're, you're you're almost like you have something that you're you're waiting to say. And he's like, I just find it so fascinating.

59:15 He just kind of, like casually mentioned that. And then all I heard, all I heard is you're not a very good listener, which, which was it kind of like hit me in the heart. Like, I was like, oh, oh, God, what did he just say? Who's this stranger?

59:30 And like, my ego was just like, and I didn't really know how to handle it. And then I went home and I couldn't stop thinking about that. And it was bothering me so much. And then my partner Christina, at the time kind of, like, leaned in and said, well, he's not wrong. I was just like, oh God, my heart, my heart. But then it was feedback that I needed to hear. And it was just like, oh, maybe I'm not as receptive as I thought it was.

59:53 Like, I thought I was a really good listener. But, you know, hearing this feedback, even though I didn't really want to hear it and it was hard to hear, made me really reflect on myself being like, oh shit, do I do that?

1:00:04 And then when I got a second piece of the feedback, it was just like, oh, and this is the thing about feedback, it's you can get one piece of feedback and it means whatever. If you get the same piece of feedback multiple times, it usually means that there's probably some truth behind it.

1:00:18 So that's ultimately what happened for me. And even though I wasn't ready to receive it, it helped to change my life. So that's the last thing I just wanted to mention about that is because when you are, whether you're open or not to feedback, sometimes that feedback can make big changes for you. And now I find now I now I teach about receptivity. Now I teach about being good listeners. Because to me it's like I don't want other people to be like that.

1:00:41 I want other people to know how they can thrive and improve the quality of their life. By being a good listener, by holding better space, by by supporting people with just being present. So yeah, I just wanted to throw that in there since it was relevant to the conversation and feedback. I mean, it's a wonderful example and I think you're probably right.

1:01:03 You probably were a good listener so but we can all do better. You probably won't aren't a terrible listener at 1st, and when put up against other people, I'm sure you were a great listener. But I think that's the beauty of feedback.

1:01:18 What do you want just to be just this good at a thing? Like wouldn't you want to be weird? Like, wouldn't you want to be a master of it? Wouldn't you want to be the best that you could be at it? So it's not. You may be doing absolutely fine, but that piece of feedback might just take you to the next level. So I think it's.

1:01:34 Yeah, I think it's always going to be a good thing. If you're open to it. Yeah. Cool. I love that. Thank you, Okay. Great. So, Abby, if people want to reach out to you, they want to connect with you. How do they do that?

1:01:48 That's the best way to do that. Do you have any questions? So my website Yeah, and please do reach out to me. My website is Yoga 15 15.com and you can e-mail me at abiyoga15.com and I'd love to hear from you. And I tried to answer any questions that you throw at me.

1:02:09 Any questions, any feedback is always welcome. We always welcome feedback on this podcast. Things you like, things, yeah. Things you like, things you didn't like. Any ideas, topic, ideas, or you want more of this or less of this or more of Abby or less of Michael. I don't know what you're going to say, but yeah, we're always open to feedback here.

1:02:26 So yeah, you can send it obviously to us at info@goingproyoga.com or Abby at yoga15.com, right? What about Instagram? Do you connect with people on? Instagram I do. Yoga 15 Abby. OK again. Yoga 15 Abby. ABI. Yeah, you can reach me on that as well. Cool.

1:02:44 We'll have all that in the show notes. So it's a quick and easy click Otherwise, Thank you so much, Abby, for taking the time to speak with me and to speak with our audience. I really really appreciate you. Yeah. It's been wonderful.

1:02:56 Thank you. Any final thoughts? Any final shares before we sign off? No, I think that's it. Amazing. All right, well, have a beautiful day, everyone. Thank you for listening, and we'll speak to you soon. Take care. All right.

1:03:09 Before you go, let me just tell you about the goingproyoga.com platform. So right now you can go to goingproyoga.com and check it out for free for seven days where you can actually learn more about yoga in the ways of alignment, queuing, sequencing, yoga, anatomy.

1:03:24 So that if you've done a 200 hour teacher training and you want to continue to learn, practice and grow, this platform is definitely for you. So I definitely suggest checking it out going proyoga.com right now. You can try it out for free for seven days.