Coping with Change and Uncertainty, with Dr. Brendan

0:00 Hey there, Before we get started on this week's episode, I would love to ask for your support by reviewing this podcast. We want to share yoga with as many people as possible and this free resource. This podcast is one of the ways that we can do that. And the best way that you can help support us is by giving us a review.

0:16 So if you go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever podcast platform you use, Scroll down until you find that star review and then give us some love. Thank you so much, and let's get started with this week's episode. Like some people have been brought up in a safe environment and their life was changing all the time, but their parents were able to regulate, help them regulate their nervous system and adapt to change. And those people actually love

0:42 change. But then probably, maybe more commonly there are it's that, say, you know, their parents were unpredictably available. Or maybe Dad would come home some days really angry and some days really sad. Sad or and occasionally happy other days, you know, for more dire cases, maybe there's food on the table, maybe there isn't.

1:05 So those are all, you know, uncertainties and possible changes. Or all of a sudden parents pick up and they go somewhere. And to those people, change is a profoundly fearful experience because it reminds me of those those times in their, you know, their childhood when they were really unsafe. Welcome to the Going Pro Yoga Podcast. If you love yoga as much as I do, then this podcast is for you.

1:32 We talk all things yoga related for teachers in order to supplement and complement and even support after a 200 hour Yoga teacher training. Or if you've never done a training before, this podcast is all about just learning more about yoga in an authentic way. Together with Paul Tioto and Byron De Marseille, we put together this podcast to provide you with a free resource to learn more about yoga.

1:53 Whether you want to share yoga or teach yoga or just practice yoga, this podcast is talking all things yoga related. And we're trying to talk from the teacher's perspective and also the student's perspective to make sure we get a full 360° angle on what yoga is all about and how it's evolved in the modern world. Welcome to our podcast.

2:11 OK Welcome back to the Going Pro Yoga podcast, Michael here. And today we have a guest joining us, my neighbor actually, and also friend, Doctor Brandon. Doctor Brandon. Brandon is going to introduce himself actually, but I'm going to just talk a little bit about him. I met Brandon probably about a year, little over a year ago. He was a participant in one of our 200 hour teacher trainings and he decided to stay in Bali and basically live here and he moved in as our neighbor, which

2:45 is exciting. So we've become friends and also like I say neighbors. And now we're going to be doing a podcast together. What about? Well, we're going to find out, but Brendan is a psychiatrist and he has his own practice, which he works basically somewhat remotely. I'm assuming before when you were in Australia, he was working in person as well, but I think it's best if you introduce yourself because I'm going to butcher it anyway. So, Brandon, welcome to the

3:15 show. Thank you, Michael. Great to be here. Perfect. Yeah, so I'm I'm a Kiwi originally and I've been on Australia since he went to uni and stayed on in Australia until recently and. Plenty of stuff in between. But yeah, I'm a psychiatrist and have a business which does.

3:39 There's a mental health platform or other practitioners operate and I operate there as a psychiatrist as well. And I also, I'm a child and adolescent and forensic especially as well. So I see, I guess young people involved with the legal system, typically about telehealth, but I do go and spend time in Australia as well.

4:01 And when I was in Darwin last year, I thought that I would follow up and do a yoga teach training. That's where I met yourself. Good choice. And here we are one year later. Took the plunge to spend a lot of my time here in Bali and pleasure to be your neighbor and you're brand new. I don't know if I call it complex here, but house and villa next to it, right?

4:26 Yeah. Well, it's exciting to have you as a neighbor. You're a very great neighbor, happy to have you here. So the episode today, first of all, you actually just started your own podcast. What's the name of that is? The self you seek.

4:39 The self you seek, which hasn't actually officially been launched yet, but it is coming soon for Doctor Brendan. So if you're interested to listen in to those episodes, just stay tuned. We'll we'll put the show notes in there so that at least your Instagram and stuff like that so people can follow along. But before we get into all that, today I was actually thinking, because the self you see, is a lot about change. Yeah.

5:05 Or at least first series. Yeah, the first series is about change. And actually, I've been thinking a lot about just the conversation about changing your mind. OK, Which I was actually going to just do a podcast by myself about changing your mind.

5:21 But since you're here, maybe we can just riff off each other and talk about it. So I'll just start saying some stuff and then we'll just see where the conversation goes. Sounds good. So when it comes to change in general, I mean there's lots of things that we can talk about.

5:37 So I like to give permission for people or I like highlight that changing your mind is actually a beautiful thing, right. And it's it's something that you can do very easily, but it's actually really difficult for people.

5:49 It's easy, but it's sorry, it's simple but it's not easy. It's probably the way to put it. In fact, I notice when I tell people like it's OK to change your mind about something, they're kind of like, oh, you're right, it is OK if I change by night or, you know, it takes them a second.

6:04 But they're like it's almost like they need to hear, like it's OK if you say something and then you, you know, 5 minutes later you don't agree with that anymore, right. So that slight change actually find is quite difficult for a lot of people. And you know, this can extend into more conversations about how change is difficult regardless across the board. But I always find it really interesting that whenever I give people permission to actually change their mind about something, it's very difficult.

6:32 And I'm sure it stems a lot in self worth and making making mistakes or seemingly or perceivably making mistakes where it's like you say one thing and then all of a sudden like if you don't stick with it then and you change your mind that it's like, oh, if you changed your mind then you did something wrong before or something like that.

6:52 I don't know if this is true or if there's anything that comes across in your work from something like this, but this is something that I find really interesting. So I'm constantly reminding myself and reminding other people, including you listeners that changing your mind is great. It's great.

7:08 Sometimes you say something like I'm going to do this and you know what? There's other elements to it, but I'm going to do this thing and you decide all of a sudden actually, I don't want to do that thing. And changing your mind is, is a beautiful thing.

7:21 You could even call it empowerment, right to some level. So in the yoga world, when we talk about power yoga or empowerment yoga, it's usually about offering choice and then telling people to do things. And you know, sometimes it can be as simple as OK, you know, holding plank or don't hold plank, you know, lower down to your belly or take chaturanga or don't take chaturanga.

7:43 And then sometimes I'll notice teachers, particularly Byron, who's not here right now, he'll say things like, oh, you can try this and if that doesn't feel good to you, just go back and change your mind, go to the other one again.

7:55 So these like little elements in a yoga class I actually find really empowering for people, but I think across the board and just any facet of life changing your mind can be quite tricky. Hugely tricky. And it's tied up in that thing we call the Ego course and when. People say they're going to do something and then all of a sudden they might realize that they need or want to change their mind.

8:22 There's that little person inside of us saying, but you're going to compromise your, you know, people might look down on you if you're going to change your mind or you know what's going to happen if you change your mind.

8:34 They're going to think of you as something different or you're going to make the wrong decision. Stick with it so it takes. Courage and a bit of a lessening of one's ego to change your mind often. And as you said, I like that sense of self worth.

8:46 If you've got a sense of self worth, it doesn't matter if you change your mind because you know it doesn't matter what other people think of you. You're just going off your own values now. This is not really something they teach us in, you know, Med school or psychiatry school or.

9:05 I'm guessing there's elements of psychology, probably in psychology training they might talk about it, but change as in itself is something that of course is happening all the time. Changing one's mind is a very personal thing, and we don't talk about it that much.

9:22 And there's not really like a a playbook on how to change your mind and what to do. It's it's found out by being a human in the real world and recognizing in those little moments where, oh. Probably could have just been a little bit less stubborn there. Or in the yoga context, you see it all the time. You know, someone's halfway into a crow pose and, you know, it's not their day.

9:43 They and they kind of fall over, but they want to give it another go, which is fine. Of course you can give it another go. But maybe you can also back off and just be, you know, recognize that today's not your day to nail that crop purpose and no one's going to really care at the end of the day. Yeah, so I.

10:01 So changing one's mind is a tricky topic. There's two things that came up for me with what you're saying. One of them was disappointing other people or the perception of disappointing somewhat. Like if you say you're going to do the same, but now people have an expectation, possibly, if that is relevant to whatever you're saying or, and therefore setting that expectation. If someone is expecting that and then melt and you change your mind, then there's an element

10:26 of, oh, I might have disappointed that person. So I'm sure there's something in there. And then there's another one as well that I was thinking about commitment. So when we commit to something, there's especially at least when I was growing up, there was a strong emphasis on when you commit to something, you see it through, you know. So I think that also is is deeply ingrained in a lot of people.

10:48 I don't know if there's people that can resonate with this. You're nodding, so I'm sure there's something there. But when you commit to something, it's like, you know, you stick it out, you go through it and there's a certain element of benefit there. You know, discipline and perseverance and stuff like where you could kind of push through a challenge. And I think the complicated aspect of this conversation is because changing your mind.

11:11 Why are we changing the mind? Like why are we changing the mind? Is it because I don't like this challenge and it's too hard? Maybe that's the reason. And maybe, maybe pushing through is the right answer or maybe not pushing through is also the right answer.

11:24 It really depends on that situation. So yeah, your really thoughts on that before I? Begin. I just want to. I think it is extremely complex and of course there's all sorts of reason. And when you're thinking about commitment, commitment is a valid reason to not change your mind, I think. But it's also you might also have a commitment to yourself to change your mind if you're not feeling it like someone asks you to, you know, go to a party and you agreed to go to it, and then all of a sudden you pull out.

11:55 Now how you pull out is really. You know, that's down to your ego, I think, and and being true to your values. So it can go either way. If you're pulling out because you just kind of a little bit don't want to and you've made a huge, you know, promise to this person that you're going to be there, you pulled out before, then arguably that's a bit weak.

12:17 But if you're the kind of person that always goes, you've made a commitment to yourself to be a bit more flexible and allow yourself to let other people down, then that's OK. But both require a bit of self reflection and thought, and A and A and a releasing of the ego.

12:32 And that I'm always right. And it might involve some pretty serious apologies. And also maybe we can get it right. Maybe next time your mind the other way, right? Yeah. So I guess when we change your mind, is there, is there an actual influence on other people that's not the factor to reflect on or consider? Yeah, I have like a funny example that I'll just talk about.

12:53 Like, especially driving around in Ubu, sometimes there's different ways to get different places and sometimes I'll commit to one way and then I'll be like I should have went the other way. And then it's like, well, I'm already this way. Should I turn around And this is changing your mind basically in a practical sense.

13:09 And I've been really challenging myself to like, I mean, I logically move through it really quickly. It's faster if I turn around now and go. But part of me is also feels conflicted because it's like, I'm already here. I've already committed to this.

13:22 I should just see it through here. So I actually find a little bit of resistance with actually just like changing my mind whenever I'm choosing a new path to go to whatever destination I'm going, for example. But in that situation, it doesn't affect anyone else.

13:36 So that's just me being like, yeah, you can change your mind or it's like, oh, I'm going to go to, I don't know, Hopefully this is not what you're scenario is, but I'm going to go to yoga and I decide I don't want to go to yoga anymore.

13:48 But like that's OK. Or you know, going to the gym and you say you don't want to go to the gym anymore or maybe you're not feeling well and you know it doesn't have an effect on other people. I think it's full permission there. At least that's what I think.

13:59 Absolutely. If it's, you know, it's all on you. It's just about you and the integrity to yourself and really you know what you're going through at the time. This relates a lot to. Decision making as well, which changing one's mind can't, no, can't be, you know, can be helpful or a bit of a hindrance sometimes. But your example about going through Urbud made me think of the indecision that people can have. Like say if you're asked where do you want to go out for dinner or what Netflix thing do you

14:28 want to watch. Sometimes you can spend. It's almost like changing your mind is actually better, but you need to commit to something in the first place. And if you commit to something in the 1st place, more than often than not you're just going to continue to do it.

14:45 But the more you you spend, like working out which place you can go to dinner or which, you know, Netflix, movie or series you're going to watch, the more likely you are to change your mind. So in that case, I think there is a clear recommendation to be a bit more decisive. If it really doesn't matter that much, do it and then give yourself permission Might very interesting. So the integrity to self there's there's something that came up whenever you mentioned that

15:16 because even though it's like you have permission to like not do it and change your mind it's great. But there's also another at least I don't think there's a way of proving this. Maybe you have some of the science behind this, but it's making commitments to yourself and breaking commitments to yourself and how the brain or the the nervous system kind of learns that behavior.

15:37 So for example, if I were to say, OK, I'm going to get up in the morning at 7:00 AM and I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to go to yoga, We'll talk about yoga, I'm going to go to yoga. And then, you know, I wake up at 6:45 and I'm just like, I don't know.

15:53 Then I just say hi. Maybe I'm not going to go. We all go another time. And then I just sleep in. I'm like, cool. I feel I've changed my mind. Cool, all right. But then I do that several times. You know, I think that actually hurts you. It hurts yourself integrity because you're you're you don't you start to not believe yourself. So then your truth or whatever thing that you say doesn't become true and it's it doesn't have any. Like your your word to yourself

16:22 is like it's weak if you will. And this is something that I used to talk about a lot before, whenever I would support people with like nutrition and exercise and stuff like that. Is your self integrity is actually, it's actually my #1 core value. And I'm always very cautious of what I say to myself because someone's always listening, right, Which is you, your mind, your nervous system, So you're subconscious if you want to go that far.

16:49 So that's yeah, something that I think is really interesting about self integrity. Yeah, very important. And it's. As you said, the more that you break it, the more like you you are to break it in the future because your word means less and less.

17:04 Kind of like aren't who threatens the consequence and then they, you know, the child steals the candy or whatever, and the consequence doesn't follow through. The child's going to steal the candy again. So it's no way to parent yourself.

17:17 The one caveat that I would put to that, and this is where really knowing one's personality and where I don't necessarily like to generalize to everyone, is that some people. Of they're too rigid with this stuff. So while I completely agree that probably for you and me we need to all our word most of the time, particularly when it's things about self integrity. There are some people that are so afraid to break the normal once they've said something.

17:45 They're so afraid to change their mind and they're so sort of rigid in their thought process that they need to be given the opposite the permission. No one is, you know, you're still a good person. If you don't go to the gym at 7:00 AM every morning for the next week, you know, some people are so harsh on themselves that they had this. Either they can't possibly meet their expectations, so they're setting themselves up for fail, or they have a personality that just needs a bit of flexibility

18:13 and they're going to be better off, you know, being a bit loose with themselves. So that's the only caveat. But I I completely agree. Integrity by and large, is very important. Yeah, it's a good point. It's a really good point. OK, cool.

18:26 So do you have any other thoughts about changing the mind? Changing the mind Then should we change the topic? We could probably talk about that next time with us. I It's interesting that you brought it up because it's not really an approach that we're taking in podcast, but I think changing one's mind.

18:50 Is something that we're being tested with every day because there's so many stimuli that are coming in. And what we deal with that is actually a very complex subconscious process. Oh, the one thing I want to mention is that changing your mind is something that's not very masculine. Like we're talked to, be decisive and once we do something we tell ourselves, if we don't follow through with it, typically, you know, we might tell ourselves that that's weak but or like flaky.

19:21 Flaky. Yeah. Or I don't. I'm actually thinking a really mature example like school school kid, like white or something. I'm going to fight that guy and then you know, don't don't back out and then that you know you're you're awake. That happens in sort of a more everyday example, you know, more adult example as well.

19:41 But we I think in a modern masculinity it is more. Masculine to actually have the integrity, the self worth and the understanding of your own ego to be able to change your mind when it's good for you and. The people around you ego again, Yeah, maybe we could talk about that then.

20:10 So what part of the ego do you think? Is it just the self worth? You think that's the main main culprit in the situation like that with changing mind or? Oh, actually something came up for me. Not to like sabotage the question, but.

20:25 A little struggling anyway, I said. Please is this is actually something that Amara has said before It was on the podcast episode. I don't know 100 and something. And she said that these like little agreements that we have with people like, but this comes back to just change in general. So like, we're talking about changing your mind, but you know we're going to morph this conversation whatever way it goes.

20:51 But having relationships with people, like there's a certain agreement that we have like, you know when we first met, you met me and we had this, you know, we were both in a particular place and we like, you know, we liked each other to the point where we became friends and neighbors and stuff like that.

21:04 But as we change as people, right, we change the things that we like to do. We change our habits, our behaviors, our interests and these types of things, then the relationship with people around you also changes, right. So it's kind of like, you know, we're we're all mostly yogis in this space. But like when we change and we grow, we notice that we, we tend to move or at least it seems like we're moving further away from some of our relationships.

21:31 You know, we might necessarily, not necessarily lose friends, but we don't relate with some of the friends that we used to relate with because of those agreements or those connections at what's was. Because as you change, it's like, oh, and and to me that's also an element of the fear of change is because if I change me, then I'm going to change everything else around me. And it's like, but I like some of these things, or at least I think I do so.

21:57 Yeah, change is a very it's very lighted to fear. And and then some people have a good relationship to change and some people have a very fearful relationship to change. And it's good to identify that because is it your fear that's holding you back from changing into something that you want or need to do or is it something that's actually more practical and a good reason? I don't.

22:24 I would suggest that in general, although fear is an emotion that can alert you to things that are important, often in our world we're not. So in your example. Am I not? Am I fearful of losing contact with this person because I'm going to upset them because I'm not going to get some benefit of like, hanging out with them as opposed to looking at from an angle of, you know, I actually need to move on from this person because there's, I've got other

22:55 areas that I need to grow in. They're going to be OK even if I don't and they don't like it. And so it's sort of about analyzing the fear and seeing if it's something that is really just a figment in your head or whether it's something that's more practical. Maybe fears are good.

23:11 So you know, for example, you might you know couples that are thinking about splitting up and they've got a child and one fear is that that's going to affect the kid. Obviously that's something that needs to be thought about in a lot of detail. Might be good either way, but that's sort of a. A a good fear if I were to put it that way, as opposed to an an unnecessary fear, right.

23:32 So that makes me think of like again, the brain and the nervous system. Because I am who I am and how the the brain and the the the the job of the brain is to keep us alive. It's survival. It's to protect us. Therefore, whenever we're doing things that are unfamiliar to the brain or new or different, there's a reaction that happens, which you know, you can call it anxiety, you can call it a level of an increase, level of stress or concern or fear or whatever it is.

24:08 It's basically that your body saying hey, this is new, proceed with caution type of thing. And sometimes I proceed with caution is a little bit more traumatic. But I think there's this innate intelligence in our body that is constantly trying to show a change and avoid change because of the fact that if we or our nervous system knows what's happening, that it feels safer. And that's what we That's a biological need, is safety, right.

24:39 So the brain is always constantly being like, I need to keep you safe. I need to keep you alive. So when new things are coming in or when change is coming into play in everyday life, there isn't. There's a neurological push away from that change, which is why it's so hard to step into the unknown or to, you know, change These change your mind, possibly in situation, maybe not change your mind, but making changes that are involving you needing to do something that's completely out of your comfort

25:07 zone. Yeah, and out of your comfort zone is out of your brain's comfort zone, out of the familiarity of your nervous system, even knowing what are we going to do in a situation like that? Yeah, and for some people. Often because of their upbringing changes particularly hard like some people have been brought up in a safe environment and their life was changing all the time but their parents were able to regulate help them regulate their nervous system and adapt to change.

25:34 And those people actually love change. But then probably, maybe more commonly there are it's that, say, you know, their parents were unpredictably available or. Maybe dad would come home some days really angry, and some days really sad, sad or and occasionally happy.

25:54 Other days, you know, for more dire cases, maybe there's food on the table, maybe there isn't. So those are all, you know, uncertainties and possible changes. Or all of a sudden parents pick up and they go somewhere and to those people. Change is a profoundly fearful experience because it reminds them of those those times in their, you know, their childhood when they were really unsafe.

26:16 And so those people are going to probably have a lot of reminders whenever something changed. They're in a relationship with a partner who all of a sudden says, oh, let's go, you know, move to another country and that just feels or they come home with a different mood and that all of a sudden that reminds them of the child when they feel really unsafe.

26:33 And that's where nervous system regulation in, say, yoga. And and adapting and understanding changes is extra important. Interesting. Yeah, obviously. Other considerations of life experiences triggers, if you will, yeah, unconscious memories. OK, so I think a lot of people is on that note. I think a lot of people come into yoga sort of half. They don't really consciously know this necessarily, but they know that they need this practice. Right.

27:05 Because they, you know, someone's dragged them along to a yoga class and all of a sudden they feel more peaceful than they did before, even though they might have done some things in that yoga class that was that was scary.

27:17 And what good yoga teachers will do is they provide, they provide the structure for an environment that is safe. So they'll they set up the room properly, they'll use the right language, they'll make it. Trauma informed new person comes into class all the time. They're relaxing, they get them to breathe. All that, that anxiety, or, you know, hyperarousal, or if you want to call it stress, dampens down. They do a hard physical practice and they feel as calm and happy as it ever been.

27:45 And they're hooked. And then, you know, next minute they're off coming to Bali doing teacher training, me. So I was thinking about kids, actually. I was thinking about routines. And then it made me think of kids because routine is not change.

28:04 It's what we always do. It's something, you know, routine is really important for children. I mean, it's important for everybody because, you know, coming back to the science of that, when we're doing things that are familiar, we're burning less calories, right?

28:19 We're using less energy because it's already familiar to our body. So the wiring in our brain already has like what we call neural pathways that are just, they're already kind of somewhat succinct, which is, you know, why we can do things basically subconsciously, like riding a bike and walking. You know, we don't have to think like left foot, right, foot left.

28:36 It's already kind of ingrained. Our neural pathways have kind of cleared the the, the path right. So it doesn't take a lot of energy or as much energy as it once did when we first learned that task or learned that thing. But anytime we're learning something new, that's a type of change, It's an unfamiliar thing. It requires a lot of energy, which is another reason why the brain avoids it is because it consumes a lot of energy and the brain's like, no, no, like we

29:03 need this energy for probably something else, survival. So kind of pushing that away. Anyhow, I digress to the children. I don't know if you'd know anything about this but I'm just going to throw it out there. But like, I know routine is super important for kids and I'm thinking it's because of a lot of the reasons we just said is because it helps them feel safe possibly.

29:26 And I don't know. Do you have anything to say about that at all? Yeah, it's definitely the case. And you'll notice that in some kids they're more resistant to change than others. Particularly you know the the most common one group of kids that are resistant to to change?

29:49 Children with who are on the spectrum, autism spectrum. Change is typically needed because to deal with, as you said, there's limited neurological resources. And so they're already just, you know, fighting to try and work out how to open the door or manage their emotions or, you know, eat dinner, whatever it is.

30:12 And if you create structure, it allows them to focus on the task at hand. I think particularly you're right, it is a a feature of safety I. I don't, I want to be honest, I can't actually think of the studies that I want to think of with the evidence behind it.

30:26 But I know the general principles of it here and that is that structure does allow, you know, it gives children a sense of safety and so they can concentrate on other things. But when you're always moving, particularly when it always changing, then it doesn't, you know, kids are kind of they're focusing on survival. I'm focusing on more higher order tasks that their brain are trying to to develop.

30:49 So that's why it can be very, very disruptive, yeah, especially for a growing brain and because everything's or most things are new, so that requires a lot of energy and you know what it's like when you're tired? Usually grumpy and irritable. And silently.

31:05 Silently like a kid. And so and yeah, when when you are feeling safe, because that's the the, the ultimate goal, right. When you're feeling safe, you're engaged in your parasympathetic nervous system or the rest and digest and when you're in that mode you're engaging the more complex parts of the human brain.

31:23 That's really important. And if you're always if the change or the lack of structure is involved with the, if it if it induces prolonged or or big sympathetic or what we call front or flight response. Then it directs the blood flow away from the parts of the brain that are involved with, say, emotion regulation or complex of them solving.

31:45 And that's when it becomes a bad idea. So a little bit of stress is good, You know, it's good to stress kids and get them to actually, you know, work hard at something. But if it goes too hard, too high, and their stress is, you know, off the charts and they're not really able to think, then you're not really promoting brain development. And so that's really the the theory I think. And routine creates a it creates a structure of safety, right? It controls the amount of stress

32:11 that they perceivably are taking on. That's right. So that can that can attack other other goals so they can handle it. So like you're staying around the stress line. That's manageable, basically. Yeah, cool. All right. So what else should we talk about with regards to change? I like this change conversation.

32:31 Yeah. Of you know, you have a whole series unchanged, so maybe there's somewhere else we can go, but I well. I'll point, I'll just, I'll talk about a little bit here that the the first series is called. I don't actually talk about this that much on the podcast, but it's called Recipes for Change for a reason.

32:45 It was actually what I was going to call a whole podcast originally. But the reason Recipes for Change came up is because everyone has different recipe and you got to find your own recipe. Like we could give you, you know, 10 recipes today on.

33:03 You know who's got the best spaghetti bolognese? But ultimately that's the eye of the taster or the beholder, right? So it's important when thinking about change to really think about what works for you. It's OK, you know, listen to podcast, get ideas, talk to friends, you know, if you need to make changes.

33:19 But also you do your own experiment and you would have already gone through a lot of changes, so you would have you need. It's really about people. We give people ideas, different recipes that they can try out. And I think it's a very, the point is, is that it's a very personal experience. Yeah.

33:36 And maybe I can ask you, Michael, any any big changes in, in your life that you've been dealing with or thinking of dealing with big changes even small or medium, probably probably I'm going to get knee surgery that's kind of a change.

33:58 Yeah, but I've already had knee surgery before, so I don't know. It's somewhat familiar, so I do feel somewhat. What about when you the whole year? I feel like it's probably been a bit of an adventure. Like you've created your you. You, you built a house here in Bali. You know you're a boy.

34:19 We can go there. You're a homeowner and and all like, it's a pretty crazy experience and so you've gone from someone that. You know, you're investing in another country and you're taking responsibility for that and you're taking responsibility for your dream life.

34:34 You know, it's a it's an amazing thing. And I I I wonder what sort of stresses have been involved with that and how you've managed that change. OK, yeah, I've never really thought of it that way. I think I'm getting really comfortable with change and maybe that's a good thing. But yeah, I mean, I've been living in Bali for six years, but we built a house.

34:54 I think most people know that. If they didn't know that we built a house, we also built a villa beside it, and that's where Brendan lives. And we moved in since February and the whole process of doing that in a country that is, it's familiar for six years. But there's a lot of things here that I, you know, you're learning as you're as you're going and building a house and fixing things that need to be fixed within the first year. Like there's a lot of challenge,

35:22 stress and things. So it's basically adapting to the change of culture, if you will. And those changes elicit a lot of frustration. And also I just, I always typically go back to compassion and empathy for the differences that I'm unfamiliar with.

35:45 So the culture here and just the way things are done and instead of judging it and you know, I mean I do judge it, but like I judge it for a moment and then I'm like, OK, this is the way things go here. How do I, how am I going to respond or how do I need to behave in these situations to adapt because you know, I can't come here and bring my boule Western Canadian perspective. I mean I can but also I need to be mindful of like that's sometimes these things are just

36:12 not done here. So those types of changes are actually. I talked to my therapist about because of, for example, I had a session with her about incompetence and how whenever I'm not, I'm not often, but there's moments where I'm when I'm surrounded by what I perceive to be incompetence, kind of really like it like hurts me a bit. And then?

36:40 Grites you? Yeah, it greets me. It makes me kind of be like like how are you not getting, you know, like what you know? And anyhow, my therapist helped me realize, yeah, like, what is incompetence? Incompetence is just so much they just don't know Jeff most of the time. Most of the.

36:56 I mean, there's a level of incompetence where it's like deliberately being, you know, not competent. But I think what she was highlighting is like oftentimes incompetence is misperceived as something bad, when usually it's the person just doesn't know they don't know any better.

37:12 There were no the competence level that you're expecting, for example. So that's really fairly relevant here in Indonesia because you know those things are done differently here. So I now have a lot of compassion and patience for the fact that I think you know, people don't know or at least this is what I do.

37:35 I assume this now or I give the benefit of the doubt and then I just try to be more clear and what my desires are, what where my wants are. And if something doesn't get happened the way you know, I would expect it to happen or what I thought was going to happen.

37:48 I don't blame it on the incompetence, I blame it on, oh, maybe I wasn't clear enough. Maybe I need to actually be more specific because I innately believe or I believe that everyone is innately capable and are all also willing to probably learn under the right circumstances, feeling safe and feeling like, OK, this person's, you know, they want something and it's my job to help them. And if they're going to be aggressive and like, oh, I wanted this and you didn't do

38:14 this, they're not going to really want to support me. Right. But if I say, oh, you know, OK, this is what happened. And, you know, I was actually hoping for something like this, is it OK if we can change it to be something like this? You know, You know, I must not have been clear before. So, you know, I understand.

38:34 But can we still do it this way? And is there anything that do you understand? You know, anything like I'll actually say like, do you understand? And sometimes I'll actually have to bring a translator in my assistant, which will help with that, which oftentimes there is a language barrier in those types of situations.

38:47 So yeah, I guess the biggest change for me is in the last year has just been adapting to the culture and trying my best to not get frustrated or annoyed or allow my triggers to overpower the fact that, you know, I'm still working with other humans who are innately still doing their best.

39:09 Yeah, yeah. I mean it's it's wonderful to be able to manage it. And I I know note earlier on there you said that you feel like you are dealing with change well and just from enable the observer perspective that would be the case. And there's been, you know, little hiccups with the building here and there and it's all just happens like you don't lose your call, it'll happen all happens pretty smoothly or or eventually.

39:32 And I'm curious about whether that's something that you've developed through a practice or because you've been a, you know you've lived in different places like Australia and here and or is it something that you know you've just got because you've always been a pretty chill guy. I mean they are pretty chill.

39:53 My yeah, I've always been pretty laid back. That's so I I probably have some. A bit of a good foundation or a good kit, let's just say. But I think a lot of the work that allows me to be accept, accepting change or be, you know, managing change or difficulties or stresses you know can all be the same synonym, if you will, to some level.

40:20 Is just constantly working on myself and realizing that whatever thing that might be bothering me or causing a disturbance in my nervous system, you know, and This is why I just did a podcast last week or two weeks ago about the nervous system. And you know how if we become more aware of where we are in our nervous system arousal state, if it's like hyper aroused or hypo aroused, then we can help ourselves. So what I typically do and this might be helpful for a lot of listeners is, you know, if you

40:52 haven't listened to that episode, definitely listen to that one. I think it's 112 nervous system and how to deal with nervousness and overwhelm I think is what it's called. But either way, just recognizing, and this is what I do, I recognize whenever I don't feel like I'm in my optimal zone of my nervous system, like I'm a little bit anxious or I'm feeling a little bit stressed or I'm feeling a little bit low, I'm kind of out of sorts, you know? And and everyone has their own

41:16 definition of what that is. But you're just not feeling your best, if you will. And when I am there, I I try to see, is there something that actually, like, triggered that around me? Was it a person? Was it an event? Is it a thing?

41:29 Usually it's like people or something or behaviors that happen around me. So now what I do is I, I write them down, put them on my phone. And I just like, hey, so this is the thing that I'm noticing I'm being annoyed by or it's frustrating me or I just don't. I'm like, you know, or I just, there's just something that's off.

41:47 I'll write it down and I'll just keep keep track of those things. And then I mean I do bring them to my therapist and talk to her about it. I'm like oh so this came up and she helps me like talk things through. But oftentimes a lot of it is relating to the same stuff, you know, and not to go bring this podcast all into, you know, the core conditions or core traumas that we all face universally.

42:09 I don't even know if that's a thing or not. But just like you know it's always relating to like self worth or making mistakes or perfectionism or not feeling wanted or loved at particular times when you're a child and how that relates back to certain situations or feeling threatened or not feeling safe. It's all really stems back to the same stuff. So I don't want to say it's simple, but whenever I keep track of it, it becomes simple and it allows me to to to not judge myself in those moments

42:43 and be like, oh, OK, so that's why I act that way or that's why I get annoyed in those situations. And you know, I can't necessarily help myself. I definitely need to talk to people to let you know special, particularly professional or therapist to help me kind of like work through and kind of get an emotional release if you will then also be replacing some of the language in my subconscious. But at the same time, it really helps to make me feel empowered to kind of keep track of like

43:09 what are the things that are bothering me because it makes me feel responsible for my own life. So it changes come my way. I feel more equipped to be able to handle it because if I get annoyed or triggered or would you say graded or something like that, then I can just be like, OK, what is that? What is it about this situation or this change? That is that I have a problem with as opposed to just being like I have a problem with this, I don't like this. It's like, OK, well why don't I

43:35 have? It's kind of being curious. It's like self curiosity, you know, why do I have a problem with this? Why is this bothering me? And that's what I focus on. I don't focus on the thing itself that makes. Sense it does. It does, yeah. I'm also guessing that.

43:49 Those process, those times of reflection, probably all a bit after the moment. Least it happens for me. I get really annoyed about something. My level of insight in that moment is pretty low, and it generally happens later if I'm just having a moment to myself or you're in the shower or just chilling out, like looking out at the sunset or something. And then all of a sudden I'm like, yeah, I didn't handle that very well.

44:13 I was annoyed because I didn't ate, or I was annoyed because they actually said this and that annoyed me and that, well, I yeah, whatever it was. I don't find that those moments tend to happen on the go like the times are.

44:26 No, Yeah, there's definitely a window of time that usually passes by. Admittedly, like, it's gotten a lot better for me because I've been doing this for, I don't know, a while, but I do remember where it was just like, you know, something happens and, you know, the nervous system gets fired up. And not to go too much into it, but obviously there's changes that happen in your brain and those emotional centers are being fired and your resources or your connection to your resources of the logic and

44:55 understanding kind of fizzle away a little bit. So it's harder for you to kind of reflect in those moments, but the more that I've practiced and worked at it, the now the easier that the the smaller those windows get, right.

45:11 This is something that Paul says often with regards to meditation is it's it reduces the windows of of stress or suffering in life, right, Because you can find moments to find stillness and stuff like this. So I think that the more that I've done this self reflective thing, I'm able to catch myself a little bit sooner every time. You know, who knows, maybe it was like 24 hours, 48 hours and like, you know, over a couple of years it's gone down to. I don't know what it is now.

45:39 Maybe a couple hours every once in a while I'll catch myself with something and I'm like, huh, I don't even know what it is in the moment, but I'm just like, I'm annoyed. But like you're saying I'll reflect later in the shower, like what was that about? Like what?

45:52 There must have been something there and I don't necessarily need to figure it out in that moment. I just write it down. Anyway, I'm annoyed because of this, this incompetence thing or I'm surrounded by entitled people. Like that's actually one of the ones I wrote like recently. It's like entitled people like bother the shit out of when someone's really entitled.

46:11 Especially being in like Indonesia where there's a lot of Western expectations and Indonesian people who are reverse very kind and you know, they just their their culture. And then I see the entitlement of just like it really tweaks me a little bit. So I wrote that down in the moment, but I don't understand why, or at least not yet.

46:32 So yes, I agree there's it's difficult in moments where especially when you're getting really triggered or aggravated or annoyed or frustrated or whatever emotional pattern comes up for you. But I think it's a good practice as best as you can to take note of it and try not to push it away. And I think the hard part is, before you say something, is to not judge ourselves at those moments. Because that, that's why I find is the hardest thing for a lot of people and for myself and

46:59 particularly. But that's probably one of the most healing things that I've done, is not judge myself when I'm feeling those things and recognizing also that those things are my responsibility. And that's when I start to write it down newly. Yeah, not so.

47:14 So I think it's great that you've been able to share that and I think really a process that people could identify with and learn from. And just because it's a, it's a yoga podcast. My interpretation of why one of the reasons why yoga and meditation is so good is because. You are constantly going to that edge where you're just about to go over into, say, sympathetic drive or you're something that's really uncomfortable.

47:38 Or you can be, you know, being in some sort of twist or some sort of difficult pose that's that's an agitation. It's a physical agitation. But what you're doing then is you're constantly practicing just bringing yourself back from the edge of that agitation into a state of relaxation and real realizing that actually everything's OK And I think.

47:59 The more that you practice that, that's what that practice within yoga, meditation actually helps you reduce that that time lag. Because what you're trying to do throw the time between annoyance and reflection, basically. And what you're trying to do is eventually get to the place where you are constantly watching yourself and you have, you know, ultimate awareness of your emotions. Now, I'm certainly not like that. Most people are not, but the goal is to sort of get closer to that awareness and that allows

48:30 us to be more adaptable and more self reflective and then handle tricky situations easier and not not not reactive things that you know turn on our sympathetic nervous system. So that's how Yoga Pages lives, basically, basically.

48:48 Yeah, that's my take on it. Football is on it. Do not challenges you just enough near the the line if you will, but also the space the teacher connecting with the reconnecting with the breath allows you to bring you back.

49:02 So you're always hovering around this challenge, or, you know, depending on the class of course, but you're hovering around that challenge line. Well, if you think about basically, you know, other than just the types of yoga where pure restorative, what you're doing, just lying down even that actually every type of yoga has an element of discomfort.

49:19 So it might be more hot yoga where the heat is a discomfort. Or it might be. In Arsenal where just sitting at your joints might hurt or it might be a very still pose where it's actually uncomfortable to be still because you've got different thoughts coming up. And when we're when we are still all sorts of negative thoughts coming up so it doesn't really matter what it is. You just get into a place of being uncomfortable and then re comforting yourself through

49:44 different practices as you said, like breathing or just giving it time because ultimately you can always bring yourself back to a point of. Being in control of it, seeing it from a third you know person perspective, being more relaxed state of mind and that's where you gain control over yourself and and and increase your awareness.

50:07 So it all comes back down to safety. We just want to feel safe. Yeah, regardless of it's changed. Yeah, being triggered all the stuff to safety. Yeah, kind of the same thing with money. What is money? What is? Safety. Listen, right? Then it's like we want money, but what do we really want? We want 60.

50:27 Safety and fun and fun, Yeah. Oh yeah, that's true. Money does provide. Well, yeah, it's easier to have fun with money, it's true. Well, for some people, you just roll her out of the mud. That's fun for some people, and for other people it's. Oh, for sure.

50:41 It's not an excuse, right? That's fine. Now I hear you. Cool. That was fun. We're about 50 minutes in. We kind of water out a few places. But yeah, mostly about change and changes in the brain and just changes in behavior and integrity and stuff.

51:00 So yeah, a lot of great things in this conversation. Do you feel complete? Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up? I feel. We've talked a lot and very conceptual, but I. You know, that comes and it comes naturally sometimes, but also whenever I say something like that, I'm also like, you know, I'm struggling with this stuff every day. Like change is hard.

51:31 I've made some big changes in my life. I get annoyed with people, but it's great just turning up in conversation like this and sort of incrementally coming a little bit better. Oh, yeah. Thanks for having me on and having this little exploration.

51:46 I really appreciate it. Yeah, no worries. That makes me think like, well, I want to ask you the same question you asked me, which was what are some some big changes that you're going through right now that you'd like to share?

52:01 What isn't changing as I do the podcast? Because it's like, you know, four years ago I was in Sydney, you know? Practicing full time psychiatry in a different relationship and and here I am in in Bali most of the time, you know in a business working part time and on various projects in a different relationship.

52:31 Many new friends, some less friends, and I'm just working day-to-day, I suppose. And there's no point where I'm I'm, I don't have a point where I'm getting to other than just trying to enjoy every day. And that's a mix of, that's probably been a big change actually instead of having when you go through when you become a doctor, many people think of it before they leave high school. And then once you're in Med school, you've really got your pathway laid out for you

53:02 depending on the pathway you take for. The next 10 to 15 years until you become a specialist and you know, that can determine where you live, who you hang out with, your date, you know, spending so much time with the hospital or in specially training. I was, you know, I suppose I was more of a destination person without realizing I wanted to become fresh Med school, become a specialist and eventually became a psychiatrist. And of course, as I get along

53:28 and entered it, then you realize, you know, it's not not a unique story, but you get there and you're like actually that happy. And so even though I've got a lot of good things going, I have plenty of times and I'm not that happy. So now, nowadays, I'm really trying to shift that focus to enjoying the journey.

53:50 And that tends to be about things like connection, getting daily exercise, eating well, doing things that are fun. And so it's hard for me to kind of put the brakes on. And and it isn't, it has been tough for my ego, but I feel overall like that's leading to something positive.

54:11 So that's really been probably the change of mindset. But that's led to a change in the way I live my life. Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Thanks for asking. Change is hard. It's simple, but not easy. The way to say it? Something like that.

54:31 Yeah, wait a minute. It's going to happen. It's just how it happens. Yeah. Yeah. OK, great. So, yeah, I think we'll wrap it up and thank you, Doctor Brendan. And we'll, we'll put your Instagram, the show notes. You also play Violet, Violet in nature, which is an Instagram thing as well.

54:51 So you kind of do like inspiring little messages captions there. How would you describe that? Yeah, I need to get more active on that one. That was really just a fun little side project because it was fun playing violin outside in a beautiful country, wherever I go.

55:05 And I wanted to play a bit more. But yeah, that one is at Violin in Nature. And my other Instagram is it's Doctor Brendan ITSDRBRENDAN. And that's where podcast notes and various links will be put up. Yeah. And we'll put that at the show notes for people to connect with you otherwise.

55:24 Thanks so much. A pleasure. Thank you to all of you for this thing and lending your ear for the last hour or so. If you're still with us. And if, as always, if you have any questions, you can reach out to us at podcast@goingproyoga.com.

55:41 And yeah, we'll speak to you next week. Take care. All right. Before you go, let me just tell you about the going proyoga.com platform. So right now you can go to goingproyoga.com and check it out for free for seven days where you can actually learn more about yoga in the ways of alignment, queuing, sequencing, yoga, anatomy.

56:03 So that if you've done a 200 hour teacher training and you want to continue to learn, practice and grow, this platform is definitely for you. So I definitely suggest checking it out going proyoga.com right now. You can try it out for free for seven days.