The Five Elements of Wellness: Chinese Medicine for a Balanced Life (Part 1) with Jaclyn Keoh

0:00 Hey there, before we get started on this week's episode, I would love to ask for your support by reviewing this podcast. We want to share yoga with as many people as possible and this free resource, this podcast is one of the ways that we can do that. And the best way that you can help support us is by giving us a review.

0:16 So if you go to Apple podcast or Spotify or whatever podcast platform you use, Scroll down until you find that star review and then give us some love. Thank you so much, and let's get started with this week's episode. We're going to constantly learn, we're going to constantly be in flux. This ultimate health goal is a moving target. And with that, of course, there are periods of time where we feel great, when we feel like there's a great stretch of harmony and balance.

0:44 But if we slowly tip out of that, that's also OK if we have the tools and the people and support around us to come back to balance. So I see especially people who are really struggling and I really feel for them. They're like, I just want to feel good.

0:59 And then there are people who are really aware and they're fine tuning. And then sometimes I get asked a question, is this ever going to end? I was like, no, this is our journey, you know, our health journey. Everything is a constant moving target. Sometimes we get the bullseye, sometimes we're nearly there, but not quite.

1:17 And it's a constant trial and error. And we should be really compassionate with ourselves through throughout the process of trying to find harmony and balance. Welcome to the Going Pro Yoga podcast. If you love yoga as much as I do, then this podcast is for you.

1:36 We talk all things yoga related for teachers in order to supplement and complement and even support after a 200 hour yoga teacher training. Or if you've never done a training before, this podcast is all about just learning more about yoga in an authentic way. Together with Paul Teodo and Byron De Marseille, we put together this podcast to provide you with a free resource to learn more about yoga, whether you want to share yoga or teach yoga or just practice yoga.

2:01 This podcast is talking all things yoga related and we're trying to talk from the teachers perspective and also the students perspective to make sure we get a full 360° angle on what yoga is all about and how it's evolved in the modern world. Welcome to our podcast.

2:15 Welcome everyone to the Going Pro Yoga podcast. Michael here at your house and I'm excited today. We have a special new guests joining us and actually I don't even know your last name. Kyo, Jaclyn. Kyo. Jaclyn Kyo OK, so Jaclyn Kyo is here to join us. And a trained acupuncturist or Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine doctor, technically. OK, technically air quotes was existing there, in case you were wondering.

2:42 And I'm excited to have you on here because I'm so curious and interested about Chinese medicine. I've started buying books and like I'm reading about it, but like it's such a it's such a vast thing. One of the books I have, I think it's like 700 pages.

2:56 It's insane. And we've had a previous Jessica guest come on Persia Juliet and she talked about the five element theory and that's about episode 115 if you're curious a little bit about that. So we might crossover a little bit there. But today we kind of just going to dive in to see what kind of comes up, maybe talking a little bit more specifically about a few of those elements just to kind of, you know, extend our knowledge a little bit more based off of what was talked in the previous one and whatever

3:24 else kind of comes up. You know, some of the things, for example, when I was reading one of these books, and I think it's a familiar thing. It's like the yin Yang theory, which is such a simple thing, but I also think it's very profound at the same time. So I'm curious to see where it goes and we'll see where it goes.

3:37 But before we do all that. Yeah, Before we do all that, let's get to an opportunity to get to know you a little bit. So first of all, I met you. Oh God, probably like, Oh my, probably like a year ago. A year. Yeah, it must be one year now. Yeah, a year ago, I think, I don't know how you were referred to me, but basically I came to you as a patient and you kind of like did your whole little thing with me and checking me out and I was like basically burnt out

4:02 at that time and. A little, yeah. The energy level was a little low. You were noticing some things, which I don't even know how to explain what you're noticing, but you helped me kind of like recognize some irregularities or some imbalances that needed to be kind of sorted. So I've been on and off kind of coming to see you, and that's basically been our relationship.

4:21 And then I was excited. And I've been talking about the idea of having you come in and just kind of share some of the stuff that you know. Yeah, so here you are. And I'm pretty stoked about it. So beyond that, maybe we can take a few minutes just to get an idea of like, where you're from, you know, your background, these types of things, so we can get to know you a little bit more.

4:37 What do you think? Absolutely. Let's do it. Cool. So I'm a reformed accountant. I have a commerce degree. It was the first thing that popped into my head to do mainly to please my parents, I have to say straight out of school.

4:52 But working in that business environment has definitely put me in, I guess, better in a better position to help run my business, Tau Medicine, which is exclusively based here in Bali at the moment. My business partner, Alex, he started the company and I joined in August 2022, I think.

5:16 Yeah. And since then, one of the, I guess, foundations of why I decided to join Tau Medicine versus starting something for myself was this desire to make health accessible for everybody. And that was, I guess one of the main reasons why I decided to do my yoga teacher training in 2013. Quit accounting completely, started that, fell in love with the yoga philosophy.

5:48 I think that's what really resonated with me. And then I had an opportunity to visit a, or say, a master of Chinese medicine while I was in Kuala Lumpur. And he checked my pulse and had his daughter there translating because unfortunately I don't speak Mandarin.

6:06 But he said to me, it's just like, you must get off birth control. And I was like, Oh my God, how in the world could he feel that from my pulse? And being grown up Malaysian, Chinese, there's a little bit of that. Some could say that it's in my blood. So they're philosophy, Taoist, Buddhist sort of philosophy really resonated with the yoga philosophy. And after that particular instance, I was like, I enjoy solving puzzles, I enjoy teaching, I enjoy travelling the world, but I feel like there is

6:44 a curiosity there's. He really touched me literally and figuratively, as to how somebody could see that in me after just touching my pulse and maybe being in the room with me for like a minute. Wow. Yeah. So super profound.

7:00 And that's what kicked off my studies in Melbourne in Australia for five years in the Southern School of Natural Therapies. And then it's just been this ongoing journey as you know as a health practitioner, that the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know, you don't know much at all, or there's plenty more to learn if you want to look at it that way. Yeah, your thirst just gets bigger. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

7:26 And it's so I had a feeling that you were talking about Persia before. And Persia, I actually used to live in Sydney for a while, and she was one of my favorite yoga teachers. Oh, really? And then I turned up here and radiantly alive years ago.

7:41 And I was like, no way, that's her. And when I moved back to Bali last year, I turned up at a class in alchemy. And I was like, no way, she's there. And then, you know, more and more the synchronicities start to happen, especially here in, in Uber. And I was super excited, still super excited to be here. Yeah.

8:01 That's great. So are you from Melbourne? Yes. OK yes, born in Penang in Malaysia but moved over to Melbourne when I was 2, so Australian. Yeah, Australian. Yeah, Aussie. Aussie cool and you've been living here since you said 2000. Yeah, So I had a stint here in 2016 and 2017 where I was living mostly on Ghili Air or Ayer if I'm speaking Indonesian properly, and was teaching yoga and doing my dive master certification there for for fun.

8:34 And then I guess being, I won't say stranded on a tropical island, but it's quiet. It's a completely different experience from living in a big city. I felt like I needed to, I don't know, use my mind in a different way to be exposed to more things and more opportunities to, I guess I had to say, like, spark my curiosity and love for learning again. Wow.

9:02 Yeah. OK, cool. I'm learning so much. You know what? I didn't even know you did a teacher training. This is the first time I'm here at or maybe maybe you mentioned it before, but I'm like that's cool. And you've taught yoga for a bit of time as.

9:14 Well, yeah, yeah. So God from finished in 2014. So I was teaching yoga up until I moved back here in 2023. More so yin yoga and meditation versus the vinyasa ashdanga. But we've definitely been there and done that. But I found that I guess while I was doing finishing off my masters, that I definitely needed to also tap into that yin and meditation side of things, even in my teaching as well as, you know, in my spare time. OK, super cool.

9:50 So okay, wow, I have so many questions now on where to go. So this profound experience that you had that basically sparked the interest to learn more, more specifically into, you know, Chinese medicine and diving into that.

10:03 And then now my understanding of you having learned or studied yoga and then also teaching yoga, did those worlds kind of interact for you a little bit like? Yeah, absolutely. Elements of like as you're studying and learning and like applying it to your teaching style, for example. Yeah, for sure.

10:19 So having done a yin yoga training and falling in in love with the five elements and the whole concept of yin and Yang, doing my Chinese medicine degree definitely gave me much more depth. And, you know, you know, something, you know, theoretically, but then actually, I don't know, learning in a way that you can actually feel that I think the word like, what is it congruence or something like that, or your ability to oh God, I can't take a look at body. Yeah.

10:55 And body. Exactly. And yeah. So it's definitely, there are many, many similarities. I'll say I believe Buddhism, you can correct me if I'm wrong, stems from Hinduism and they're even in the way that Ayurveda and my understanding of Ayurveda sees their medicine is that we are gifted with a certain constitution from our parents, but also coming from this universe, the days, the elements all come into play as to what we are more predisposed to being as as a human.

11:32 And of course our experiences has an effect on that as we as we grow. But from the day we're born, we're going to be predisposed to to certain things. And then the idea of harmony and balance I think is what and non duality is the common three things that I see between Ayurveda and and Chinese medicine.

11:57 Interesting so the the non duality or the the balance that kind of makes me think about the yin and Yang. And I was reading a book, I think it's called Something about Web. It's a Chinese medicine book. The web that has no weave. That's the one, yes, that's the one. And I started reading that with my friend Anon who who lent it to me.

12:17 And I was just kind of going through the the yin Yang theory and just kind of stuff. And like, you know, people generally understand the yin and the Yang and the sign. It's like going it's two opposites and stuff like that.

12:26 But I was kind of diving into it more and they're using more examples and I just thought it was really fascinating so I could speak to it. But I'd love to hear what your thoughts are, a little bit about the yin Yang and kind of going into like beyond just the superficial, what it is and what it means. Yeah.

12:41 So ideally the symbol of yin and Yang is a moving one, right? What we see, it's static and we see the direct opposition of black and white. But if I can compare it to night and day, everything is in constant flux. Everything is moving in its own, you could even say rules and and rhythms that are determined by nature.

13:07 And when things are in harmony, this idea of black and white are balanced as we see it in the static form. But with certain lifestyles, certain predispositions, we can say that, you know, we are easily thrown out of balance and you know, hopefully is easily put back into balance.

13:29 The one thing that I find really poetic and love about yin Yang theory is that one cannot exist without the other. One is not good, one is not bad because for there's something to be good, there has to be bad. And then that's one aspect the that's. Actually, the thing that's like, yeah, that thing is that's like a big switch in my brain.

13:56 It's like love and hate. Yeah. And, you know, anything that is has like, a duality of like two sides to it. It's like they're almost the same because one can't exist without the other. And to me, that was just like a such a profound download.

14:10 Yeah. So to speak. Yeah. I was hoping you're going. To start with that one, yes, yes. The other thing that I've definitely picked up more throughout the the study deeply of the medicine is that being like predisposed to certain things, some of us are more young, some of us are more yin in the very, very general sense.

14:36 Men are more young in nature, women are more yin in nature. But we need like night and day. We need there to be daytime and there to be, we'll say, a favourable amount of daytime to bloom into night time yin. So I guess the first thing that pops into my head is that when women are bleeding, we're in our yin time. If there isn't enough yin, if there isn't enough blood, then that substance doesn't have enough form to transform into young, which is the time where

15:20 we're leading up to ovulation, for example. So when we look at a women's cycle, which is just so perfectly follows the yin and Yang symbol, we don't just look at, oh, here's how much, like how many days you're bleeding, except etcetera. Some of the time we don't bleed enough, not because we don't have enough blood or yin because we don't have enough young warmth energy to be able to move into that cycle of yin. So the constant transformation and the delicate balance it takes for yin to turn nicely

15:55 into young, young to turn nicely into yin, will say, is also another another beautiful thing about it. Wow. OK, so you know what that makes me think of? I mean, first of all, here in Bali, we're very fortunate. We're close to the equator.

16:10 Day and night is pretty close to 12 hours. Yeah, year round back in Canada and I'm sure lots of other places in the world in the Northern hemisphere and I'm sure the Southern hemisphere. Yeah. In the middle of winter, you're like, you wake up and it's dark until like, you know, 8:00 AM and then it's dark again at 4:30. So you're lucky if you get like 9 hours of daylight. So do you think that that has a play on the overall bodies? Let's just say, you know,

16:40 sleeping patterns and the flow of that and hormones and stuff, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But then I mean, we could also break that down into seasons which are more yen and seasons which are more young. But I definitely am the first person to admit that I suffer from depression when there's not enough sunlight or I find the change of seasons quite difficult sometimes throughout for my for my constitution, which is why I think I landed

17:10 up, landed here where there's much more consistency. It's whether hot and raining or hot and humid or hot and a little bit drier. But I like the consistency, right? But yes, having said that, you know, like, your mood will change for sure in winter time where it's like, OK, it's dark. Technically I'm supposed to be, you know, a little bit more cozy coming down a little bit earlier versus, you know, sometimes I guess during summer it's the opposite, where you might have sunlight until like 9 PM or even

17:41 later. It's just super confusing. Yeah, I went home in July for just to visit my family. We were like camping and stuff. And just like, you're hanging out outside, like there's no clocks around and you're just like, OK, cool, you know? And like, what time is it?

17:55 Like it's 9:45 PM and you're like, what the fuck? It's still sun out. And it's like, I'm usually in bed at like 9. What's, you know, my body's all confused. Yeah, but yeah. I can also understand, I think Persia made reference to this that like the seasons also are kind of like a flowing as well.

18:09 So like the summer, longer days are kind of preparing you for the winter and the winter shorter days are preparing you, you know, as the seasons kind of progress. Yeah, exactly. And if you, you know, happen to be in that environment for years and years, our body definitely can adjust and react climate if if you change things.

18:27 But our bodies love rhythm. And definitely, like in summertime where the sun is out, we are feeling quite energetic, quite, you know, wanting to go out and socialize. And then during that time, like we'll guess spring probably more than anything else, or we're starting to harvest to be able to prepare for hibernation in winter, if we're talking that, yeah, that side of the world. Yeah, yeah.

18:54 Cool. So, yeah, coming back to the the yin Yang, the balance between two and and and the need for one in in order for the other one to exist. And then also the symbol itself. I know that maybe you will remember this, but like the fact that it has the black and the white and there's a white dot and a black dot in opposites.

19:12 I forget why that is. Can you educate me? Yeah, because there's always a seed of one in the other. There is no absolute black, absolute white, absolute yin or absolute young. The only time, maybe just for a moment in time, if we're speaking about Taoist philosophy or theory, is that when we are born, the most young action and then when we die, the most yin action in our in our lives.

19:41 But if you didn't have any young within yin, then the other can't survive. Really. Yeah. So that's the idea behind it. That's cool. Awesome. All right. And then when it comes to the seasons or the elements, I know we've already kind of talked on that before in the previous episode.

20:01 So we'll try, we'll try not to go too much into like explaining the seasons again, but maybe we could kind of dive into, unless there's something else that comes up for you, maybe dive into like one of the seasons a little bit in depthly.

20:12 So let's do a quick little recap actually, seasons and elements. Why don't we do that? All right, it also depends on how 1 looks at the the five element cycle, but we'll go with this one for the moment. I do have a question as you're kind of making little notes and it's kind of relating to the crossover of whether it be philosophies or teachings like Ayurveda, for example, in the constitution of Pita Vata and Kafa, which we haven't spoke to a lot on this podcast before.

20:43 But I think some people are familiar with the constitution of, you know, we're all, we're all water, but we as you know, there's elements of our Pita fire, elements of our Kapha Earth and elements of our air Vata and then there's elements of Chinese medicine. Do those crossover?

20:58 Is that a separate thing? Like do you have any comments on that? I would do my best and people can correct me if I'm wrong later, but when we are born, I believe this is also the same with Ayurvedic astrology as well. But we are more of one.

21:18 We are, you know, there's an element of each, but we are more of one or two. And then we, I guess, go out, go through our lives trying to make sure that stays as balanced as possible. Yeah, that's right. I, I can speak to that for sure. Yeah, use.

21:34 I mean the the. IT would be really nice if we're 1/3 of each. I mean, that's perfect. Time because then you would be in a nice harmony. Yeah. But the reality is usually there's one that's more favored. Like I'm predominantly Kapha, even though my frame is a little bit different.

21:47 I look like a Vata, but I'm actually predominantly Kapha. And then Vata would be next, and then P2 would be my third. I don't know. The percentage is. Yeah, I'm sure now your Vedic Dr. could like check my balls and tell me. But yeah, you're right.

21:59 There's a dominant and then usually subsequent, and then the third, of course. Yeah, Yeah. So it's the same and things can change as you grow, right. I'm, I'm sure if you sit there and reflect on how you were like as a child, it's substantially different of who who you are now. But same thing with Chinese medicine. We are born on a specific daytime. The planets are aligned and within that astrologers can look and see whether we're more fire dominant or whether we need more metal or whether we need more

22:33 water. So for example, this is what my parents tell me, but I I'm starting to make more sense of it. I was very fire dominant, fire and wood dominant when I was born. So to try and balance that out, from the very beginning, they made me wear gold. And then in my name there is the symbol of water and then earth. I haven't quite figured out yet, but that's the one example of how when we're born certain constitution we can already do some things, or at least know

23:10 what I'm more prone to going forward so. Is your constitution like, you know, if we were to use some quantitative like ideas of like let's just say like a percentage or a number, like we're all of the elements. Yes, absolutely. To be clear, yes, yeah.

23:23 So we're all of the elements, but we may have more dominant in one. So does the dominant mean there's it's more like that we have that or it's it's it's a weakened 1 Because I know there has something to do with yeah, because I know that I'm metal and like and like my lungs are like the struggle, for example, correct.

23:41 But I don't really understand that fully. Yeah. So I think if we relate it also to Ayurveda, like we can be pitter dominant, but we can be balanced or when something is out of balance, then we can either go one way or another. So when we look at the five elements in Chinese medicine, there are like physical attributes where you might be more dominant in one of these elements and then there are personality traits where you might be slightly more dominant in in others.

24:17 So, you know, this changes, it's constantly in flux through our life, but I've definitely gone from being more very fire dominant into personality wise probably a little bit more wood. OK. So the personality, which is something that can change is also influenced by the elements as well. Yeah.

24:37 But obviously physical physique form is while it can change, it's mostly going to stay. Pretty much. Yeah. OK, cool. That's interesting. That's a little fluctuation there. So if someone knows which is their dominant element and it's related to, let's say their physical form, is there other things to consider or would it be best to try to like curate the personality traits to be, you know, more like, you know, whatever would help to balance that out? Yeah, yeah.

25:14 So when I look at you physically, for example, you look quite woody with elements of metal about you. The woody stock standard is tall, lanky, flexible, so bendy, not a huge amount of muscle mass like you're not bulky like a fire person would be, but you're still lean and strong.

25:40 So thank you. So for example, you know, God cliche, you playing basketball, you know, would be a obvious thing to think of because of that height advantage, for example, but you might not ever really have the constitution to be the world's best weight lifter, for example.

26:01 So there are definitely exercises that or you know, things that we are naturally going to be better AT and things that are naturally going to help balance ourselves out more, whether that's physically and emotionally. So for example, my partner is also very woody.

26:21 I'm quite fiery in my personality still, but his wood and his water probably mostly comes by fire. So he doesn't add more fire to my spark. And then, you know, we could have really full blown fire. That's what I figured. I was like, he's throwing his wood on your fire and just making a big fire.

26:43 No, he's probably throwing more of his water, but he like he personality wise, instead of aggravating me, it's just like, oh, nice and balanced, right. It's not like we don't ever fight. That definitely happens. But it's more like his personality naturally counterbalances and or balances mine.

27:03 Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's part of the simplest city of like, you know, opposites attractor opposites. There's there's something there in relationships. Whereas at least in my experience, if sometimes you're too much of the same, it may seem good at first, but eventually it's almost like it doesn't quite balance out or you get bored or I'm not sure exactly what happens. Not to go too much into.

27:25 That but. But yeah, exactly, my partner Christine and I are very different. I believe she's would and I helped to support her, I think. I don't know if that's right. I think I support water actually. If you're more water.

27:40 I. You support. Water. I support water. Yes, you generate. Water and I just imagine that I'm like a bowl, a big metal bowl holding water. That's something I imagine. So if someone's a water element, mostly water, I'm like, OK, cool, I can help to support you.

27:54 And then with the tree at it's something like guiding the tree maybe. And like how the tree grows. I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense in my brain. But someone said that I'm good for her. So I was like, cool, good, good to know. That time is proven.

28:07 Yeah, cool. So I'm, I mean, some people probably don't really know what kind of element they are, but I imagine a lot of people probably feel like they are one which, you know, there might be some truth behind that, you know, usually that deep intuitive sense.

28:25 And if someone actually does know, yeah, what would be some helpful ideas or things to kind of think about, to feel into, to consider with regards to establishing balance and these types of things? What? Do you think, yeah, I will leave Earth alone?

28:43 I'm going to. I'm going to talk about wood as as an example. So wood, liver, gallbladder, the liver stores blood and if we don't have enough blood to soften the liver, it gets irritated, congested, aggravated. And anger is the organ, sorry, is the emotion that affects the organ the most.

29:11 With our this is a very large generalization and maybe doesn't apply to everybody here in Bali, but with our lifestyle of putting ourselves under quite a bit of stress, this on one hand effects our earth element, our digestion, but on the other it causes traffic jam, for lack of a better word, within us.

29:34 When we're stressed, we also consume our chi and blood, which aggravates the liver because it can't do its two jobs of storing blood, being nice and soft and supple, as well as directing the smooth flow of chi around the body.

29:49 So you know, when you're angry or you're irritated, it can sometimes actually feel like there is a traffic jam in your body. So Woody people, when they are out of balance and they feel congested, they're not as creative or as expressive and expansive or even as quick witted because Woody people tend to be quite fast as well and rather humorous. That feels stunted for them.

30:17 So anyone who tries to on the other end, stunt their creativity or try and put them in a box internally. This congestion, this irritation, can also lead to not just anger, it can lead to depression, which is input. Looking at conditions always pretty much at the base of any long term depression, there will be a stagnation of Qi because things aren't flowing as well as they should.

30:47 OK, so with because I'm trying to imagine somebody that I know that's what I guess Christina, but. Many of us are a bit livery, we'll say. Livery, well, because you said the word stress, which is kind of coincides with that, right? Because we all have again, we have all the elements. Yeah, yeah, I will say excessive stress. So you know when it's normal to be stressed. If we didn't have any stress, we wouldn't get out of bed. But if we don't tune into our

31:16 parasympathetic nervous system when we're supposed to, when we're not resting in yin time when we're supposed to, then that stress compounds and that's when it starts to cause imbalances, stagnation. So even like the doing, the action, the young, when we're stressed, when we're constantly going about our day, maybe pushing ourselves a little bit, if we don't take that yin time to build back up our blood and yin, then the liver gets brittle.

31:50 That's the word I'm looking for. Brittle because wood, if not nourished by water, blood, yin becomes brittle and then it starts to crack and break. Actually. Well, I mean, you know, if we leave a branch outside for long enough in the sun without any nourishment, if it's dead, right, then it just snaps. So these imbalances, this actually, you know what, one of the things that I thought of is just to, you know, the chi. Yes.

32:20 Just in case, let's just pretend someone doesn't know what chi is. Yeah. So Chi's energy, yeah. I'm going to say that it is intelligent. Intelligent, intelligent energy. It's like we don't tell ourselves to breathe. We don't tell our organs to do their job from the day we were conceived. You know, we're not sitting here telling our, you know, cells to degenerate exactly.

32:49 It just happens with or without our consciousness. Of course, if we bring our consciousness, we can definitely shift the way, you know, our Constitution, the way that we are even. But yes, we don't breathe ourselves. Right, so intelligent energy, yeah, OK, I actually like that. That's cool.

33:10 That makes me goes way more profound in my brain. So all the things that are kind of happening for you, this energy, this flowing, this movement throughout your body is it's an intelligence. And, you know, sometimes I make reference to this, like, your body has so much intelligence, like your nervousness about such intelligence.

33:27 Your bone has all this intelligence. Your fascia has all this intelligence. But at the end of the day, what am I saying? It's like the chi. It's my chi. Yeah. So if chi becomes stagnant in a particular area of the body, so for example, in this case we're talking mostly the liver, I think you said.

33:44 And it can have these negative effects that can obviously manifest into other types of like conditions and diseases in the body, which I'm sure there could be a laundry list of things that could happen. Yeah, absolutely.

33:56 So just to clarify that, one of the main jobs that the liver does is to direct. It's like the general. It directs chi in the right direction. So that's its young, its relationship with energy. So it does, it's not the creator of energy, but it basically tells energy where to flow. And if chi isn't flowing, it cannot bring blood. So if the young element of chi isn't flowing, then it can't bring the yin element of blood body fluids along with it. So like yin and Yang theory,

34:36 they always move together, they rely on each other for harmony and balance. So sometimes if you have pain for example, is a easy example to use. In that particular point, if it is being fixed for a while, chi and blood stagnation, things aren't moving through there.

34:54 To further delineate, it could be because there's not enough chi or there could be because there's not enough blood, or there could be stopping that like a physical obstruction, stopping that flow, which makes yeah, diagnosis sometimes a little bit more complicating than it.

35:12 It's always like, but what if or what? What else? I can't necessarily give a complete an answer without knowing and seeing right, which is why I kind of love it cuz everyone's a different puzzle and not every treatment will suit someone with liver cheese stagnation as a condition cuz it depends why it.

35:37 Depends why? What would be some hypothetical reasons? Yeah, why just. To kind of like, yeah, help the brain. Yeah, absolutely repressed emotions. Yeah, OK. Yeah, anything that doesn't flow out of us. So basically, you know, they're saying better out than in with emotions and probably with with many other things. Like farts, probably exactly in case you're wondering. Oh my goodness, I saw this meme where it's like, do you know where bad ideas come from?

36:06 It's because you've held in your. Actually, I saw that recently too. So holding your farts, that's where bad ideas come from. Yes. And I'm like brilliant, brilliant. So emotional repression thus could cause liver chi stagnation.

36:24 That's the big one that pops in stress, or too much stress, where we're, yeah, pushing the body, consuming more chi and blood than we can regenerate, causes a natural disharmony for things not to flow as well as as one should.

36:43 Is that not, I don't want to try to oversimplify, but I just want to try something here. Is that like a lot of Yang and go go go and not enough rest and recovery kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That can definitely do it. It can show up in many, many other ways as well, but that can that can definitely do it.

36:58 Stagnant lifestyle, not moving, sitting at a desk looking at the computer, not getting up, taking breaks, having your own personal practice, exercise regime, movement. If we're still, things don't move and flow as well as they should. So that can definitely cause liberty stagnation. This is interesting because whenever I assess someone for their physical ailments, I'm obviously more in the looking at the physical, like, you know, I go beyond that, of course, but I was trained in such a way to be

37:29 like, what was the mechanical thing that you were doing? And like what was happening at the time? And, you know, obviously there's other elements of emotional and the things that you're saying, but I love that. I don't know if this is generally how Chinese medicine works, but like kind of diving into like, you know, almost like the history of like, OK, what what might be the reason why this is manifesting an imbalance in this area kind of thing beyond just the physical, right? So I think that's really

37:55 interesting. Stress or the liver is imbalance and, you know, can lead to, you know, roll a die on what that might mean for the body. Besides coming to see Someone Like You, of course. Is there anything that someone could do to like, you know, recognize these things and possibly do something for themselves?

38:16 Like if it's like, Oh yeah, I don't do anything. I'm kind of sitting around. Like obviously you switch the energy up and like do the opposite maybe or what do you think? Yeah. I mean, the ideal situation is that I can help somebody get to a point where they don't need me anymore, and that it is simply a balance of health, lifestyle, dietary things that helps them retain their balance. Because we're constantly in flux, like everything in nature. So there are going to be days

38:49 when naturally we feel a little bit lower in energy. We should rest. Most people know what they should do versus what they want to do or actually do. But one of the things I love about meditation and one of the things I'll carry with me from yoga is that there are many tools that we can create and that we can learn to help us feel more of who we are more embodied and more aware.

39:27 And the first step is recognizing and then creating more and more awareness and then finding and developing more of our tools that we can use to be able to help ourselves, you know, create more balance. So meditation for me is not so much anymore a daily practice. It is a tool that I use when I feel like I need it to find a little bit more inner peace.

40:01 But then there are times where I know I should go to Uber Mai Tai and punch something. But that is, I guess, you know, a mixture between having great people around me, other practitioners to help support me, as well as, you know, learning over time. OK, when I am feeling angry, sitting here and meditating, even though taking a few breaths will definitely help move the chi sitting here is going to probably cause a little bit more stagnation.

40:33 It's going to cause a bit more awareness at the time. So I might sit for a few breaths a minute or so and then it's like, no, you know what? I actually need to go and physically get this out. So it's this constant learning.

40:46 And that's another thing that I really want to emphasize is that we're going to constantly learn. We're going to constantly be in flux. This ultimate health goal is a moving target. And with that, of course, there are periods of time where we feel great, when we feel like there's a great stretch of harmony and balance.

41:04 But if we slowly tip out of that, that's also OK if we have the tools and the people and support around us to come back to balance. So I see especially people who are really struggling and I really feel for them. They're like, I just want to feel good.

41:20 And then there are people who, excuse me, are just like really aware and they're fine tuning. And then sometimes I get asked a question, is this ever going to end? I was like, no, this is our journey, you know, our health journey. Everything is a constant moving target. Sometimes we get the bull's eye, sometimes we're nearly there, but not quite.

41:39 And it's a constant trial and error. And we should be really compassionate with ourselves through throughout the process of trying to find harmony and balance because logically, it's a beautiful idea. But if we didn't get to experience the full array of emotions and experiences being human, I don't know.

42:00 I feel like perhaps you know this. We have much more to learn and much more to experience. Yeah. And if we do achieve this balance and this harmony, the reality is it's probably not going to stay. No, no, because nothing is permanent, right? Exactly.

42:18 It's kind of like the yin and the Yang. It's like things are still in flux. Yeah, I mean, yoga philosophy, one of one of, I can't remember what concept it is, but you know, like nothing is permanent. We're here in this society constantly trying to grasp and to hold on to things for, I guess, our own Peace of Mind more than anything else. And we want to control everything around us so that we feel more centered or grounded or at peace. But really, we can't control

42:54 many things that are around us despite us wanting, you know, attachments, right? So it's the same thing with our health. You know, there are times where it's appropriate to be exhausted, and that's our body telling us something. And then there are times that it's appropriate to be full power and we're trying to get shit done during the day. OK, I can relate.

43:19 And a lot of it is like trusting yourself and a little bit of your intuition or tapping into or just listening to, right? You don't necessarily have to listen to your own pulse. And like, you know, obviously it's great to have people like you to help guide and give a little bit direction because I think a lot of people get in their own head and they're not really sure what they do need to do.

43:38 But I did like what you said before, which is like most people kind of have an idea or they, they kind of know what they should do, right? They may not want to do it or they might not actually do it, but there's an intuitive sense there. There's something there and, you know, whatever it is that pushes them over the edge.

43:52 Maybe it's Someone Like You or a practitioner that says like, hey, why don't you try that? And you're just like, I've been thinking that, but now that you say it, I guess I should do it, right? But actually listening to that voice inside, there's an intelligence there that is probably knocking at the door to kind of help create that balance or try to find closer to that balance or that harmony.

44:12 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, OK, cool. So that was kind of like an overall, I would say for all the elements more or less, right. Kind of. Yeah, yeah, it. Kind of applies to all. Bits and pieces for sure. So what I'm thinking is maybe we can go into a few of the other ones.

44:31 What do you think? Yeah, yeah, sure. OK, let's do that. So we're gonna wrap up today's episode and continue the conversation with Jocelyn next week to talk more about the elements of traditional Chinese medicine. So thank you so much for tuning in this week. As always, if you have any questions, comments, or feedback, you can reach out to us at podcast@goingproyoga.com. Or of course, you can reach out to us on Instagram. We'll put those links in the

44:56 show notes as well. Otherwise, have a beautiful week and we'll speak to you next week. Take care for now. All right, before you go, let me just tell you about the goingproyoga.com platform. So right now you can go to goingproyoga.com and check it out for free for seven days, where you can actually learn more about yoga in the ways of alignment, queuing, sequencing, yoga anatomy. So that if you've done a 200 hour teacher training and you want to continue to learn,

45:21 practice and grow, this platform is definitely for you. So I definitely suggest checking it out. goingproyoga.com right now. You can try it out for free for seven days.