Trauma Informed Yoga with Anthea Taeuber

0:00 Okay, talking to Mike. Hello. My name is Anthea. My name is Antonia today. We're going to talk about emotion trauma. Informed, trauma, approaches to yoga and life. How to live a trauma-informed life for yourself and others.

0:20 Wow, it's super interesting to hear yourself, but actually what we sound like, Interesting. Yeah. Christina has an incredible voice it's so it's amazing especially when you know that yes. I've been told my voices. Nasally like a little.

0:45 Now you're good. Even if it is like who cares? You can talk lower sounds great. Do you ever talk about what happens when a person you know goes into like ew. Good teaching mode. How their voice changes a little bit. Yeah.

0:58 Yeah. The yoga teacher voice. Uh, are the meditation voice? Yeah, we talked about that. It's like, a huge pet peeve of Byron's. He has it, though. Like, what I was watching some videos of him teaching yoga and I was cloudy.

1:10 Sounds a lot different than it. Yeah, he does. But it's actually more. Excuse me. It's more have his true authentic self when he's teaching. Right? Or it's like a different version of himself. Like more embodied. Probably more embodied, exactly.

1:24 Like when he's with his friends and stuff like that, he's more socially embodied, right? Playful and stuff like that and he's playful in the class, but there's also a level of professionalism and, like, seriousness, that's added to that playfulness. Wow, pradeep a pretty deep.

1:40 I wonder if over the years, as he continues teaching, if that will seep more into his social interactions. She noticed study on Byron every year, PhD, on Byron, seven years, iridology buyer, and the buyer knowledge. We should probably just start the podcast from this conversation. It sounds pretty good.

2:01 Welcome to the going pro yoga podcast, Namaste. My name is Paul chiodo joined here with Michael Henry. Most yoga teacher, trainings are becoming watered-down and mediocre. So, we've created this podcast. To help supplement those of you who graduated from a teacher training and don't feel confident going out into the real world. Michael, and I are lucky to have been trained by some amazing people.

2:30 We've gone out into the world ourselves and had success and we want you to feel confident to protect your students and to build your career with integrity and authenticity, Welcome to our podcast. All right, thanks everyone for joining us on the going pro yoga podcasts.

2:47 So I'm having a conversation. Relation here with one of my dearest friends, Anthea Anthea, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. So we were just jamming out and caught talking gossip about Byron, because he's not here.

2:59 So it's just me and Anthea today. But we're going to be talking about trauma-informed, yoga, and I'm really excited to talk about this because I don't know much about it, to be honest. And I want to pull out as much as I can from your brain and Thea because I feel like you have a lot to offer our audience.

3:17 So if you don't know what, trauma, informed, Armed. Yoga is or just what trauma-informed means? We do have an episode about trauma-informed, so if you want to listen to that you can. It's with Rusty price. Who's a trauma-informed? Hypnotherapist.

3:30 Wow. But it's a different level of conversation that we talked about. I forget exactly how it was going, but I think it was related to trauma informed, just as a presenter as is helping people in general, but I think this episode is going to be a little bit more how it applies to being a teacher yoga teacher and what implications are. What factors to think about Amy took some notes. So we kind of will go through them as best as we can. But ultimately, we're going to,

3:54 we're going to digest that so Anthea. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Maybe we can start off by allowing the audience to learn a little bit about you or your from your background and what you're passionate about passionate about possibly.

4:07 Yeah, okay. Yeah, sounds great. So, my name is Anthea. I was born and raised in a small town. In Connecticut was very rural. Lots of like farmland and trees. And then, I grew up with a lot of art background as well. My mom is an artist.

4:23 So I felt like I was kind of an art school as I was also in public school. So I've always been into like self-expression, painting writing, those sorts of things that I went to college in Los Angeles. I wanted something different from my little Hometown.

4:38 And so I went to this big city, across the, the US and I studied cognitive neuroscience and international relations both. I couldn't really pick And that actually brings me to, I guess, the beginning of my yoga Journey, which was in college, my freshman year, I began experimenting with yoga and I really liked it as as, like, a form of a workout, like I didn't really like going to the gym and lifting weights, but I liked yoga that it was more flowy and about, you know, connecting to

5:08 your body. I think most I think most people get into yoga for that. It was the same thing for me it was like physical, you know, I could run faster and my hips were more open and then all the sudden I was like, oh there's more This right here. That's like that's like most of the world and yeah, and tree. Yeah.

5:23 So that was that and then I actually stopped yoga that only lasts about three months for me and then I guess we'll get into this a little bit later. But yoga came back to me when I was 22 years old after I'd gotten out of a really abusive relationship that lasted about a year.

5:40 And yeah I don't know how we want to. Yeah I mean well we can depending on how where you want to go with. At conversation, I think that the the elements of your background is what helps to fuel this conversation, right? Because your experiences is his moved. You in the direction of wanting to explore, more learn more. Yes, about particular topics and things that you're passionate about.

6:03 So kind of comes full circle, right? Let's just Dive Right In then, I guess. Well, the first question I have is, what is cognitive Neuroscience? Because I know what that means, but I'm wondering if everyone else is study, cognitive Neuroscience is the study of the brain, right?

6:17 So out of Whole level. So the classes I was taking were a lot about like neurogenesis the creation of new neurons and how you can apply different like learning techniques and just having different awareness of your brain to kind of enhance your memory, things like that. Also just understanding yourself there was quite a bit of psychology in there as well.

6:37 So understanding why people who've had different experiences growing up act in certain ways because of how their brain has formed. So kind of already before I had experienced My trauma that led me to yoga. I was already understanding that, you know, our childhood especially shapes how how we act but also how our brain actually physiologically shape is looks in our in our mind, right?

7:01 And like how it grows and how it adjusts exactly like shifts, which is interesting, because a lot of people in, probably not the yoga space, but they resist change. Yes. Right. And we have this thing called brain. Plasticity, know our brain is plastic, which means it can change. So this I see kind of goes down as we get older, but at any point, we can actually completely remap the way, our brain looks and works, right?

7:26 Right. And that's what neurogenesis is. So narrow being neurons. The the matter that makes up our brain, basically, and then Genesis meaning creation. Exact creating new. So very fascinating information. Very fascinating studies, I'm sure.

7:38 Yeah, yeah, cool. And then so you have you started doing yoga from the beginning for a physical purpose, or whatever that. Was and then you did it for about three months and then you stopped and there was a gap there. So, why did you stop what happened? I can't actually remember why I stopped. I think I got really busy with school. I was double majoring and so I just had so many classes. I think, normally you take four classes, I was taking seven classes, a semester because I

8:07 was trying to do is double major, and so I just didn't have any time. So I really wasn't doing physical exercise, and I gained quite a bit of weight and I wasn't really feeling good in my body. Yeah. Because of the lack of yoga, right? Right.

8:21 Okay. Life got busy. Yeah. As we say, yeah, ever an excuse, but that's when you need yoga the most I think. Yeah. That's that's very true. Yeah, very true heard. The saying like if you don't have time for 10 minutes of meditation you need 20 minutes.

8:35 Hmm it's like the same with yoga. Like if you don't have time for a one-hour class you probably need more than an hour like a 90-minute class. Yeah. The pasta enemy meditation. That's interesting. Never heard that before.

8:47 Yeah. So So okay, so what happened after that? Like let's I don't know how comfortable you want to, because this is obviously, I'm going to Fumble upon my words, a little bit is talking about trauma. I'm trying to be sensitive to you and your background, right?

9:00 So how do you want to help this audience? Understand a little bit more about why you went into the space? Maybe if you want to talk about some of that maybe in just like a shell form and then giving some people context because, you know, similar to me, if I don't know that much about it, I'm sure there's other people that are Listening that are like, I'm not really understanding what trauma, you know, because there's a different definition of a trauma is in a lot of people's brains so maybe we can

9:25 start with that. Okay. Maybe like, what is trauma? Exactly defining trauma. That's such a good place to start. I think for me a definition that really helped. It make sense was something that feels like too much and happens too soon and too fast. So it's basically a really overwhelming experience. Usually it's accompanied with feelings of like Terror and horror and just shocked.

9:48 Shock as well. So it's like a negative feeling there can also be positive things. That happen too much, too soon too fast, but this is more of like on the negative shock Spectrum, right? So that's what that's how I Define trauma.

10:01 And I guess for the purposes of that, what my traumatic experience was, was I first I went on my first solo trip as a Solo Traveler when I was 20 and it was to Hawaii. And on my last day, there I was offered a ride. I'd like into town by a stranger somebody.

10:20 I didn't know and I had heard stories about people in Hawaii like hitchhiking and I just kind of thought it was normal and safe and I unfortunately didn't get like a kind person, I guess and he actually ended up like locking me in the car.

10:34 Driving me to his house and I just experienced rape like repeatedly for a couple of hours and then I was lucky, I got out of that situation but that was like, the first time Time I had ever experienced something traumatic, right?

10:50 That was too much for me to process. Yeah. You're 20 years old. I was 20. I never had like a negative experience like that. I didn't even really know that that was possible. Like it never crossed my mind that that would happen to me. And so that was the first thing.

11:03 And I think, what sometimes happens when we don't experience when we don't process, our trauma is that we can get stuck in these cycles of the same thing happening over and over, right? So that's exactly what happened to me. And that's one of the reasons I'm really passionate about talking about drama.

11:19 Because I think if we can normalize, you know, talking about what happens to us, even within 24 hours, you can greatly decrease, the risk of developing things like PTSD and flashbacks and all of these things. I didn't tell anyone for about six months. Mmm.

11:34 So you can imagine my my brain and my body were trying to figure out what happened wasn't making sense. During that time, I became pretty suicidal and just stopped really caring about myself because I blamed myself entirely Lee for accepting that ride. I thought I couldn't tell people because they would think I was stupid, you know, they say don't talk to strangers. There.

11:54 I went and got a car with a stranger like it was very complex and my mind. Yeah. And also within that six months, I entered into a relationship that became very violent and a lot of ways, the same as that experience, I had in Hawaii except now it was under the label of relationship. Right.

12:12 So I literally went from a one like Shock Trauma like they call it like Big T trauma? Like Big T is like when it's a big event that happens but in a short amount of time and then I went into another relationship where it started out as like more little T traumas, like lowercase T, so it wasn't super overwhelming and then that culminated into bigger T traumas, right. So the little T traumas, like more or less intensity but longer period of time.

12:42 Exactly, right? Yeah, can happy and they call that complex trauma, right? Is when you have a little tea it could and yeah the little T trauma. Is over a long period of time, can turn into a big T trauma, right? And so, at the end of that relationship, you know, like the authorities got involved.

12:57 I had to leave school early actually. And I went back home and I was just totally not like a functioning human anymore. I had a severe PTSD, I had acute stress syndrome, I couldn't do anything alone. Like, I, my mom spent almost all her time in my room, with me, like eating. When I would wake up.

13:13 I needed someone to be there. I really was struggling. And so, And I started something called EMDR eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy. Eye movement, D tenses, detent desensitization, desensitization and reprocessing and reprocessing.

13:33 Yes. Okay. And what did that look like? What is that? Yeah, so that is a type of therapy that helps you. So, going back to this definition of trauma, too much, too soon, too, fast, overwhelming. Usually, when you are, Living your life, both sides of your brain, your right? And your left brain are on processing together. At the same time you have your right brain, which is like somatic.

13:55 So all of your feelings like Sensations, what'd you hear? What'd you smell what? You're tasting, what you're seeing? And then you have your left brain, which is more logic, which is like time and place. So in a traumatic event, your left brain because it can't process like what's happening to you.

14:10 It totally shuts off, it goes offline completely. So your right brain is the only part of your brain, that's recording the memory. Mmm, so because of that, you Don't know that the traumatic situation is over so you can be have things like triggers, right?

14:23 You can have flashbacks, these are all of the kind of signs of PTSD. Okay? So what EMDR helps you do with, like, reprocess, those traumatic memories. So, you go through first phase of learning how to just kind of be comfortable sitting, because that's where a lot of people have to start.

14:42 It's like, you can't even sit and be aware of your body or your thoughts, so they help you through creating a safe place. In your mind, you do a lot of safe place. Visualization, you create a protector and I brought my little protector with me. This is my little doll raspberry. I like bring her everywhere all to take a picture raspberry and post it so that we can see.

15:01 Yeah, she's my mom gave me here when I was seven and so she became like in my mind as well. This like protect her figure and you get to this place where you can sit and actually go back and re feel and like, really, really experienced this trauma, you've had but this time you either watch someone's finger with your eyes going. And forth or you hold these two little, they're called Thera tappers.

15:23 So it's like a little, like, I don't know. It's like the shape of a chicken nugget. I can't describe it, but it sends a signal back and forth like buzz buzz buzz that you can feel. And so the idea is that it's stimulating your right and your left brain, I laterally stimulating while you're back in the traumatic memory and it helps your brain closed, the loop reprocess it. So that, you know, it's over, right? Okay, cool.

15:47 So you said a lot and I want to, I want to, I want to summarize, I already try to summarize it and then we can fill in the gaps because I think I understood it, but I want to make sure that everybody understands that so traumatic event occurs or Big T in this situation. The the right brain, basically thinks it's still happening because the disconnect between the right brain in the left brain, which is the, the feeling or the emotion, and then the logic because they're not

16:12 communicating, and the logic is not saying, hey, like this is over, you're good now. The right brain is Basically saying like, no, I'm by myself, like this is happening. I'm in this Loop, I'm stuck, whatever kind of emotions or feelings are coming through, so that's ultimately what the trauma is. And then this EMDR such as the right EMDR actually allows through a series of techniques and treatments, I guess allows the the right brain and left brain to communicate to each other so that the right brain

16:42 can see it. Absorbs. Some of the logic to be like, oh, shoot. Okay. This is over And then ultimately closing that Loop and therefore, providing somewhat of a relief or Annie's exact to the body of the mind to the emotion.

16:55 Exactly. Right. So, for example, one of one of my strongest sugars was being locked like in a car or in a room feeling like I couldn't get out. And if that used to happen, even if I had trouble with the door full-on panic attack, like I am gonna die, this is, you know, life-or-death situation, even if I was like, in my own room, right?

17:14 And so after doing the EMDR session, where I process them and I went Canted like being stuck in that car being stuck in my ex's closet, I still maybe we'll have a reaction, but then, I will immediately say, I am safe. I have my phone. I can call my mom, you know, like you are able to help yourself through those moments, right? Because now you have the logic there. You can start to take action instead of just kind of crumbling.

17:37 Ultimately. So the EMDR whenever you're kind of obviously when you're starting off in establishing a nice safe space or feeling that safe space will allow enough room. Room for the trigger to happen. Yes. And for you to be okay with the trigger and then therefore some sort of change or neuro plasticity Barrow, Regenesis, or some sort of Shifting can possibly happen. Exactly.

18:02 And the, like even more Neuroscience behind, that is the part of our brain responsible for like threats and survival is called the amygdala. You know, it's kind of what's firing to let us know. It's like the smoke detector of the brain. Right?

18:13 So when it senses, something's a little off our amygdala starts to activate and and help us make decisions and choices. This people who have experienced trauma or have PTSD their amygdalas on like all the time, right? So, with thinks everything is smoke and thinks that you like coming walking towards me as smoke is a threat.

18:29 And so, a lot of what EMDR helps you do is like, help, helping you regulate that amygdala which in turn helps, you regulate your nervous system, right? Which is why we can start getting into how yoga is helpful as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, that's a really great Foundation, I think and I think it's important to talk about all those elements, the one other element, I think.

18:48 Think would be helpful just to make sure we can bring it full circle is just explaining a little bit more, a trigger. Okay. And then what kind of like how that affects the brain in that same kind of way? So like you know, the example of the door handle like that being a trigger but like what's actually happening what's going on? So when you get triggered again your amygdala comes on and it will activate, if you still are having a trauma response, it will kind of activate all of the

19:14 memories from your past and all of the feelings and all of the fears. And in your body. So a lot of times when you feel a trigger, you'll feel kind of this like rush in your body. It could be of, like, hot energy, hot blood, and it's just your body's nervous system kicking in, like, prepared preparing to save you basic, right? So that fight or flight freeze or exactly on the thing because the fourth one, I think.

19:36 Yeah. And also collapse. Okay, well thanks. So that's one way, that's a good point that you brought that up so the fight or flight or freeze. So another response you can have to a trigger is to go like totally numb where you just, you just Associate dissociation is a huge part of having PTSD, where life just becomes too much for your brain to process that you stop feeling things and just shuts off.

19:57 Yeah, exactly. Like, I remember, when I first the first yoga class I ever tried to go to, I think we did like a downward dog or something. And I got, I felt really uncomfortable. And I just became like a zombie for the next 20 minutes.

20:08 I was just like, literally staring at the ceiling. Right? And the teacher like, kept coming over to me, are you? Okay, and I was just, I couldn't even respond. I just like laid there. Well, you kind of get In your own body.

20:19 Curious, was it a male or female teacher? You remember, you know. Okay, thank God. Yeah, it was lucky. But you know, my first experiences with yoga were not positive, I dreaded it and it was my MD or therapist who, you know, started to recommend like Hey we're doing all this work on your mind, it's time for you to start getting a connection to your body, right?

20:37 Because you can't fully heal. If you don't if you are not connected, right? Same thing with the left and right brain if your if your brain isn't connected to your body either. Yeah. So and that's actually how I Struggling so much with going to the yoga classes in my town that I found a trauma-informed, yoga teacher training online. Well, that was a 50 hour and you didn't have to have a 200 hour before.

21:00 And so, that was my introduction into yoga. Actually, was going and learning how to how to have a trauma-informed approach for myself. Like, it gave me a toolkit for me to start learning, right? Yeah, wow, that's super New to me.

21:18 So thank you for explaining all that and I think, I think we have a good foundation now. So I think moving into the yoga space a little bit more and I think the reason why this is helpful or important, if you're listening is, you know, there's possible that you could have an anti walk into your class one day and just being a little bit more sensitive to the language that you use. And possibly, I mean, obviously this, it comes with experience being able to read the room and

21:39 seeing when someone's uncomfortable or something's going on. But just being aware of what trauma isn't that everyone faces trauma and that chances are others. Eventually at some point, going to be someone in your classroom that's going to be experiencing trauma in a way and it might be related to sexual abuse or something to this effect. Just by nature of the industry itself. How could we be sensitive to our language and or sensitive to our suggestions as a leader of, you

22:04 know, 20 30 people in a room? Let alone being a trauma and trauma-informed yoga teacher, right? Which is obviously a separate type of training, but just I think for the general yoga teachers out there, it would be helpful to learn this. And I think this is one of the things Byron is Excited to hear about is like, what kind of language should be be sensitive to, with regards to teaching and just general possibly. And then, we can get more specific as a, maybe like a like, a trauma-informed yoga

22:30 teacher where you have actually asked, you know, you know, you have people in your class that are dealing with those, those triggers? Yeah. I love how you pose that because I also think anyone everyone can be trauma-informed especially when it comes to language.

22:43 It's like these small little adjustments that you know, we all go through, challenges in our childhood. And also adult life that can impact our self-esteem, how we think of ourselves, how we might react to feeling. Like we can't do something. I know in yoga, something that was really emphasized at the training.

22:59 I did was not using words, like can't like, if you can't do this, then you can just do this. You know, that's kind of like a disempowering phrase, right? As you're reminding them, oh, I can't touch my toes so I can only do this like that's not enough, right? So anytime you can remove that kind of language and really focusing on what you Do if you can do this, do this. If you can do this, do this then people feel like oh I can do any level of that and it feels

23:24 better, but I think the other important thing is that the beginning of a class like I know I've had experiences where, because of my trauma-informed training, they taught me that at any point. If I don't want to do something, I can just come into child's pose and rest, that's like, my right as someone in the yoga class.

23:43 And I've been in classes before where they'll say, like let's meet in down, dog, and maybe See, I just don't feel like doing down dog for, like the 10th time or I don't want to do it at all that day. So I'll instead come into, like a tabletop or a child's pose, and then I'll here again, let's meet in down, dog. A third time, meet in down, dog.

23:59 And at that point, you know, maybe I've looked around. I see, I'm the only one there, so, I feel directly like I'm being directly spoken to, right? And if you're someone who's experienced trauma of being, like, forced to do something, you don't want to do, that can be incredibly uncomfortable, right? And so, I think, in those situations, if you see someone taking a break and not listening, It's not because they're not, you know, being respectful to you as the teacher.

24:21 It's just in that moment. That's what they're needing totally. And if you can either, you can either not acknowledge it and just allow them their space to be or you could even add in something like and if you feel that you want to take a child's pose or take a rest like listen to your body. That's beautiful too.

24:36 Yeah. Then you're validating to that person like good job. You're listening to your body that you're also. Welcome to do that in my space. Yeah, I think that's super, super important and I know that Byron does that I know Paul does that For sure.

24:49 And maybe you do that if you're listening, but if you don't, it's something just think about, right? Are you providing options for your students to have like a safe space to go to whenever they want to. Yes, right. And it could be from a physical reasons of feeling like this is hard and my body needs a break physically, or maybe something does.

25:07 Come up trigger emotionally mentally and you need to break that way? Yeah, right. Yoga's. Full circle. So It's not about necessarily pushing in, you know, making your classes, super hard, obviously. Some people like that and sweaty and all that piece, but even a strong hard class challenging class Power, Yoga class can also be considered with a simple sentence like you just said at any point in time if you want to come into child's pose you more welcome to do that and I think that should be encouraged.

25:37 I think the the separation between something like child's pose and doing something different in the class. If everyone's in down, dog, and someone's in child's pose, that's Fine. But if everyone's in down, dog, maybe this isn't a good example but maybe you're doing something else like you're in. You're in Warrior two or something like that. And then someone's popping up into a handstand or doing something that's completely different from the flow of the class.

25:57 Then that direct language that you're referring to would make more sense. Yeah. But if someone's taking time for themselves in something like child's pose, or some sort of other resting pose, I think directing the language to try to make sure your classes, everyone's doing the same pose, or you're trying to control the room. I feel like that's a level of control. Oh, that's not necessary and it should be encouraged to allow the students to feel safe in

26:19 that space. Yeah, we're not just the physical reasons. The, possibly the triggering reasons, as well. Hmm. Yeah, I think also a going off of that is Choice. Like any time you can give a choice. Like, I know, sometimes in inversions there's different things you can do. Like, you could do a handstand or a headstand Aura like always giving options and for people to choose. Again, we learned and for me personally, like always having a choice between like three

26:42 different things. I would feel empowered to choose like, I wanted to do that day. So giving choices important when it comes to hands on adjustments. If you're giving like a proper trauma-informed class, I would recommend having cards that say like, yes and no on them.

26:57 Yeah, and you can say, you know, at any point, you know, if you're a yes at the beginning of class, but you want to change to a no, you flip the card and that kind of solves that uncertainty there. If you're going to be touched or not and then always again asking again, like, would you like to receive an adjustment, right? Yes, or no.

27:14 No. Yeah, I think that's it. I think that's probably where most people went, when I went to trauma-informed. Yoga, like, don't touch people. It's like, yeah, that is one element of it. And it's definitely a topic that we could even dive into even deeper. But I'd think that you bringing up the cards is like you're right.

27:29 It's that's the best way to go. And even then the training that we're doing right now with Paul and Byron, we talked about adjustments and I'm very sensitive to adjustments because I as a physical therapist, understand the level of trust that needs to be there and rapport with the person that you're And if you are a yoga teacher and have a class first full of 20, 30 people, chances are, you don't have that rapport with everyone in the room, maybe you do with some regulars and

27:53 they trust you and, you know that and you can adjust them, there's no worries. But for those that are new, or relatively new or you don't really know on that kind of energetic level, it can be tricky to just say like who likes adjustments, who doesn't like adjustments, right?

28:07 Because then like you said before, if you say who doesn't like adjustments, or who does not want, It just means or something like this. Your kind of planting that anticipation or expectation that like oh if I don't put my hands up, they're going to come and just me and then who knows what kind of loop that starts to create but and the simplest form. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I think it's important to if there are cards just use those cards, right? Instead of trying to be clever

28:34 and finding out if people want adjustments or not. Because from a physical perspective, it makes sense like if they wanted or they don't want it. But from an energetic or emotional perspective, like, Highlighting whether someone does or doesn't could trigger in a way that you don't understand. Right.

28:49 Exactly. So the cards is a safe safe, safe spot. So if you have a studio you have your own place. Get cards. Yes. No. Super easy. Yeah. Green? Red simple. Go. Or no? Right? Exactly. And I think also, there's so much you can do with like adjustments. I teach all my classes without adjustments and instead I'll have people really imagine.

29:09 Like, imagine somebody was pushing on your sacrum, sending your hips to the back of the room. Like you can do a lot with visuals where you can just help people adjust themselves. So that's also something to keep in mind like the power of the mind, to help the person stretch and change the position they're in, right?

29:25 Energetic queuing is what we would call that organic queuing where you're you're queuing in action or visualization to initiate some sort of Engagement or change in the body or what we call stretch or expansion. And it can be done through words, doesn't need to have the physical touch and I think, you know, we'll move on from this, but I think with the adjustments piece is sometimes, people don't understand the language of, you know, certain areas of the body or maybe they don't speak

29:54 English, or something like that. And then like the, the I would say, the next level of adjustment would be just like a finger, right? Right. Like just pointing a finger like in between the shoulder blades and be like, you know, try to draw it.

30:05 Draw your shoulder blades away from each other. So then they know they're like, oh, it has something to do with this. Space in my body, but it's very light. It's, you know, and obviously having the yes and no is important still in that situation even though it's light.

30:16 But like to me that level of adjustment is like fantastic. Yeah, there's no need to put your full Palm on someone and or both portions Strat. Yeah, you know, unless you have that Rapport that trust the consent, so many elements that are required. So for you at most yoga teachers, if they feel like adjustments, and I know that a lot of people like adjustments, because it makes them feel like I'm doing something you can do a lot as a yoga teacher and not.

30:39 Not have to adjust anyone, you're providing a lot to the people in the room and you don't need to touch them. So anyway, that's the last piece I wanted to add to the to the adjustments. So, okay. So these are different little ways that teachers can use techniques or just understanding being informed, if you will to be inclusive in their class. Yes.

31:02 And is there any other ones or that we pretty much cover most of those? There's a couple more. So one thing that, Can can really help someone if you know that they've struggled with trauma? And I think also just anyone is doing a one word check in like before and at the end of class, so that you really help people.

31:18 See, oh, I'm coming in. I'm feeling stressed, anxious, numb, and I'm leaving feeling strong grateful. So really helping that positive feedback loop in their brain form. So that they have a positive Association. Like, even on my hardest day, I'm still going to come to yoga class and work through, whatever it is, I'm working through because at the end, I will most likely feel Better than when I come in.

31:41 I see that as a very powerful assessment tool. Yes. And or just like a treatment tool, it's just a it's providing people an opportunity to be aware of their state of being, or their emotional state of being. Exactly. And then having a compare contrast.

31:56 Yeah. And that's almost like the II don't know if this is true, but the EMDR kind of like your kind of like self connecting your, how you feel, and then how you feel? Again later using logic to something. That's a great way to put it.

32:08 Yeah. And so I think I always start in a my class like that way. And if you're in person, you can even open up room for people to share. If they would. Like you can just say if anyone wants to say their word out loud, then you get people saying how they're feeling in their voice and that's like an extra layer of awareness, right? And it also helps people see like, okay, maybe some people are feeling excited, maybe some people are feeling tired, but they were all here together and

32:31 we're going to go through this experience together. It's such a simple thing to do a simple, but it takes a few seconds and it also connects everybody in the room which I feel like when You go to a yoga class sometimes if you're there just for you. But you also remember you're there with other people as well totally.

32:45 So it helps everyone and then you kind of have this beautiful more like Community feeling as you're going through the class. Yeah. And the thing that comes up for me with that is like fried first. When you were saying that I was thinking like, oh a small class, three, four, five, six, seven people, that would probably work really well. But then I was also thinking like, you know, it's still work with a big class because even if only two or three people answer and one person says I'm tired.

33:08 There's probably like Another 20% of the people in the room that are going to be like, I'm tired too. Exactly. And that's all if there are saying that the night, that's okay. You don't was like, it creates. Like you said, that connection, that community that sense of safety.

33:21 So everyone in the room doesn't have to answer. Exactly right. And I've also had it where like if I was feeling scared, but someone next to me was feeling strong, I would kind of look to them during the classes like almost like an extra guide you know like like paying attention to their energy and just you just feel like you're not alone, right? So, So yeah, I think it's a great thing to add in whenever you can.

33:43 Wow, that's really good. The last thing I wanted to talk about was shavasana, okay? So that's something to be very mindful of, if you're teaching a population. Like, if you were teaching veterans or women at a women at a women's shelter or just, you wanted to have more trauma-informed class, you kind of never want to have someone who might have PTSD close their eyes in an unguided space, so you don't want to leave them alone in Silence with their eyes

34:09 closed. Because That's when your flashbacks in your – trauma will come up and you're very likely to dissociate which is what used to happen. To me, the second I close my eyes. I would just like leave and be totally unaware and especially at the end of a practice, that's when all of the integration is happening. So you really want them to be present, right? And so if they're not able to on their own, then what you can do in shavasana is kind of almost

34:30 take a Yoga Nidra like approach to guiding them into having this awareness of, like all the parts of their body that are touching. The mat, all the parts of their body that are touching the air. Just bringing them through part by part and then you can have them do a visualization. So what I like to do at the end of my classes is I have people imagine what color piece is for them, that day and then I do a little body, like a piece, like he the emotion of the emotion of Peace.

34:56 Like, what color is peace for you today, right. Maybe it's a light purple or a blue or yellow and then you have them, you bring them through this body scan where they're filling their body up with this peaceful color. So it's very relaxing and you would feel the way you would in shavasana if you if you Maybe didn't have PTSD, but they're able to still experience that feeling of peace.

35:16 And yeah, that's like a beautiful way to kind of guide the shavasana and then maybe you leave. Like you can say, I'm Gonna Leave, You are at there's going to be 30 seconds of Silence, stay with this color of peace, right? Give them a little directive and then really don't go too far because you can still, you know, even 10 seconds might be a challenge for someone, right?

35:36 So that's a nice way to end. And if you wanted to add in something else to bring in that, That self-awareness again, you can say you know what one feeling? Are you feeling right now or what one word do you need to hear right now? Just having them have another moment where they can connect and receive a message from their body or their mind, can feel really empowering for people?

35:57 Wow. Yeah, those are some really good tips. Thank you. I'm glad they had their helpful, then yeah, changed my whole, my whole practice because even when I go now to more traditional yoga classes, I go through those Jim's in my mind, right.

36:10 Even, I still can't just lie there and right, not be. Yeah. So this is really helpful for, you know, if you're listening and you have some sort of trauma, that could be worked through yourself when you're practicing exactly. And then that would probably be, you know, some of these tools are obviously coming from the teacher but a lot of them they can be done for yourself.

36:30 You know you just no Don't Close Your Eyes or like these types of examples or, you know, taking child's pose and we didn't really talk about like avoiding or not, avoiding, but, like, what? Poses might be a little bit. More triggering. Yeah, so maybe we can talk about that and then I'll say what I was gonna say.

36:44 Okay. Perfect. Cool. Yeah. So pose awareness is really good thing to have in mind, mostly for yourself, like you're saying, Michael for your own practice poses that can feel overwhelming or triggering. If you've experienced like physical or sexual trauma can be poses, where you feel very vulnerable and like the lower areas. So things like happy baby downward dog. I guess like frog pose anything with your You know, as we as you know, we saw a lot of emotions

37:11 in our hips. So those areas can be very intense and you can either completely leave them out of your class. Like so instead of a flow or you're doing down dog you can have them come into table top or into child's pose and you still do everything the same but you can completely leave those out. You can also the way I started doing downward dog was, I would do it up against a wall.

37:31 So I would feel really safe knowing that there was just a wall behind me. Like no one was going to walk behind me. That used to be a fear that I had. Add like what if the teacher Walks Behind Me and like touches me. So, there was a trauma-informed class, I did with wherever we were all up against the wall and that's very safe feeling because it's like you have a little protector back there, right?

37:51 So that can be a way. If you're working through that pose, happy baby is when I still struggle with it, it's a really tough one and so I don't teach it. I will sometimes do it. If I'm feeling particularly strong or like I trust the teacher, like, so much about yoga is the teacher really creating that safe space.

38:08 Absolutely. If you trust them, Then you can trust yourself. And that's another thing with like closing eyes. The teacher can say, if you choose to close your eyes, you feel safe, please. Do I will keep my eyes open, so that I am seeing everything that's happening here. So, if you feel comfortable, closing, your eyes, and knowing that my eyes are open, and I'm watching. I'll keep you safe.

38:28 That's how I started closing my eyes and class. Wow, that's a really good. Yeah. But I needed such a subtle takes no time at all exact. But why would that make the room feel? Yes, taken care of, hmm. And you know sometimes, The teacher does also close their eyes and I always feel like I feel panicked when that happens, right?

38:44 Just because I'm like, well, what if something happens? So yeah, that's a really powerful thing because they're coming to you to be leather coming to to be under your wing if you will. So they're seeing you as as like a necessary, a protector. But people will transform a yoga teacher into whatever it is that they need.

39:02 So this subtle little language, things are these opportunities to say certain things being more trauma-informed can really make a huge difference. Now, not only just because everyone experiences trauma, doesn't need to be as intense.

39:13 As you know, your story could be something subtle and it's just going to make such a huge difference for them, of course. Yeah. And like, the body keeps the score, like all of our trauma is stored in our body, pretty much in similar areas as well. And so as you do, go through some of these more vulnerable poses.

39:26 Like as the teacher if you just have awareness and you can just say, you know, really listen to your body here. Like you're the expert on your body if something doesn't feel right modify it so that it does feel good. I think that's the best thing you You can do.

39:40 And then also, at the end of a class, I like to sometimes, give five breaths for people to just listen to what their body wants. And then you kind of give them some autonomy over how they want to move. And that way, you know, sometimes you'll get people doing the happy baby but because they're not told to do the happy baby, they feel like, okay, maybe I can try this on my own, right?

39:58 So it gives a little bit of space for that. Well, yeah, cool. So I'm going to want to talk about just one thing that I'm thinking and that is the difference between You know, having a classroom where you're, you know, or it's actually like a trauma-informed yoga class which there might those might exist, do they?

40:17 I miss him. A do exist. Yeah. Okay. But like, you know, I'm assuming that most people listening to this podcast was probably not the common thing has that and I think you know thinking about all these little tactics, if you're feeling a little overwhelmed like I need to do all this to in order to be a good teacher, I need to do all this in order to be inclusive and to be sensitive to people's needs, I would say take the pressure off a little bit and

40:39 just recognize that just your awareness in the fact that you're listening to. This is going to allow it to sink into some level. And maybe if you just adapt one of these little strategies, it's just going to make an improvement. Of course, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to build trust with your students in a way that you didn't know you could and it's just through some of these simple things that you can't even understand.

40:58 Why, exactly. But it's going to make a huge difference and you know what people will like you know probably come back and those you know this will translate into almost the business side of it where people will like you and they'll come back and they'll follow you.

41:09 They'll want to come on possibly Retreats with you and who knows? Whatever path you want to go on. So it doesn't need to be. So like oh shoot I need to follow all of these seven or eight things and well maybe we can summarize them so that people can remember them. But just I wanted to take the pressure off you know? If one of them resonates in like I can do that like I know an opportunity for me to do that.

41:27 And that sounds like something that I would resonate with first go with that. Yeah, go with that cool. Is there any other ones that you want to add to the list? There was one thing I wanted to bring back the idea of bilateral stimulation. And talk about some yoga poses, you can do that actually help with that, like help training the brain for the right and the left side to be on at the same time, okay? And that's a great thing that anyone can do whether you have trauma or not, just training

41:50 your brain to be like, really present. Like that can have really good effects on your focus on your like self confidence and belief and things like that as well. And so, just to really basic ones, or if you come into table, top position and, you know, you extend, your left hand out, kick your right hand back, and then you bring the elbow and need That's, you're engaging your both sides of the brain, right?

42:13 You'll notice when you do those poses, you have a different level of presence because you're having to coordinate these two different sides interests of your brain, right? Which is Sunbird post for those of you, okay, right.

42:23 What's it called? Sunbird, folks? Really love that. I have never heard that name for it. Yeah. Okay. Sunbirds opposite. Limbs extending when you're in tabletop. So right arm left leg or left arm, right? Like exactly. And you're basically creating a bit of a flow with it, I think is important as well.

42:37 Because you said that like basically, Maybe breathing breathing as you extend exhaling, as you bring together breathing, as you extend. Because then not only, you're probably creating that Association from left to right, but you're actually using your Prana to flow through you, exactly, right? So obviously help the entire process. Yeah, so anytime you can throw that one in really gets that mind-body integration, you know, because if you come into a warrior, your brain can kind of

43:00 shut off. You're like, okay, I'm in worried or now. So maybe your brain Isn't So activated, right? So that's one the Sunbird. Another one is, if you're maybe doing some ab exercises As you can have people come onto their backs and I don't know if there's a word for this. I think maybe bird dog.

43:16 Is it called a bird, dog? It's like, when you How do I explain this? Yeah, you're lying on your back. You bring your knees up to your chest and then you can like, extend your left leg and right arm back. And so, you're kind of doing abs in that way, like a, like, kind of like the opposite. It's like bird Sunbird but on your back, if that makes sense, okay?

43:35 Yeah. And that, like, targets your abs, right? But also any, like, if you breathe stretch your arms up, cross your arms over, right? You know, so anything like that and basically any kind of pose where you're able to connect left and right sides.

43:47 Actually together they're doing. Something similar or different? Or maybe the just activated. Yeah, right. Yeah. Like Eagle is a great one to then crossing your arms and you're crossing your elbows. Okay, Eagle pose? Yeah, just knowing as a teacher, like when you do include those, that's actually trading your students brain, whether they have trauma or not to be present and that will help them, that will have a lasting effect right for them. Well, yeah, that's cool very,

44:11 very helpful, very useful. It's cool, right? And juggling is all, I mean, you don't really juggling yoga, but I brought these little juggling balls. Okay, so that you can see like this Is what's happening like when you throw the juggling balls up here?

44:21 Literally crossing the Meridian of your body, right? From one hand, to the next hand, actually? Yeah. Anytime in yoga, you can cross the meridians and have both sides of the body going at once. Hmm, bonus points. Interesting.

44:34 Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Wow, that was, is there any other ones I'm so precarious. So that's one. Another thing that can help I guess from a trauma-informed approach is including metaphors when you're doing something like tree, you know, really helping People like instead of just coming to the tree, like, you could happen start in a seed like body close together grow up into the tree grow their branches, adding and metaphors can help.

44:58 Also people stay present with their brain and like, really integrate maybe the deeper teaching of the pose, right? So it's tripos, I always invite people to imagine, like a wind is coming and then the wind gets really strong and I actually invite people to fall out of the balance so that they get used to that. Like you think of a baby how they learn to walk? They fall like a million times a day actually, really inspiring watching.

45:17 A kid, learn how to walk and right, give me Same with tree, it's like, because, oh, I forgot to mention this PTSD. Actually affects your balance, right? So people who have experienced trauma, or like a brain injury balancing is almost impossible. Like I used to not be able to do treat period And so encouraging them like it's okay to fall out of balance. Yep.

45:36 In goddess pose. I like to have invite the visualization to imagine that you're holding a basket and things that you're grateful for are falling into the basket while you're holding goddess. So that takes away a little bit of the focus of the burning. Sensation that you can start to feel because people are thinking about what they're grateful for, right? Like getting heavier and then you can have them bring what they're grateful for into their heart like guide their hands to their heart, right?

45:59 You can do the same thing where you invite them to Envision, a feeling that they would like to let go of and release and then you can have them fold forward and pour that into the ground so you can, you can make it creative and that's something I don't see so much in yoga because I think traditional yoga is more about breath and body, right?

46:17 Guiding the But if you do want to, I've gotten really positive feedback from kind of, including little creative, things like that. Yeah, I think that's super powerful that emotional body. Not forgetting about the emotional body, it's not just the physical body, exactly, right? It's not just the mental body, right? The emotional body and one of the one of the examples that I'm going to give Paul some love here, but when you folds forward and you're kind of hanging like

46:43 a rag doll as he says, he'll say kind of like Lean Forward into your toes, like you're gonna fall forward. Don't fall forward. And just imagine all those thoughts are just dumping out of your head and to the ground kind of like that that release if you will elimination which would be up on a upon a shoe. Come on, Mike.

47:05 I wish I could help. Yeah. Upon it's the it's the Prana values. Okay, appanna meaning elimination. So basically the outward flow or the downward flow, so on an inversion like that, it's just that Metaphor that visual metaphor can help to dump out or eliminate those thoughts upon a value. I literally learned that yesterday by her and Empire – talk on it.

47:31 So very cool. I think that's a, that's beautiful. Yeah and I'm also remembering like I remember the first time I went up into a headstand I had a panic attack because my legs like kind of shot up too fast. I think I like tried to go into it too fast and I was so scared to try it again because I thought, oh my God, I could fall over, I could break my neck like Like, you know, all these fears came up and my teacher told me just just try like a tiny bit

47:54 each day like go so slowly. And so I feel like that's when it comes to language, like really eliminating the can't and focusing on the can, like, yoga is practice of can like what you can do. And then as you do, what practice, what you can, what you can do changes.

48:09 Yep. So I think that was the most transformational thing for me as a student. And whenever I hear a teacher using the word can't, I'm like, oh I wonder I kind of think of it as like a reflection of how they Of their own practice. Like, I can't do that.

48:21 That's a limitation instead just what you can do and then you're free, you know, the options are unlimited for what you can do, right? And then going back to that full circle of providing options, exactly, right. Because then it's just like, they get to choose.

48:35 You're not telling them what to do or what not to do. You're just saying option. One option, two option 3, I will however many options you want to provide but it definitely helps. Yeah. All little techniques that, you know, maybe you're doing them or maybe you're not do them.

48:49 As teachers. But this is giving you some understanding of what's what's actually happening on a deeper emotional level, to the people in the room, which is why some people feel great after your class possibly or sometimes they feel can more connected to you and they want to talk to you after class kind of gives more reason or logic to what's going on emotionally. Yeah, I think as a teacher, if you can create that safe space like you never know what people

49:11 are going through, what they've gone through and it's truly, the biggest gift you can give one hour, 90 minutes of just that safe, space for exploration. And Trust. Yeah to form. Wow, awesome is uh, is there any other reason I think that's about it.

49:26 Okay, there are so many it was like an endless list of like amazingness. I was like cool. These are super helpful and super useful. Maybe what we can do is do like a quick run through of what they were because you know we might have forgotten a few of the beginning ones. So maybe finding a simple way to just kind of run through the list.

49:42 Okay. So what were some of the ones that we just talked about? So I think the first one is like the setting up the container for safety like I Safety is key. So reminding them that you're there. As a guide, what you're saying is suggestion, you're the expert of your own body, please at any point, feel free to modify or do something different. If you feel called to the one word check-ins beginning and end of class to kind of help that self-awareness be present Choice giving options the cards if you

50:09 have them. You can also invite people in the beginning to close their eyes and you can say, if you would like to receive adjustments, raise your hand, then everyone's eyes are closed. And the people who know they want, it can raise their hand. If people aren't sure, then maybe they don't raise their hand, but that's a non kind of intrusive way to ask that question adjustments, again, really using those energetic cues to help people, like, even if they don't want the adjustments, then they can still

50:35 feel that they're getting the benefits, right? Having pose awareness. So of down, dog and happy, baby. Especially those to you can practice up against a wall. You can take them out of your flow completely, you can give a reminder that if at any point. Point either of these poses doesn't feel good for you. You can come down into child's pose and really celebrating that choice to like listen and honor your body when it comes to shavasana being mindful about

51:02 closing the eyes how that can feel unsafe and and be actually detrimental to some people in your class potentially. So inviting them to keep their eyes open gaze at one point or reminding them that you'll have your eyes open.

51:15 Adding in a little bit of a guided visualization there with light or A visual that they can focus on. And I think the language like we just talked about again, cut try to eliminate can't and really just focus on can and make making your students feel empowered to make the choices that will help them progress because that's why they're there. They're calm they're choosing to come there to work through something and to be with you.

51:41 So as positive and it is an experience, you can make it. I think that kind of yeah, covers it all empowering. Village. Yeah. So it's great. There's so much value in and the last 45 minutes that you just provided. I'm super grateful for you. Thank you, thank you for letting me share. I'm sure that people are listening that are like, wow, this is super useful and thank you for sharing your story. I know.

52:04 That's probably not. I'm sure you've shared it multiple times having done some podcast and stuff like that. So, I'm thank you thankful for feeling safe in this space, to be able to share that. Because I know that's probably not easy for a lot of people to do that.

52:16 So I just want to extend that gratitude for that because I'm sure That some people are going to possibly resonate with that. Hopefully not but possibly resonate with the story and or feel some sort of version that they can that can feel closer to you which brings it full circle. Unless there's anything else, is there anything else that you wanted to add the last thing that I wanted to add? Is that this this this acroyoga.

52:39 Oh, that's right. Talk really quickly about for ya. So, for anyone who's not familiar with acroyoga, it's actually a combination of acrobatics and yoga. So, it's kind of like doing yoga, but with a partner, Her and actually Michael and I we've done a crowd together quite a bit.

52:51 Yeah. And I, as I was struggling to get into more yoga, even after I did my 200, our training, I came to Bali to do that. I was still really struggling around that same time. I started doing a crow and what I loved about it is that I wasn't alone and I was learning to like feel my body with somebody else and there was trust and it was fun and it really, yeah, helped me to start developing like a positive relationship with not only my body but physical touch from another human.

53:19 Which for me, like a reason I used to not want to go to yoga was just because there were other people in the room. Like I was so uncomfortable with just being in a space with other people. So it really helped with that. And also the thing about a crow is like the foundation.

53:33 The first thing they tell you is that down means no essentially. So if at any point, either the base or the flyer or spotter says down, everybody works together to bring everyone back down to the ground and I remember feeling so overwhelmed the First time I said that and it was, you know, listen to and respected. I was crying because it was like, I had had my no ignored so many times, right?

53:58 And just having that feeling like, wow my my down, my know is coming back to me, right? That was what really transformed me. And helps me start feeling confident to actually go to yoga classes because I started to realize what didn't feel right for me.

54:12 And that really, it's almost like you took the power back of that word exactly your lost it before because it was like crying wolf and Happen. Exactly. But with within acroyoga, the word no is like. It's like the Bible. Exactly.

54:26 Are not know down. Sorry down but still it's, you know, they can translate to the to sew down saying like at any point in time, you can say down and everyone's job is to safely, bring people back down to the ground, such a simple thing, but see how it translates back to to benefit for you is, that's awesome. So, acroyoga is super fun and fascinating and I think one of the ways that we met actually, yeah, it's through the a community here.

54:49 And if you want to know a little bit more about a crow, we do have an episode episode 43 benefits of practicing acroyoga with Caspian Burrell. So Caspian is one of our teachers here in Bali and he's a fantastic Acro. Yoga teacher, learns so much from him.

55:03 So if you want to learn more about that you can listen to that episode, episode 43, and try it out. You can go to a crow Spirit as well. They have lots of videos that you can kind of explore and check out and you can follow them if you aren't already.

55:18 Cool. So acroyoga, last little piece to that, anything else? I just want to say thank you to anyone who's listened and thank you, to you, Michael as well. This has been a beautiful conversation and, no matter what point you are in your own Journey, whether it's as a yoga teacher and your own yoga practice.

55:35 I just think that you're adding a lot of beauty and safety to the world doing what you're doing. And I just really hope that you keep going, you know, because it can be tough even as a teacher things can come up and I think the more we can have conversations Stations especially about, trauma bringing it in and creating space for it to live the deeper, we can heal on our own as well, beautiful. So I'm thinking there's going to be some people that are going to like you and they're going to

56:00 they're going to want to maybe reach out to you. Hmm. I would love to talk to you in any form. I also host there's a new platform called Small Talk which is audio rooms and I do 20 minute nighttime kind of like again stretching three days A week and it's just audio. So, there's actually no visuals, right? Which is kind of interesting.

56:22 So that's also a place we can connect as well. Okay, so how do they do that? Maybe we can put it in the show notes. You can give it to me. Yeah, I would say through my Instagram right now, okay. Is the main way that I kind of talked about what I'm doing so yeah. Instagram Anthea, toy Burr is my Instagram and we'll have that in the show notes so that you get the spelling down. Perfect.

56:38 Cool. Awesome. Thank you so much Anthony. Yeah, I appreciate you so much super grateful for you. Definitely got a lot out of it myself. I feel way more. Informed. And I hope that our audience is as well, and they can use some of the stuff that you provided.

56:52 So thank you again. And thank you everyone for listening, we appreciate you all. If you have any comments questions, you can always reach out to us and of course, you can reach out to Anthea. So check it out in the show notes.

57:03 Otherwise, I hope you have a beautiful day and will speak to you next week.