Vulnerability, Ego, and the Hidden Costs of Always Being Right with Michael Henri

0:00 Welcome to the Going Pro Yoga podcast. My name is Michael Henry, and today we're diving into the deep human struggle and tension between authenticity and ego. So why do we fear being vulnerable? Why does admitting we were wrong feel like a personal attack?

0:19 And why do we feel shame or embarrassment when we don't meet expectations? These emotions are all connected and they shape how we show up in the world. So in this episode we're going to explore vulnerability, pride, saving face, shame, embarrassment, and ultimately they need to be right. Breaking down how they affect us, how they show up in the body, the mind, and how we can navigate them in a way that leads to growth instead of self protection. I remember a time where I felt

1:09 like it was almost difficult to change my mind about certain things in the sense that I felt like I was so right about something that I I, it was difficult for me to even be open to the consideration that I could be wrong about something.

1:25 You know, this is long time ago at this point. I can't even remember exactly when, but I would say at least probably a decade ago, there was just a certain energy around the element of being correct or being right. And I've just been thinking about it a little bit lately because of a few different reasons.

1:41 But some of the cultural, let's say, norms or societal norms, particularly in where we're living here in Indonesia, I'm noticing certain trends about not wanting to show that you don't understand or don't know something.

1:58 And there seems to be this underlying shame or vulnerability about not knowing. So for example, if I have employees or I have someone that I'm trying to hire to deuce a job and they don't actually know how to do the job in the way that I want to do it, instead of saying I actually don't know how to do that, they tend to just avoid doing the work or avoid the confrontation entirely, which is extremely frustrating in a lot of ways as opposed to just admitting like, I don't

2:31 know how to do that. You need to find someone else or I don't know how to do that, but let me see if I can learn how to figure out how to do it. There's never any conversation there. And I started to think about that and I'm like, well, as annoying and frustrating as that is, I can also relate and have compassion because I've been to those places before where I, I feel like I don't want to show this vulnerability of not knowing.

2:53 I don't want them to think that I'm stupid. I don't want them to think that I'm inferior and basically that I'm, you know, vulnerable. It can lead to things like embarrassment and stuff like that. So you kind of find that, I mean, not in all cases, but there's obviously some sort of defensiveness that can happen when we're kind of being called out, so to speak, or at least not necessarily called out, but feel like we're being called out if we're admitting a wrong or admitting an unknowing of some

3:21 sort of concept. So why is it so hard to admit this? Basically, the moment that I realized just how much the ego is actually tied into this and how it's tied into the self worth aspect, that's when I started to be like, OK, this is a podcast, we're going to talk about this. So let's actually dive in.

3:40 We're going to dive into these terms. We're going to time into some of the definitions of what some of these words mean. And like always, we'll kind of break it down from a neuroscience perspective, a yogic perspective, and come away with some practical tools and how we can kind of be better at understanding this concept and then hopefully navigate the world in a better way so that we can improve our relationships, not only just with others, but definitely with ourself. So let's start with looking at

4:06 vulnerability. Vulnerability and the fear of being vulnerable is ultimately the fear of being seen, not wanting to stand out, not wanting to be the center of attention, not wanting to have a spotlight on us. So vulnerability is the willingness to expose ourselves, to expose our emotions, our weaknesses, our uncertainties without the guarantee of acceptance, which is hard.

4:36 That's a hard thing to do. Brittany Brown, who if you don't know, she's one of The Pioneers of basically emotions and vulnerability. She states things like vulnerability is not a weakness, even though generally, especially for myself growing up, I felt like being vulnerable was a weakness. Instead, she states that it is the birth place of connection, courage, and authenticity.

5:01 So then why is it that vulnerability feels so challenging and feels so dangerous and feels so scary? Well, in the brain, vulnerability triggers the amygdala, and the amygdala is like the fire alarm in your hardware of your nervous system. It ultimately triggers a fear response, which is often related to feeling like some sort of threat is coming. So it's understandable that we feel this way. However, when we actually are vulnerable, when we are actually open and when we are able to

5:32 express and share in a way where it's received well, then it actually releases something called oxytocin, which is the bonding hormone. And that ultimately strengthens the relationship with the individual or even possibly with individuals if it's a group setting.

5:50 Now, before we kind of dive further into other elements, if we think about when we feel comfortable to actually be vulnerable, often times it's usually in smaller settings, like possibly one-on-one. Even that can be scary for some people, maybe smaller groups, 234 people.

6:09 But as soon as the numbers start to increase, it becomes even more challenging. So why is that? Probably because of that fear response of like, what are people going to think? What are people going to do? Will someone somehow use this, seeing me as an opportunity to attack or to notice there's a weak point and somehow it's going to hurt me? So when the numbers of the people around us are smaller than it feels like less of a threat and therefore a little bit more openness or

6:40 vulnerability is possible. So when it comes to large group settings or facilitation, whether it be teaching yoga or anything that involves being in front of a lot of people, it can become extremely challenging and extremely fearful.

6:56 So this is probably why one of the main, I'd say universal traumas or challenges that every human being faces is public speaking. Because of this exact thing of, of basically having the fear of being seen and that vulnerability to expose yourself to be seen with your emotions, your weaknesses, your uncertainties, possibly saying something that is incorrect, making mistakes without any guarantee of it being accepted. So before we kind of dive in, let's go into some other aspects of this topic, which is like

7:29 pride and the need to be right. So we talked about pride on another podcast and more of a positive aspect of how pride can be used in such a way to, let's say, self pride can be used in such a way to fuel and motivate us to move towards growth, move towards goals, But to rely mostly on internal pride or self pride versus external pride, where we get this kind of validation from other people. However, if we just look at the definition, pride can be both a source of confidence and a

8:02 shield against vulnerability. So why does being right feel so good? Well, admitting when we're wrong can feel like a threat to our self identity. So in the brain, when it releases dopamine or sorry, it releases dopamine when we are feeling validated.

8:22 So if we're getting this validation from external sources, then it kind of releases this effect. If we're kind of validating ourselves or giving ourselves this self pride that are also getting a bit of a dopamine hit as well. But it's not as, let's say, concentrated. Either way, it's reinforcing this desire to be right, to win, or to ultimately avoid being wrong when it comes to other people.

8:50 Now, when it comes to shame and embarrassment, this is the hiding force that actually shapes us. So the difference between shame and guilt is guilt is I did something bad versus shame I am bad. I would say that often times when we are making mistakes, we have this inner voice that might not be speaking loudly, but it might be a subconscious thought or something that was planted possibly in our youth or sometime in our life where we're feeling like if I make mistakes, I am bad, I'm no good, I'm not

9:21 smart, whatever story or narrative might be playing out. So this shame aspect of I am bad activates that same pain center in the brain as physical pain, which is why it feels unbearable at times to experience shame. And therefore, in order to avoid this feeling, to avoid shame, we want to avoid the, let's say, risk of being wrong or the risk of being exposed.

9:51 So many cultures like I described at the beginning of this episode, not just including in Indonesia, or at least maybe not Indonesia, but I should say in Bali, I can see it quite a bit. Bali has definitely a different culture and I love it in so many different ways.

10:05 So just know that before I continue with this point, but many cultures emphasize social reputation over individual feelings. And I'd say that is definitely the case here. There's more of a like a pack mentality or a village mentality here, or like a hive mentality where it's the collective, which is a beautiful thing and adds so much value in different ways. But it, it, it kind of hides this individual, it hides the individual feelings.

10:35 It hides that being seen as a, as a single person as opposed to being like, I'm a part of a community, I'm a part of a village, which is beautiful and it is true, but it's like you're also an individual as well, which ultimately results in making shame and embarrassment deeply ingrained into survival responses. So I would say something that I noticed a lot within this culture is that shame and embarrassment is something that has avoided 110,000%.

11:04 Anytime there's something that is not not known or not understood on how to do, it will almost like, almost like there's an avoidance of conflict so that they can avoid the experience of shame or embarrassment of not knowing whatever that thing is and not necessarily owning up to it.

11:23 Because that individual feeling is not really supported within the culture, or at least not from my perspective. So shame and embarrassment make us want to hide, we want to avoid, we want to basically run away. So pride makes us want to prove ourselves that we're good, that we're right, that we're not bad, and we've done something good.

11:48 So vulnerability asks us to show up fully even when we're feeling exposed, even when we have these moments where we might not be correct or we might make mistakes. So the real question is, is how do we actually find the balance?

12:03 So let's look at the nervous system. How does the nervous system actually respond to vulnerability, shame, the ego, and so on? So I've talked more about the Poly vagal theory many, many times, and I'll bring it up again, but ultimately it's related to emotional safety and regulation within your system.

12:19 So you have these three branches of the Poly vagal, the ventral vagal state, which is your safe, engaged, or what you can call balanced part of your nervous system. When we feel comfortable with being vulnerable, it's often when we're in this balanced state, or at least we have to be in this balanced state in order to feel vulnerable or to allow ourselves to feel vulnerable. If we're in more of the sympathetic state, this fight or flight, we become defensive,

12:44 argumentative, and try to prove ourselves. And then the Third Point or the third branch is the dorsal vagal, which is that freeze and shut down response, which is where we avoid, we withdraw, or we feel emotionally numb.

12:57 So those are two of the, let's say, responses that the nervous system might have in situations where it feels unsafe. So you might start off in this emotionally regulated state, but all of a sudden you're in a situation where you're being called out or feedback is given and you know there there's something that's being exposed of you making mistake or saying something that's incorrect. And instead of being open to hearing or accepting the truth of whether you're right or

13:25 wrong, there's either 2 responses that happen, that sympathetic fight or flight response, which results in defensiveness, argumentativeness, and trying to prove that you are still correct and that you didn't make a mistake, which I can relate strongly to.

13:39 I've I've had many situations like that, especially even with teaching where I've said something mostly in lecture situation where I've actually said something and then someone kind of put their hand up and they're like actually what I heard was blah blah blah blah blah.

13:54 And I'm sitting there and I could feel my nervous system spike. And unfortunately, in that moment, I wasn't able to respond very well. And I, you know, I've learned from those mistakes or I learned from those moments. And now I can handle that situation much better and accept different opinions and accept different perspectives on certain topics.

14:13 But I will give compassion and empathy to myself because in that moment, my nervous system spiked and I, it was hard for me to ever respond, let's say, more emotionally, intelligently, because I was kind of hijacked. But by doing the work of recognizing these and not trying to beat myself up and not trying to make too much of a big deal that situation and eventually kind of sitting with it and meditating with it, I recognized that I had this defensive argumentative nature to try to

14:40 prove that I wasn't wrong. And I worked through it. So now I find myself being less like that. When I do feel these moments of getting feedback or if I'm getting some sort of, let's say, exposure or someone's calling me out on something, I kind of have this more nonchalant, playful, like, oh, maybe I did make a mistake.

15:01 Oh, you know, silliness or just kind of playfulness and just kind of laughing at myself to some degree. That's more of a healthier response. But even though we can intellectually talk about it and, you know, in this situation, like in a podcast, we can talk about it in the moment when your nervous system is hijacked, it's very difficult to actually kind of go there.

15:20 So that's why talking about it now is a good thing to do. And the more that you learn about your nervous system and knowing where your nervous system is at any particular time, especially when you're doing something where you're noticing a dysregulation within your system overall, like you're feeling stressed, you're just not feeling good.

15:37 It's tapping in to be like, maybe my nervous system is, you know, hijacked. Maybe I am in this fight or flight mode or in the other situation, which I wouldn't say is as common for me is more of that dorsal vagal freeze shutdown response where there's let's just say someone's being called out or some sort of feedback is given and instead of engaging, you actually withdraw and kind of like hide A void.

16:01 And this is more of what I see, let's say culturally here and in Bali is a little bit of that avoiding conflict. Like I don't want to, I don't want to be put in the situation where I feel uncomfortable. So they just kind of withdraw and move away, which I would say is probably more so related to not wanting to feel emotions in that situation and resulting in kind of staying in this emotionally flat or numb state.

16:26 Either way, we want to try to find that comfortable place where we are OK with feeling vulnerable and open. Now, how do we do that? Well, we'll get to some of those practical elements, but why is it that vulnerability actually feels like a threat? So when the brain sees this uncertainty or the when the brain experiences this uncertainty, it sees it as danger and it triggers that fight response, which would be the defensiveness or that flight response, which is that avoidance.

16:56 Shame can push us into that freeze mode as well, making us kind of shut down emotionally. If we start to feel that shame, then we might actually start to kind of shrink and feel small. So our bodies are actually wired to protect us from rejection.

17:11 That's why admitting we're wrong feels physically uncomfortable. But when we train ourselves to stay regulated and present, we can start to lean into vulnerability instead of actually shutting down. And I would say a lot of people have a fear of being rejected at least some point in their life for different reasons, whether it be experiencing this in, you know, the playground when you're younger and not being picked in a sport or not wanting or sorry. Wanting to actually be friends

17:41 with someone and them not wanting to be friends with you. Or you liking someone and telling them that you like them and then they don't respond in the same way. Or you telling someone that you love them and they not responding in the same way. These are all moments or little glimpses of rejection that we might have kind of tackled on into our little trauma response box.

17:59 Call it our nervous system. And then we kind of have this memory ingrained in our body and we're like, that feeling did not feel good. I don't want to feel that anymore. So anytime there's a moment that triggers a similar response within our system, this wiring, basically our body tries to protect us.

18:16 And that's why we have these kind of auto responses of fight or flight that result in US basically responding in a way that is probably not the most emotionally intelligent. So this tug of war between authenticity and ego, why we fear being wrong ultimately results in admitting fault.

18:38 And if we actually did admit fault, it challenges our self-image, the way that we see ourselves. This is why we kind of fear it or we avoid it. So we associate with we associate being right with intelligence and competency. So if I'm not right or I made a mistake that I'm not intelligent and I'm not competent, I'm bad, I'm stupid. Whatever the story might be, culturally or socially, the influence there might be that some societies encourage saving face over admitting mistakes.

19:12 And that's kind of what I see a little bit more so here maybe for you, you might notice that in a different way within your your own village, so to speak. So the hidden cost of always being right, this ultimately constrained relationships, people feel unheard. If you're constantly trying to prove a point, constantly trying to defend your side, constantly trying to defend whatever it is that you think you know as being the only way and not being open to different perspectives or not

19:45 being open to hearing what other people have to say, you're ultimately going to result in other people feeling unheard. And they're just not going to want to connect with you. They're going to feel distant from you, which is something that I can say I didn't really know at the time because I wasn't open to knowing that. I wasn't open to even seeing that. But now that I've kind of worked through that, now I can see that when those moments happened,

20:10 there's an automatic disconnect versus if I actually just allowed myself to be a vulnerable and be like, oh, well, I made a mistake. Well, what are you going to do? You know, just kind of laugh it off. It almost like softens the air not only just around you, but between you and the individual or the people around you.

20:27 And I do this now when and I'm teaching lectures with like 30 people or even teaching a yoga class. In fact, if you make a mistake, you just kind of like, you know, well, I made a mistake. You know, you don't make a big deal out of it. You don't make a big scene out of it. And then you, you realize that like, oh, being right doesn't really matter because if you try to force yourself to, to kind of hold on to this, I didn't make a mistake or I am right and you know, there's nothing wrong here

20:52 and you're trying to hide it. It just puts a huge strain on yourself, the relationship with yourself, as well as the, the connection to the room or the connection to the people that are you're with. So ultimately this can block your own personal growth. So learning actually requires mistakes. So we can't actually learn, we can't actually grow unless we admit when we make these mistakes, we experience more stress and more anxiety when we are trying to hide being wrong. And this constantly constant

21:23 need to prove ourselves is what we're basically trying to do when we're we're forcing this I'm right kind of narrative. Now. The power of humility and self acceptance is what really can help overall. So true confidence actually comes with being OK with being wrong. It's totally OK to be wrong.

21:43 It's totally OK to not be perfect. We've already talked about perfectionism in another podcast, but it's the same kind of concept to some degree. Being perfect is just something that is not even possible because what is perfection? Perfection is just a matter of perspective. In fact, the Jeff, one of the many, one of the many guests that we've had on this podcast, who's also one of the philosophical teachers that we have on, he said one time that Ganesha, who is one of the Hindu

22:15 gods, the, he's basically a head of an elephant and a body of a human and multiple arms, I believe. Actually, no, he only has, actually, I'm not sure, but basically I know he has a head for an elephant and a body of a human, and he represents this imperfection.

22:33 Because, you know, that's not, that wouldn't be considered perfect. You know, an elephant should have an elephant's body and a human should have a human head's body, sorry, human head and a human body connected together.

22:43 So that in itself represents imperfection. Now the wise work, not for the fruit of their work, but the joy of the work itself. This is the wise work according to the Bhagavad Gita. So ego tells us that being right means we are worthy. Authenticity tells us that being real is what makes us worthy. So which one do you want to listen to? So if we dive more into this yogic perspective, we're basically talking about surrendering non attachment and self reflection.

23:22 So if we look at the philosophical teachings here, we're looking at Apati Graha which is one of the Yamas non attachment to being right. So letting go of the need to be right and just mental freedom like it's OK to make mistakes.

23:37 When we cling to this identity of being perfect we ultimately suffer. So if we let go of that then we suffer less. Svadhyaya which is one of the niyamas. Self study or self reflection. Instead of judging ourselves for past mistakes, we observe and we grow. So if we notice that we respond in a way that's more defensive, or we notice that we respond in such a way that's avoidant, then maybe in that moment it'll be hard to actually reflect. So later on we can self reflect

24:11 to recognize like, oh, maybe I didn't respond in the best way there. How could I have done it differently? How do I show compassion to myself to recognize that it's OK that I feel this way because I'm human and everyone feels this way at one point in time, probably multiple times. So reflection is the key to softening our defenses and opening up to learning.

24:34 And then ishvarapranidana, which is also one of the niyamas. And this is ultimately surrendering the ego, surrendering to source. So in yoga philosophy, surrendering doesn't mean giving up, even though in a lot of contexts when we hear the word surrender, it means to give up the white flag. But this is more about trusting the process of gross growth or trusting the process of change.

24:58 You are only entitled to the action, never its fruits. Another quote from the Bagita. The yogic path teaches us to let go of attachment to ego, to validation, and even to shame. The less we grip onto these, the more we become free.

25:18 So how do we practically actually do this? So how to navigate these emotions? How do we actually move on from trying to be right all the time and trying to defend ourselves or trying to avoid whenever we might not be right or noticing when we might be wrong?

25:34 We reframe mistakes as learning. This is something I've mentioned before, especially in the podcast about perfectionism. But instead of saying I was wrong, I said, oh, I learned something new. And changing that narrative in your head. Instead of saying things like I am wrong, which is ultimately saying I am bad or I am stupid, you're saying, oh, I learned something or well, yeah, I, you know, I still have things to learn or I'm still growing.

25:59 I'm continuously learning, which is such a beautiful thing. I'm a never ending student. This narrative, this perspective is so much more supportive to you, your body, your nervous system, and ultimately to the relationships around you.

26:13 So we can create psychological safety in conversations as well. So if someone actually calls you out or you start to notice some sort of feedback coming in where you're being exposed or you're feeling, oh shit, like I said something that's wrong or I said something that made a mistake, take a moment and pause.

26:30 Instead of responding or reacting right away, take a moment and sit with it and breathe, connect with your breath and notice and just be like, huh, let me think about that for a second. Actually, you know what? I think you're right. I think I made a mistake there.

26:45 Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for thank you for pointing that out. That can actually ultimately help to not only help you in that moment, but it helps your nervous system or we're all from like a learning behavior perspective in the future. So whenever you get called out again later, your fear response, your amygdala response will probably become less triggered. And this ultimately lines up with embracing humility. And when we embrace this

27:09 humility of not being perfect and not having everything sorted out, this can ultimately develop as a a strength and ultimately build our own confidence as who we are as an individual. So growth comes from being open, not from being right.

27:26 So shame, pride, vulnerability are all part of the human experience. But when we learn to step back from the ego and embrace this humility and being humble, we can open ourselves up to deeper growth, connection, and wisdom.

27:43 We don't have to let pride control us, and we don't have to let shame define us, and we don't have to fear vulnerability. The real work is in allowing ourselves to be seen fully, honestly, and without attachment to being right. So what would actually change for you if you let go of the need to prove yourself and to simply allow yourself to be a human?

28:10 What if you allowed yourself to be open to the fact that there is more to learn and there will always be more to learn? No matter how good you think you are at something, there's always going to be someone who has learned more, who has experienced more and might even know more.

28:27 And to just embrace and honor that and to respect that and to allow your ego to take a back seat and just to admit that you are an imperfect being just like the rest of us. We can all be an imperfect being together within a village, within a community. And ultimately we can still call cultivate our relationships and strengthen our relationships and also just have, you know, good old humor and laugh about being wrong or making mistakes and it being OK.

28:59 Now I recognize that in certain societies, this is something that is basically created early on. It makes me think of, like, going to school early on and, you know, making mistakes and the teacher calling you out or, you know, I'm sorry, that's not correct.

29:13 And, you know, depending on how teachers handle those situations or depending on how other students might respond to when you make mistakes that they might laugh or they might giggle. These are things that ultimately have embedded some sort of imprint or some scar within our system that makes us feel like we want to avoid this shame.

29:31 We want to avoid this feeling again. But even though we've all experienced certain elements of this in different ways throughout our life, it doesn't mean that it has to continue to be that way. And we can shift that. We can let go of that.

29:44 So reflect on recent moments where you have helped pride, shame, or possibly defensiveness, and how did it actually feel? Can you tap into like where your nervous system was when you were in the state of defensiveness? And if you could do that again, what would you do differently when you're in the state of more balance or you're feeling more grounded? Is there a way that you could have responded differently? Is there a way in which you could have handled that situation differently, which

30:14 might have resulted in some sort of different response? So I'd suggest for this week, try practicing that a Parigraha letting go or that Savad Yaya, which is all about self study this week. So just reflecting back on moments when you're noticing yourself being defensive and letting go of that. Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in this week. As always, I'm excited to hear feedback, and if there's anything that I said that might need to be criticized, please do so.

30:44 I'd always love to hear what you guys think. This is how I grow. This is how we grow. This is how we all learn. So thank you so much for tuning in. You can reach out to me on Instagram. Otherwise, you can send an e-mail at podcast@goingproyoga.com.

30:56 Thank you so much for tuning in. And one last thing I'll mention is I'd love for you guys to help support our podcast by give us giving us a star review. So if you haven't done this already, I'd love for you to go to Spotify, go to the main podcast page and just give us a five star review love.

31:12 I'd really appreciate it. Or if you listen on Apple Podcast, you could do the same. It only takes a few seconds and it really helps to grow our podcast in such a way that we can continue to share this free resource with other people throughout the world. Thank you so much, and we'll speak to you next week. Take care for now.