Ashtanga vs Vinyasa: Find Your Style with Byron de Marsé and Alyssa Goldberg

0:00 Hey there, Before we get started on this week's episode, I would love to ask for your support by reviewing this podcast. We want to share yoga with as many people as possible and this free resource. This podcast is one of the ways that we can do that. And the best way that you can help support us is by giving us a review.

0:16 So if you go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever podcast platform you use, Scroll down until you find that star review and then give us some love. Thank you so much, and let's get started with this week's episode. Can we just give people permission to be and to know that that's OK? To be sad, to be happy, to be real, to be fake, but know that you're being fake, You know, to be embodied, to be open, to be closed.

0:40 It's a choice. So feeling that choice, but also feeling the feeling. Yeah, and that that that jogged my memory too, because it had to do with feeling. You have to because of the connection thing. Again, it's the disconnection. A lot of people aren't is in tune with themselves to really. They need to be kind of told what to do and in the order to do it because they're not connected enough to really trust themselves.

1:05 Welcome to the Going Pro Yoga Podcast. If you love yoga as much as I do, then this podcast is for you. We talk all things yoga related for teachers in order to supplement and complement and even support after a 200 hour Yoga teacher training.

1:22 Or if you've never done a training before, this podcast is all about just learning more about yoga in an authentic way. Together with Paul Tioto and Byron De Marseille, we put together this podcast to provide you with a free resource to learn more about yoga. Whether you want to share yoga or teach yoga or just practice yoga, this podcast is talking all things yoga related And we're trying to talk from the teacher's perspective and also the students perspective to make

1:46 sure we get a full 360° angle on what yoga is all about and how it's evolved in the modern world. Welcome to our podcast. Welcome back to the Going Pro Yoga podcast. Michael, here are your hosts and today we have two guests in the house.

2:00 Byron De Marseille. Hello Byron, hello, my first time and Alyssa Goldberg as well. Yay. So both on the podcast before several times and now this is going to be the first episode of a three-part series talking about empowerment flow, empowerment flow. So just kind of revealing or maybe just diving a little bit deeper into what that means if you experienced an empowerment flow class before then this is kind of an element of that. But we're going to kind of

2:27 deconstruct it a little bit more of what the essence of that is. And for today's episode, we're going to focus more on what we would call permissions or the the evolution of the needs of people or students or those who are practicing yoga beyond just the physical needs. Like, you know, you know, we talk a lot about modifications and variations to make yoga accessible to everybody type, which is really nice.

2:53 But what about everybody That is not just the physical body, but like the person, like their emotional needs, their mental needs, these types of things. So giving more permissions in a yoga class so that people can feel more empowered, I think that's the essence behind it. Is that about right or did I butcher it? What do you guys think?

3:10 I think you just gave a good like definition of what permissions means to you and I like it great. So what does permissions mean to you that maybe you can fill in some gaps? Permissions. Well, I think there's like the the kind that are unconsciously set and then the kind that are consciously set.

3:34 Right. So things like behavior, things that may be intentional, intentional or non intentional, can set permissions for people to feel like they can be themselves or like they can essentially just trust their surroundings. So on a basic level I would say that's what a permission setting is.

3:55 And then on a relatable level, think about your desktop computer. You go to the permission settings and you set you know what you toggle right and left on and off. What do you want your desktop to look like? So as a facilitator, teacher, or whatever you want to call that role, you are doing this in any yoga class for sure, right? No cell phones, for example, Toggle off, honor your body. OK, this is a class where we want you to honor your body and there's a toggle on, you know,

4:32 to honor your body. So when it pertains to empowerment, more permission. More permission. And yeah, I'm sure you know, Alyssa will have a lot to say on that too, but I think unless she goes here to talk about like, the history of yoga would probably be helpful.

4:53 OK as well. So why don't we do that and then we can jump back? Oh, we'll go to the history. We'll shoot. What is the history? Well, how? Well, I mean, this could be a very long episode. Yeah, I think. Why don't we do a Has there been one?

5:06 Has there been a History of Yoga episode? Not that I'm. Familiar with We've definitely talked about it a lot. Like whether it was a recorded or not. I don't remember ancient yogic techniques blended with modern healing arts right.

5:22 So well, part of it's just thinking about what was yoga like. I mean just 20 years ago, just go back to what more people can remember. For some people that's even too long. But I can go back about almost 20 years ago to think about what that what that's like group classes.

5:41 It's still pretty much like that. It's still pretty much the same experience where you have a a group class, multiple people in the same room, potentially diverse, following the leader, which would be the teacher. But then you go back, you know, you're using your imagination a little bit here, but like yoga was shared one-on-one only at one point thinking about, you know, Ashtanga yoga when that was born and invented or whatever you want to call it by

6:12 Patavi Joyce, student of Krishnamacharya, taking Ashtanga yoga to the Western world and having a superstructure like permission to follow this structure, but nothing outside of that structure. In fact, that would be going against Ashtanga yoga. You're not practicing Ashtanga yoga if you go outside the structure.

6:34 So I think about that, I think about the Ashtanga yoga, the Super structured, the real rigid structure and then contrasting that head on like deconstructing that completely like going with anti structure, anti structure. And that's what empowerment flow and empowerment yoga really is at its foundational, foundational level. You might need to know a little bit about Ashtaga yoga to understand what that means.

7:05 But you follow a set sequence, you do the same poses over and over and over again. You're not even encouraged to move your arms differently in a sun salutation for example. Each round you want to mimic the same exact pattern with your arms and that can, you know that's that's even vastly more structured than Dinyasa yoga. Dinyasa has more elements of freedom within it, but depending on the instructor, the teacher, whatever, they might make you feel like you got to follow

7:34 their sequence. You can take a child's pose, maybe not. So the empowerment really embraces and and and even though whoever's teaching it can give it their own individual permissions, it's still about welcome everybody like you, You can follow the yoga class.

7:51 You cannot follow the yoga class. You can process information in so many different ways and want you to welcome yourself completely. Welcome yourself onto the mat. And not to bypass that as as just the thing you say, but to really to mean it genuinely, to sincerely let people know that like, you can do almost anything in this class and it's cool. In fact, it's inspiring.

8:20 Yeah, I think of permission as, in a way, a sense of freedom. But it's a specifically intentional freedom. So you are actually actively opening up the space for somebody to free themselves to some to their own level of what they're ready to do and really where what I think of is we have so much and we're overstimulated, right?

8:49 We have cell phones, computers, jobs, There's 8,000,000 things happening around us all the time. And so I think the modern mind has a lot more happening. There's a lot more activity. And because of that, it can be hard and really challenging for people to find even just the time to step out onto their yoga mat.

9:10 Whether that's real or a story that's created, it exists and I can experience that myself. Where you come off of a long day of work and you're like, I know yoga will feel good, but also I just want to go get into bed and watch Netflix or have a different experience. So for me why I was initially attracted to empowerment, flow and to this permissive style was because you then have like the autonomy to make the class what you need it to be. So if you need the class to be

9:44 something then different than what the person in front of you is offering, that is like from the start offered to you. And that way you know we have so many different outlets that we go to. But I found that for me, I could like, kind of combine a lot of the outlets into one class and really reach my mind, my heart and my body all at the same time, in my own time. OK.

10:08 So this is obviously very different from the structured yoga that probably a lot of people are familiar with, right? They come in and they're expected to be LED and follow the rules of the class, the rules of the yoga sequence or asana. And, you know, not to play dumb because I'm very familiar with what empowerment flow is, but just, you know, kind of advocating for the audience, you know, it's it's quite a contrast of that, right?

10:33 It's not about the structure of the sequence and stuff like that. And it's, you know, there is a sequence involved, right? There's an awesome a sequence involved, but you don't necessarily have to follow it. There's there's a lot of permissions to do different things in an actual physical yoga class, obviously within reason of respect to the room and in the other people in the room. So very contrasting to what some people are probably familiar with.

10:56 Some people probably need that discipline, that structured approach. But what I'm hearing and also just the evolution of people's needs, ours, there's a lot of people that need permission to feel like they do have more power in themselves, so they're not feeling like they are always being told what to do and they can actually make choices themselves, right? Yeah, absolutely.

11:14 I think there's a balance of both. I think that we need both in our lives. But in a masculine driven society where there is so much discipline and structure, I think that to have this as something that still gives you structure, but also freedom, like real freedom at the same time is really unique.

11:33 And I think that we all are seeking balance to some degree. So to have an offering that gives you that? The the real key I think to this is physical freedom. I think we, you know, we because of our intellectually stimulated, overly stimulated potentially society, there's a lot of freedom of mind. There's a lot of exercises, a lot of, you know, artistic, you know, painting and drawing and then there's math, You know, there's a lot of training of the

12:07 brain. There's a decent amount of like therapeutical things for emotional as well. There's church and things like that. For spiritual, there's definitely meetings and different. You know, yoga is essentially a spiritual practice too. But for physical freedom, like, we don't really have that. Maybe dancing.

12:32 Ecstatic dancing. I can't think of a whole lot of places where people are just encouraged to do whatever the heck you want physically. You Can Dance or not dance. You can do yoga or not do yoga. Like, here's some yoga poses that are meant to move energy and to balance you out.

12:51 But maybe you don't need that today. So you have the freedom to not do it, but because of the expectations that might be present in some in they are present. Everybody's going to have their own expectations. I watch it every week.

13:09 You have to help dissolve those expectations. So to really, like I said, sincerely and genuinely like mean these things, that's the key to the permissions. And so in order for that to happen, you can't just say you can do whatever you want in here except for these two like respect people in the room. You know, you want to set some boundaries too, but that's not going to work because people are, they're going to be like, well, what do we do?

13:34 They're used to, they don't know what to do. Exactly. They're also they need to be led to some level, or they they feel like they need to anyway. Yeah, so you so you direct them. You direct them to what is possible. Right, you just.

13:45 Give them options of what they can do. You know, just like I did dance yoga, right? Whatever you want to do. Journal, shake, Go outside, Leave the room. Don't leave the room. You know, make a noise. Sing, but respect. You want to bring in the word respect as well, because that's a permission. That's really important.

14:06 Respect others in the room, otherwise they won't feel safe either. I think the very confronting thing about permission is that when we're actually given it, it's the reaction of now what do I do with it? What do I do with that freedom? What do I do with that permission? I've been wanting freedom.

14:22 I've been wanting someone to just say do whatever you want with this project, do whatever you want, like have this freedom. But then when we're actually met with it, it's a very interesting moment for the mind to go. So now that I have the space, now that this guide, this person up front is telling me that I can do whatever I want in a yoga class, what am I going to do? And then we kind of go blank because we're not used to that. So for me, that was what made

14:47 the class so exciting at first was every time I would just go, I don't know, let me throw a new dart against the wall and go, maybe I'll dance. Maybe. Maybe I thought of myself as a very still person, but I'm actually somebody who loves to move.

15:01 Or maybe the opposite. So it opens up a world of opportunities for us to start to discover more about ourselves through the permission. You can also, you can also fake it when it comes to a lot of different, I don't know, like I can pretend to have like a set of meditation.

15:27 I can just sit there with my eyes closed. I could even bolt without going through all the the different potential things I could fake. When what what Alyssa's saying made me think of this because like it's kind of hard to fake dancing, you know, like I'm going to either move my body or I'm not. I might be bad at dancing or I might be good or I might be self-conscious of my body or I might not be self-conscious. So that's why I think, like, ultimate freedom is amazing. But if you don't add the

15:59 physical freedom in there, it doesn't offer the same level of, let's say, the same level of awakening freedom. Same level of freedom. Like, yeah, the the fool, the total freedom. Like it has to be in the body. It has to also be in the body. Yeah.

16:23 For people to to really have that moment where they're like, what? That person over there is, like, moving like crazy. They're probably a dancer or stripper or something like, oh, I guess whatever I got. No, that's not me. That's not me.

16:33 Wait, why is that not me? Oh, my gosh. Like, why am I doing this right now? I'm gonna move. I'm gonna do this. And then all of a sudden they're like doing something they would have never done had the permission not been set.

16:45 And there's that. Fake it or make it kind of quality. Where actually sometimes I think there is benefit to you can't like you're just going to do it if you're going to start dancing, just start dancing and let loose. And then maybe you realize you are the dance person, you know. And so I think there's room for us to find things out about ourselves that we didn't even know. Because when you watch other people stepping outside of their comfort zone, it is pretty

17:10 inspiring to go, OK, let me, let me maybe find what's outside my comfort zone. And then the zone just got a lot bigger and what you can do from the zone and in your life starts to get a lot bigger, right? So this is, this is great, and it's good to deconstruct and talk about it, especially, like, in front of an audience, right? Talk about what this means?

17:32 Because I'm imagining there's some people that are, like, hearing like, OK, there's the freedom to do whatever they want that might actually feel scary. Like, I don't know if I want to take that class, right? Because like, what's going to happen? Sounds like anything could happen, right? So obviously there's a lot of a setup for this type of experience.

17:49 You kind of alluded to it, but like you know, there's there's a structure or an introduction to what this class structure would be or this class experience would be, which is very unique. It's different from, you know, traditional yoga class 'cause you're just expecting this like sequence to fall.

18:05 They're basically all not the same, but they they would all fall into the same category of a structured class, whereas this is just so very different from all of those things, right? So there's an obvious there's there's like a you need to inundate or you need to combos like help people understand what this experience is before you actually start the experience, right. Big part of that.

18:26 Permissions are like, if you said everything to like you could do anything and here's all the things you could do, it's kind of a mindfuck because the IT makes you think, well, there's so much to do, I can't even. It's overwhelming. That's what the feedback will be Sometimes for for certain people, they're like, I'm just overwhelmed. I don't know what to do and that's because you have to find your no, what you're not going to do. And that's the that's the actual

18:53 key to the empowerment is to get to the no. The yes's are all there already. Yes, you can't, but you can't say yes to everything. You have to say no to something and that's when true empowerment actually happens. So that's where now, that's why this is even important, is to help people get to that that, no.

19:15 OK. So it's it's almost like a polarizing effect. You might not necessarily be pushed in the direction of the want, but if you're presented with another thing, that might be the thing that you realize that you don't want and then it might reveal the thing that you do want. Is that kind of, Yeah.

19:30 Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, so the scariness of of this permission of like, oh, do whatever you want. It's like, well, I don't know what I want to do, but then you give this option and they're like, why do I want to do that? And then it's like, OK, now they're one step closer to figuring out what they do want to do. Freedom is scary.

19:46 It's why, you know, I would say that we are kind of resistant to change sometimes as human beings is because who knows what comes next? It's the unknown. So I would say that this class can be intimidating if you're very comfortable in structure. But I would also say that it doesn't. I think all of us, for the most part, are willing. Or crave to some degree to find that openness and to see what less structure would feel like.

20:17 So whether that's very conscious or even deep in the subconscious, I think there is something very attractive for a majority of people if the space holder is spending time to create a safe space. Because that is not something to be overlooked is you don't just walk in and see some like topless person running around being like free yourselves.

20:39 And you know, like, I mean maybe if anything's possible, but not in the class is the Byron or I have taught of this that I've seen at least, but there is a say. One of the rules, I said, I say one of the only rules is you have to keep your clothes on. That's because we're in a public space. And so I think with that, when you create a lightness but a firmness around safety and make people feel comfortable to step outside of their comfort zone or to step into the unknown, the class automatically starts to

21:10 become a little less scary, and the permission starts to feel like an opportunity rather than something you're dreading. OK, cool. So just bringing you back to like, you know what people are familiar with, which is a, you know, a yoga class with structure and sequence and all that stuff. But you know, some teachers will provide an element or a moment of freedom to, you know, practice a flow that they want. Or, you know, take some, take the next few minutes to practice your inversions or or a pose

21:38 that you're working on or something like that. And then the teacher will go around the room and kind of support. So that's like a small section version of an entire class, right? So bringing it back to like, OK, if I'm listening to this episode and I'm like, cool, it sounds like an interesting class.

21:52 But like, what does this mean for me as a teacher? Like, does that mean I can, I can influence my class in a way to provide more permissions? Like, how do I do that? How do I start small? Because it sounds really, like you said, intimidating to some level.

22:03 Like, is there a possibility for me to even consider how this might shift my teaching style? Or just conversation style basically? I just got asked a question from a student on the teacher training today and he was like, I don't I I imagine that how do you teach a class where you want people to not do what you say, which was a really interesting perspective because naturally, for the most part, when we're guiding yoga, I think we are taught to watch that people do

22:34 what you say. And I even heard another yoga teacher talking about this the other day how she would get frustrated when you were at do what people weren't doing what the what you were telling the class to do. And I think all yoga teachers have that moment of why aren't they all in downward facing dog or why are that you know you.

22:51 So to restructure how we even look at a class and to go, wow, how can I encourage everybody to do what they need and not be in my own experience and not selfishly want everyone to be in a warrior one if it doesn't work for their body.

23:09 And so to start speaking to that in a class is really, really powerful where people feel empowered to rest when they need to rest, to modify when they need to modify. And I think actually shifting your own perspective of when you're walking around a class and commending somebody who is in a child's pose or you know, as long as it's all being done in a Safeway, but when people are meeting their needs, honoring that and creating space for that.

23:40 Yeah, I think that's a huge beast there for sure. Honoring people's, you know, choices, right in in, you know, Class A couple days ago when we do the hatha and all three of us were there, Byron was leading the class, We were adjusting and there was a woman that she, you know, I went over and gave her a little adjustment on her lower back, just kind of gentle.

23:59 She was doing a Sukasa to forward fold and she just kind of she's like, Oh my back's. I just realized my back's kind of tweaking a little bit. She's like, I realized I probably shouldn't have came back to yoga and I could hear her just like self doubting and self you know, sabotaging a little bit. And I was just like, hey, I was like, you know, if you want you can just like lay on the mat, you know, if you want you can do like some of the poses you can

24:19 modify. You know, if you do 50% of this class that's still yoga. She's like she didn't really know how to handle that at first. She kind of, like, looked at me and she's like, thank, thank you. I needed to hear that. And then she stayed. She didn't leave.

24:32 And then I actually watched her and she ended up doing most of the class anyway. But I think she was kind of got on this route of like, oh, shouldn't be or I should leave. Like, I, you know, I have to follow the structure of this class, otherwise I'm not accepted kind of thing.

24:43 So that was another example that kind of came through and I thought of, you know, you as a teacher, Byron would have totally said something similar where you just been like, yeah, you know, do what you need to do. It's all good kind of thing. Yeah, three things come up and they all happen to start with the letter E ego, expectations and experimentation. So all kind of all over the place there. But it starts with experimentation and the mindset of in order to become ego less,

25:17 less ego. I'm not gonna say like, death to your ego, necessarily. Like where? You forget your name, but to actually mean what you say there has to be a some sort of resolve to your own ego. Which means you need to look at. At least for me it helped me to look at the the yoga practice as an experiment.

25:42 It's a science of self realization where we are experimenting with energy and we are so disconnected in my opinion as human beings from the truth, which is always changing by the way, but the ever evolving truth, that alone tells you that how disconnected we are, we don't even know it's changing all the time. And so the expectations of somebody that wants to go to yoga to learn these poses they saw on Instagram or in a magazine or their friend, you

26:16 know, is so flexible, They want to be like that. Getting to those expectations can be quite a challenge in this day and age. And so if you don't do your own work to help your own ego soften to where you truly believe what you're saying, then you are going to care.

26:34 You're not going to be able to guide to class like that. And I I be honest, like I don't think I was ready to guide to class like that for a while. Took a while for me to to really be like, oh, wait a second, it's an experiment, OK, now I'm like, OK, this is an experiment. You're in an experimental moment right now. I do still have my certain things that pet peeves like I'd rather you not do pigeon pose when we're you know doing something completely different.

27:00 I. Do that, sorry. No, no, That's if it's at the end of classes. OK, cool down. It's different. But I'm talking about, and I'm not talking about an empowerment yoga that now I'm talking about vinyasa or power. Yoga. I'm just checking my own ego and going, I definitely go, I just say go pigeon.

27:16 When they tap out of like a yeah, confronting in their in their exercise like fitness levels. You know those moments where it's like, OK, we're doing some core now, I'm going to do pigeon now in empowerment. God bless you. That's amazing.

27:32 Do that. But you know there is some sort of order that is going to be followed to some degree you don't want unless you're going to do empowerment. That's why it's nice to have these boundaries which we can call like this is a power yoga class.

27:45 Here's boundaries of what is an empowerment yoga class like. Here's boundaries of what a yin yoga class is like. I mean is any Class A yin yoga class? Truly, no. You have to move your body and create some sort of like energy to move it and then relax and a yin. But we've accepted that as three to five minute holds, You know where you get into your connective tissue and relax. So you got to create some kind of structure. So that's really what the empowerment structure is. Now dissolve expectations.

28:15 Best you can work on your own ego so that you truly mean it what you say. Otherwise they won't believe it's OK and experiment. Like that's what this is just a it's a lab. This is just an experimentational lab for you to to get more connected with yourself and with your truth. It's funny, another E is coming up to be right. Embodiment is my E additional to the to the table. I'd like to know embodiment for 500, because what I would encourage is like within reason,

28:48 don't go to single pigeon during, you know, the first plank. But for yoga teachers, I actually think it's a really healthy exercise to start to honor if you don't already like your own needs on the yoga mat and just tap into if you are somebody who tends to push or if you're somebody who tends to do less and like what those two ends of your own personal spectrum look like.

29:15 Because then I think if you're embodied in that and you're like, oh, it actually felt really nice to rest when I normally wouldn't rest. Or it actually felt really good and challenging to push myself. When normally I would just drop my knees down to child's pose and just start checking yourself and understanding how it works for you.

29:33 If you embody that, that builds trust in the room, you know. I think trust can be built through embodiment. Because if you are walking the walk and talking the talk, people feel that on you. And so if you say take Child's Pose whenever you need, because you've experienced dropping into Child's Pose when you needed it and it wasn't being offered out loud, I think it comes through more authentically and more powerfully than if you just are like take Child's pose if you

29:59 need Child's pose, but you're not the person whoever actually honors that for yourself. Yeah, that's true. People can probably feel that just the way that it's said, they'll be like, oh, they're just saying that because it's sounds like a script versus an actual.

30:12 They really mean that. They learned it. It's like, yeah, this table is made out of wood. I think. I don't even know. Obviously you wouldn't listen to me because I don't even know. Is this wood? I think it's wood. And I have no idea what, like how you would cut this wood.

30:25 It's just beautiful rounded edges to it. I'm not the guy to listen to with wood, right. I bet you're better at it than me. And I bet there's someone out there better than you at this. But you'll feel it and know when somebody's talking about how to cut a rounded corner on a table. Right.

30:42 Yeah. Like there's a craft. Or like a Yeah, deeper knowing. Yeah. Right. For sure, which is usually from experience. And to me, that is an embodiment. Embodiment is all of it's In Sync. It's all connected. If you want to talk like, know how to make pasta, you know, you go to like a pasta maker, somebody who makes it from scratch. You don't go to the the person who wholesale buys the pasta that's frozen from the person who made it from scratch and resells it.

31:13 And that's what's happening all over the world with yoga, yeah. Just recycled cues and recycled tactics and which is teaching strategy. To do it until you find your own way, but it's not sustainable in my opinion to to really have a lifestyle slash career if you keep showing up that way dreams you. It's also just a good practice for life, You know, Take it out of yoga teaching or yoga practicing. Try resting.

31:41 Try pushing yourself. I think as a collective, we can all benefit from spending a little bit more time getting to know the edges of our own potential. And I think that's what empowerment flow really opens the door for is can you find new edges for yourself?

31:55 Can you go to a new part of you that you haven't been in before? At least not in a yoga space especially. Yeah. OK. Empowerment flow. Empowerment flow. Wow. Then luckily, like yoga has all of the there's been enough research done over the millions of years. I said millions, Just 'cause I didn't want to say like 1300. I don't know the exact number.

32:25 There's been so many people that have been studying themselves and human nature that it's already there, it's already been done. You know, that's that's the the added bonus to being able to teach this stuff. To allow people to discover what's already there, Yeah, which is themselves or elements of themselves.

32:51 You just think you just. Have to like, you know, find a few things that resonate with you on a deeper level philosophically and then wake up in the morning and apply them to your day and repeat that and keep repeating it and then move on to the next lessons and keep integrating them.

33:13 Beautiful. OK, so giving more permissions to help people feel more empowered, which this class is basically fully centered on that. And then just kind of relating it back to people who have already, you know, they're somewhat familiar with giving permissions like take child's pose and stuff like that in giving, you know moments of free flow or you know opportunity to do what the people want. The yoga mat, it needs to be more intentionally said or like authentic in its delivery for it

33:47 to be most effective not just in the most effective of people actually doing what they want, but for people to actually feel the truth of what's being said, which is yes you can do whatever you want. Yes, you you actually can take child's bows like you know, without saying the words of like no one's going to judge you. It's totally acceptable.

34:03 Like do what you need to do. Like this is great. Like, I applaud you like kind of thing, which I can imagine a lot of that doesn't probably come across as authentic in a lot of a structured yoga classes that currently exist with, you know, Yadashtanga or Vinyasa or just the way it's that certain teachers have learned is that there's a, there is the way this is the way that it needs to be or this is the structure of the sequence or that doesn't make sense because of this.

34:26 So it can't be that way. So really kind of struck, stuck within the rigid confines of, you know, a yoga class. So this is just kind of so different from that. Yeah, and there's something beautiful about repetition and structure. I mean, so not to discount Las Chaga yoga, but I do go back to connecting on a deeper level to yourself and back to the physical, the physical element of of freedom, and had a fleeting thought as well.

35:01 Might come back to me in a second, I'll. Chime in What? When it comes back, you can let me know. I mean, what's really coming back from up for me is permission to feel. And I think that is emotions and feelings are such a big part of yoga, but they're not really talked about in the yoga space.

35:24 We we tend to kind of get in for our one hour power hour class and get out and we talk about breath. I think a lot of teachers worldwide do a great job of talking about breath and the importance of, you know, getting to the meditation and the shavasana.

35:36 But I think that there's something really important in the emotions that we're all experiencing as human beings who have relationships. And yoga is a life practice. It's not just an asana. So to me, that's a really important part of the permission is, can we just give people permission to be and to know that that's OK to be sad, to be happy, to be real, to be fake, but know that you're being fake, you know, to be embodied, to be open, to be closed.

36:03 It's a choice. So feeling that choice, but also feeling the feeling. Yeah, and that that that jogged my memory too, because it had to do with feeling. You have to because of the connection thing. Again, it's the disconnection. A lot of people aren't is in tune with themselves to really they need to be kind of told what to do and in the order to do it because they're not connected enough to really trust themselves.

36:27 So it helps to think about what works for me, like how did that feel when that was said to me? How do I feel? Like, for example, like you said, the word make you make them feel safe earlier, you said, you know, make them feel safe. And if somebody says make me feel safe, my I'm in my head already.

36:49 To help somebody feel safe makes me feel safe, right. So it's like to just think about what actually works for you. Yeah. And then apply that into your language, basically. So you have to be very careful about what to say. It's about what you say or any more what you don't say, actually, too.

37:13 And there's an art to that. And it starts by probably practicing it in your classes, just little by little. Just here's the introduction. Hey, everybody, Welcome to classes. Anybody have any injuries? Oh no. Oh shit. I shouldn't ask that, you know, 'cause I don't, I don't have time to answer. Oh gosh, you have lower back thing. OK, please take care of yourself, but at least start to to think about what you're saying while you say it. And then try not to get in your

37:40 own way and judge yourself and just try again the next class and be like, you know what I think? I'm not. I'm going to do a different way this time until you start to find things that resonate and then just repeat those things. Yeah.

37:52 And I think that's an easy way to just start doing it in your classes. So what about if someone's thinking, Well I feel, I feel like I would be walking on egg shells worried about what I'm going to say and if I offend people because I mean shit, people get offended from anything, anything and everything.

38:08 So that in itself is already scary. So now giving, you know, saying things and possibly being what we would call polarizing and like to certain extremes of what people may resonate with, they were completely despised or be triggered by what I'm hearing. And not to give the answer, but it's more about experimentation of just like saying and seeing and you know, as long as it's authentic and true in you and you're not being disrespectful in any way, whatever that those

38:35 those words might be or the the option or the choice in the classroom, then if someone, let's just say likes it, then they're like, cool, I'm going to do that. But I also know that part of the technique of this is to to provide the opposite as well. So if it's like, you know, you say this one thing, hey whatever it is and half the room's like yes, and the other half's like. Fuck that.

38:57 Right. But then you also say, or you can do B, which is the complete opposite of A, right. And then now those other people are like, yes, that's what I want actually. So now you have a lot of the rooms very happy because they're both getting what they want, right? Yeah.

39:11 Yes. Cool. I would say yes. Yeah, great. And there's there's different archetypes of people, you know, we like. So what? What's what's going to feel permissive to you? And your life experience is going to be different. You and I are going to have different ways that we feel safe in a yoga room. Different words, different body language, different sound of voice, different music or no music. So just knowing that we can do our best consciously and cautiously, to speak with

39:42 awareness, to enter the space with awareness, to intentionally offer these things. And you're always going to. There's always going to be somebody who isn't going to vibe or jive or whatever the word is with what you're doing.

39:58 That's good feedback too. Like, because how else are we going to change the things We say that it could have been very true, that you could have said things differently and that person would have been OK, that's possible.

40:13 But the you if you don't get that feedback ever, then then how are you ever going to try something new? So you're basically exercising the same principles within your own. You know, you're given full permission as well through your own trial and error and then learning like, oh shit, every time I say that thing, like it feels weird, like maybe I'm going to try it differently this time. Like, for example, I love sports, you know, like if somebody makes a sports analogy

40:40 in a yoga class make that makes me feel super welcome in the class. I know that sports don't hit a lot of people in yoga, cause a lot of people in yoga, or at least if it is sports, it's not the same kinds of sports, you know, like American football and baseball and basketball.

40:59 But you got to think about the archetype of that, like what is a sport? OK, it's competitive so there's right there. There's an archetype of something you can start to speak to competition, you know, it's physical. It's an opportunity to you know, work on community, you know, teamwork.

41:23 You know those kinds of there's different things within each thing you love. You know, if you go into the artistic world and you're a painter, you know, you've got all kinds of different things to work with there. You've got abstract art that makes absolutely no sense to some people. And you have like watercolors, you know, like with the children.

41:44 And, you know, my grandma used to do that. Yeah. So. And what is that? You know, OK Wow. That one is like kind of weird sketched and like hard. It's like, whoa, That's a way different thing than watercolors are like the color palette, you know, like only blue and green make a heart in the house and a yard and a family and a hug and you know, and so I don't know I'm going a bit off, but I think there's valuable information and literally everything that if you

42:08 just break it down, don't look at it like to like look at one thing and really get specific with it. I think there's a lot of good stuff in there. OK, cool. You you look like you wanted something to add Something or no, just holding the mic close 'cause you're ready. I'm.

42:23 Just I'm just just in case, you know, it's like you ready or not. Yeah, I think. I think Alyssa likes the mic and the mic likes a. Little we're we're kind of two peas in a cod. I feel like a pop star right now, yeah. It's nice. And then a pop star.

42:34 Like, what is a pop star? OK, it's fame and the pop star, you know, they don't even write their own music. You know they just they but they're good at performing and they want to be up there and. They might, they might write their own music that's non pop. Pop stars.

42:48 They might. They might. I don't want Dua Lipa calling canceling us, going proud. It's. A good a good point. See, you gotta be sensitive. See. I wouldn't. Learn. See, it was permission, but the the space felt safe enough.

43:00 I felt permission to to gently bring Dua Lipa into this, I mean. It's all important, basically. Walking in egg shells. Just I I just don't, yeah, I don't want anybody to hear that's hearing this. It's what that's listening to. Like, be super careful, but you might have to try to be super careful for a little bit, but then don't be like don't live in that world where you're just super careful all the time. I find I can think of examples of people in my life that have done that or do that.

43:28 And it does not serve. It does not serve to be what you might It's not true to who you are all the time. So don't be afraid to ruffle some feathers here and there, you know, to say the thing that's on your mind, that might be the thing that has actually, like the polarizing thing that gets somebody to say no. So yeah, I would say that's some advice. OK, cool.

43:53 So a lot of this exploration or experimentation of words and choice and kind of putting things out there and also just kind of getting this feedback is an overall opportunity for people to either, like I said, resonate with something or realize that they don't resonate with that, which helps to bounce them, springboard them into the direction of hopefully something that they're more in desire of. That's that's essentially it.

44:19 Exactly. If they are distasteful from your class or something, you said the exact same thing, you've just helped them move on to the next thing that they can say yes to. Right. Which might be another class. And it doesn't have to be your class because they might not resonate with this style of class. So no need to walk in and shells because it's like, you'll attract the right people.

44:40 Yeah, and maybe that person will still come back at some point because they'll realize, hey, that one moment, help me find this other thing. I should go back to that one moment thing again, that empowerment flow. Cool happens. So yeah, really exciting to unpack it and talk about it, the three of us, but I know there's more to it than that. Obviously there's you know 100 hour training empowerment flow which is happening in May as well I think the end of May May 30th.

45:09 Yeah, 30th. May 30th, so basically beginning of June. But yeah, the this series isn't. And here we're going to do a couple more episodes on this. And the next one, I think the idea is to talk a little bit more about the the chakras, yeah.

45:21 Yeah, we go into the seven chakra system a lot during the class, OK? And I think that would be a cool 2nd episode. And I also think once you're empowered, you're that empowered to start connecting to more of you. So this is really like giving people the permission. This is kind of like step one to the class and step one to the experience.

45:39 Right. Like a prerequisite, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, thank you so much for tuning in, everyone and listening. If you have questions, you can obviously reach out to us at podcast@goingproyoga.com. And thanks Byron and Alyssa for contributing to this conversation. I think it's great to unfold this thing that's hard to talk about because it's like so different, but it's also kind of exciting at the same time.

46:04 So yeah, do you guys have any final thoughts before we wrap this up? I'm just thinking about if I was in outer space, Like and like what? How do you, how do you actually, like, move around in outer space? Like can you just push off of a wall or can you Can you literally like, I get pushing off a wall works, but what if there's no wall?

46:28 Can I just swim? Would that move me? No. You would need to have some sort of inertia or energy that's moving you, and first of all, if you're in outer space and you're not in a spaceship, you're dead. So. So there's a sandwich nearby, like just two arms lengths away, Like I'll never get it.

46:46 Everything depends. It is. Is the sandwich moving, or is it just still? It's moving. How is it moving? It's moving same speed as me. Like away in space. We're going, but not towards each other. No, I'll never get it. No, That's weird.

47:01 Yeah, you need. Something to be able to change your your your course directional. Base or anything? I don't know how that's relevant, but. But see a field of knowing that you know it. Oh, you've been there or something? OK, maybe in another life I.

47:14 Haven't been there, but I understand physics. You're not astrophysics, but. Well, I'm just grateful to be here. Thanks for having me. OK. Great. Awesome. That too. That too. Cool. Thanks. So we'll see you guys next episode. Possibly Alyssa?

47:32 Yeah, you never know. We're gonna have a talk. We'll see what happens, right? By the way, Chalkers, you don't need to know anything about Chalkers to TuneIn. To the next episode. Yeah, Natergy. Yeah, she has to do with human nature, yeah.

47:45 Cool. Yeah, sounds good. All right, well, if you guys are interested, let's TuneIn next week for we'll continue this conversation about empowerment flow, diving into a little bit more of the energy in the body and the potential energy in the body.

47:55 But you can call it chakras if that's resonates with you as well. Otherwise, have a beautiful day and we'll speak to you next week. Thanks Sir Michael. Thanks. All right. Before you go, let me just tell you about the Going proyoga.com platform O Right now you can go to goingroyogacom and check it out for free for seven days where you can actually learn more about yoga in the ways of alignment, queuing, sequencing, yoga, anatomy.

48:19 So that if you've done a 200 hour teacher training and you want to continue to learn, ractice and grow, this latform is definitely for you. So I definitely suggest checking it outgoingroyogacom right now. You can try it out for free for seven days.